YAMS

On October 20, 2016 at 4:38 PM, bfroberts said:

I've used it.  I didn't find it very strong in 6006, but admittedly all I tested was an 8 oz mason jar.  It does benefit from a long cure, and I only cured that one a few days.  It is good and strong in palm, and it is strong in my paraffin melts. I bought an 8oz to test with, and that is the extent of my testing so far. 

I use 4627 so I will give it a try and post the results.  Thanks 

On October 21, 2016 at 7:20 PM, Belinda said:

I've never used 4627 but I have read where some on here mix it with 4625. I mix 4630 with 4625 at a 50/50 ratio when I pour in clamshells. If I'm using molds then I use the same ratio or use a higher ratio of 4625 and I've even used 4625 alone in molds. Like bfroberts said you'll have to play around with it to get the results you want. I would think since 4627 is a softer wax than 4630 then you could mix it 50/50 or even a little higher with 4625 depending on what you're pouring them in.

Hope that helps!

Belinda, would you say that 4625 would work for both melts made in silicone molds as well as in clams?   I would prefer to buy one wax that works for both.  Thanks darling.

On 10/1/2016 at 8:13 PM, bfroberts said:

Wow...that is crazy!  I single wick the cube jar with 60 or 62z.  But I don't use your wax.  I use 6006.  I've never used 4627, but I was always under the impression it would wick smaller than 6006.  You learn something new every day!  I love Cranberry Marmalade, by the way.  Fruits are my favorites.  Not so much bakery, but straight fruits...I love 'em.  Good luck!

You are right about it being crazy.  It must have been that one FO that worked okay.  I double wicked it this way recently with Mac Apple and epic fail!!!!!    The flames were out of control and the soot don't even mention.  I will not be using two 60z again for double wicking.  

20 hours ago, Luci said:

I use a good many Candle Science fo--some for cp soap and others for candles. I normally don't buy the 1 oz but did get a few new ones during their recent 1 oz sale to put in 4625 pillars.  I've been testing banana nut bread and Black Sea but can't quite make up my mind whether to produce with these.  Anyone use these for candles.

 

Beach Linen is one of my favorites for candles, and I use this for my pillars that I embed with seashells.

Lucy, I just tried Black Sea (not burned yet) but the smell is amazing.   Great scent.  Not sure that I will be happy with the HT based on how they smell now but we will see.   

I decided to give tarts a try since it seems I am already making candles and tarts seem much easier than candles.  I use IGI 4627 for my candles.  Would you use this wax to make tarts also?   What wax do you recommend for tarts and melts?  I purchase my wax from Candle Science so I would prefer to stick to buying from there to save on shipping since I order a lot from them.  Thanks guys 

On 10/15/2016 at 11:07 AM, TallTayl said:

With my wax blends what I have figured out is the wax needs to be hot enough to fully dissolve the fragrance into the tiniest droplets possible and encapsulate those droplets within the smallest molecules of wax possible. My soy wax blend will form really big grains if it is too cool when adding FO and if it cools too slowly.

 

When my wax is slightly too cool  when I add the fragrance, the wax begins to form larger grains (you see a dull surface on the finished candle). Larger grains cannot suspend fragrance as neatly and tightly as smaller grains (shiny surface on finished candle).

 

The cold throw is different on the two identically formulated candles that were made at different temps. The dull, large wax grains smell more of the soy wax. The shiny topped small grains smell much more distinctly of the fragrance. HT seems better with the shiny topped one too, to my nose. It throws faster and more true to the FO. It is possible the FO is settling a bit in the cooler wax. 

 

I stir with with a rubber spatula for the first minute or so to really move the ingredients around. i quick cool my wax/fo blend in front of a big box fan in the pour pot while sirring periodically with the spatula to keep things well blended and quicken the cool of the whole pot. I pour when very cloudy, almost to the point of slush. If I wait too long the wax does not settle to a nice flat surface (my people don't seem to notice but I do).

 

if everything else was identical except for the temps at the start, YAMS, I would bet this is at least part of the cause. 

Talltayl this is a good way to pay attention to the appearance of my finished candles.  I will pay closer attention note to the finish of the top of my candles from here on.  Interesting how much I learn here daily   Thanks

1 hour ago, Trappeur said:

I was just going to ask you what wax you were using.....and you said it...4627.

 

Oh, I do 6% in all my candles.  You asked about Frasier Fir.

 

Trappeur

Frasier Fir smells so strong out of the bottle that it is doubtful that it would have such poor HT.  It has to be something I did wrong :-(.  Thanks Trappeur

1 hour ago, bfroberts said:

 

Have you given any of your candles to anyone else to test?  I cannot wrap my head around Fraser Fir not throwing in 4627.  I haven't used 4627, but I've put this FO in 6006, palm, 4630 and my tart blend which is 4625 and 4630, and it was a superstar in all of those waxes.  I cannot imagine it would not throw in 4627.  Have you tried other wick types?  I use HTP's in 4630.  I would think they would work well in 4627, too.

 

By the way, I was just looking over Trappeurs list, and the Sweet Orange & Chili Pepper is a nose hair burner for me.  That might be a good one to try also.  

BFRoberts,

That's the way I felt too about Frasier Fir.   That's why I think it is something I did differently because I have gotten very strong HT with other less potent fragrances.....  I only  added 9% FO and I mostly use 11% with my wax but I doubt that 9% would make such a difference for the negative.   I see a lot of you use even 6% with this wax and the HT reviews are great.    That's what one of the giveaways for me because I couldn't believe this FO wouldn't throw well.   I haven't tried other wicks except for the LX series.  I have read so much good stuff about Zinc that I decided to stick with it and work with it.   I hear HTPs curve a bit??   

15 minutes ago, Flicker said:

Since this has not been asked, what jar are you using? If not a common jar, what is the exact diameter where the jar is widest from side to side?
How much scent are you adding to what amount of wax? Is that by weight or liquid measure?
What wick are you using? Size and series?

Are you adding anything other than the 4627?
How long did you cure the candles?

 

All of this can make a big difference. I worked with this wax for nearly 15 years in my prior job. Maybe I can help

Good questions Flicker.  

• I use two types of jars:  Libby Status Jars 3 1/4" diameter and The Dollar Tree Square Jars 3 1/2" diameter but when measured corner to corner is approximately 4" .  If you have any recommendations for this jar it would be helpful.. So far it's a headache. 
• I am using approximately 9% FO (at least with the ones that didn't get a HT on) for the ones that have worked for me in the past I have added 11% and I got an excellent HT.  
• U measure by weight (I use my digital kitchen scale which is very exact).
• I use Zinc Wicks. For the 3/14" Libby Status Jars I use a 60 zinc wick.  It has always worked except for these three batches that I made (CS-Blue Spruce, CS-Oakmoss and Amber, CS - Brown Sugar & Fig Type) .  For the square jars, I am still trying to figure out the right wick size.   I either under wick or over wick and I believe its because of the corner to corner square shape of the jar that it is much more difficult to wick.  
• I do not add anything else to the 4627.
• I cured them for about 7 days (couldn't resist :-))
• I heat my wax to 195 degrees.  Add FO at 185 degrees.  Stir for 2 minutes and pour right after. 

Wow!!!  You have lots of years using 4627!  Hopefully you can help.   It is said that it can hold up to 12%. What are your thoughts on that?  I switched from soy 464 to 4627 because I read the HT is superior and I am a sucker for strong smelling candles.  Flicker, any suggestions you have for me will be greatly appreciated.  

On 10/15/2016 at 6:47 PM, birdcharm said:

I think some soy waxes do not mix well with beeswax.  I did notice that mentioned on a website somewhere, for instance, for some Golden Blends.  I wonder also if you're wishing to soften a parasoy blend just a bit, if it could help to add a little straight soy?  That might be something worth checking out.  Yams ... anything in candle making is never a waste imo ... that's one thing I adore about it ... you can usually melt things back down, use the wax for chunk candles, or burn them in the winter to keep warm.     When you're first starting out, and even when you're not first starting, often times, everything is an experiment until you've come up with some solid techniques & recipes and have tested them thoroughly, which is usually, at least for me, after several tries and a few failed attempts!

 

Birdcharm, you think I should attempt to to add a little straight soy to my 4627 Blend?   If so, what's the norm for blending?  What percentage? Are the instructions on properly blending?  Thanks a bunch

On 10/15/2016 at 11:07 AM, TallTayl said:

With my wax blends what I have figured out is the wax needs to be hot enough to fully dissolve the fragrance into the tiniest droplets possible and encapsulate those droplets within the smallest molecules of wax possible. My soy wax blend will form really big grains if it is too cool when adding FO and if it cools too slowly.

 

When my wax is slightly too cool  when I add the fragrance, the wax begins to form larger grains (you see a dull surface on the finished candle). Larger grains cannot suspend fragrance as neatly and tightly as smaller grains (shiny surface on finished candle).

 

The cold throw is different on the two identically formulated candles that were made at different temps. The dull, large wax grains smell more of the soy wax. The shiny topped small grains smell much more distinctly of the fragrance. HT seems better with the shiny topped one too, to my nose. It throws faster and more true to the FO. It is possible the FO is settling a bit in the cooler wax. 

 

I stir with with a rubber spatula for the first minute or so to really move the ingredients around. i quick cool my wax/fo blend in front of a big box fan in the pour pot while sirring periodically with the spatula to keep things well blended and quicken the cool of the whole pot. I pour when very cloudy, almost to the point of slush. If I wait too long the wax does not settle to a nice flat surface (my people don't seem to notice but I do).

 

if everything else was identical except for the temps at the start, YAMS, I would bet this is at least part of the cause. 

Interesting TallTayl, the way you've been able to figure out what works and that you pour at a very cloudy point.  I use 4627 which I have read that one should pour at around 185 degrees.   Yes, the only thing I did different was to transfer my wax from the heating pot to a Pyrex cup and then added the FO.  I am assuming since my house is so cold all the time, that the temperature dropped to lower than an optimal point.   Thanks for this information.  I learn so much from you guys.   

14 hours ago, Trappeur said:

In  464 these are super throwers:

Apple Harvest

Apple Clover

Apple Maple Bourbon 

Black Raspberry Vanilla - ORDERED

Christmas Hearth - READY TO TEST

Coriander and Tonka - ORDERED

Cranberry Marmalade - READY TO TEST

Frasier Fir - DIDN'T WORK TO WELL AT 6% - WHAT % DO YOU USE

Fresh Coffee

Gardenia

Hazelnut Coffee

Hollyberry

Honey Dew Melon

Honeysuckle - READY TO TEST 

Lavender 

Lemon Verbena

Mac Apple - MY FAVORITE OF ALL FOs SO FAR!!!!!!!!! 

Mistletoe - ORDERED 

Mulled Cider & Chestnuts

Orange Chili Pepper

Peach Nectar

Pumpkin Pie

Strawberry Shortcake

Vanilla Hazelnut

 

Trappeur

 

 

Hi Trappeur.   I am glad you mentioned these.  See my notes next to some of the names you provided.   The rest I will order to sample them also.  This is very helpful.  I use 4627 wax but I am sure they are good performers and may also work well on mine. Thanks a million!!! Very helpful 

14 hours ago, bfroberts said:

So many.  Apple Maple Bourbon, Snickerdoodle, Fraser Fir, Spring Rain, Violet Lime, Black Currant Tea, Pink Magnolia Blossom, Cotton Tree, Christmas Hearth, and Vanilla Hazelnut are my current favorites.  I could go on and on.  They have so many great ones.

Thanks BFRoberts.   I already tried Frasier Fir at 6% and the HT is not very good.  I will order another sample and increase the FO%.  I also have Christmas Hearth and will make it this week.  Thanks for the input.  I took note of all the ones you listed.  

I have developed an enormous trust for candle science FOs.  What do most of you consider to be staple FOs from them?  I know for sure I have a three that I will make mine: Mcintosh Apple, Mediterranean Fig and Amber Noir some of mine. Which ones are great performers for you? Strong scented? Thanks guys 

Has anyone tried Havana FO from The Flaming Candle? I ordered a sample size and I am wondering if it is a strong FO.   I live in Miami and I am sure it could be a hit with friends and family if it were a nice scent.  

Please pardon the ignorant question but I am new to candles and sort... What is the difference between melts and tarts?  I go online and see the pictures look the same?  

22 hours ago, birdcharm said:

In some ways, other possibly or not possibly at all about when to add the scent (except, I wouldn't add it while wax is still on a heat source thinking that it may burn off, but I could be wrong), I think the stirring is really a main component, as mentioned by moonshine. 

 

I've seen "how to" (not) videos on youtube showing adding scent -- first, they always pour it like they're pouring a drink and swishing a stick through the wax for a minute -- that's not how to add scent when making candles (it makes me so mad to see them teaching people that!!)  My old books say to add scent a drop at at time!!!  Now, I don't seem to have the patience for that entirely, but I do add it slowly, while stirring -- with a SPOON, not a stick -- in circles, in figure eights, back & forth -- and again before I pour.  I really think that incorporating the scent into the wax has a lot to do with all of this -- also, with paraffin or blends, the use (not overuse, which can have an opposite effect), of the correct vybar (there are two types, based on meltpoint of the wax), can help too. 

 

That's my two-cents anyway!

 

Interesting point Birdcharm.  I don't take my time to add the FO.   I don't do it slowly.  I do take the time to stir.  Back and forth and in circles for about two minutes with a spoon.  Question:  Vybar, I have seen comments on this additive before.  What does it help with?  Does it actually impact the HT?  Thanks for the great suggestions.   

Other than the HT what are other signs that one is using too much FO? 

20 hours ago, moonshine said:

Are you using the same exact method as the ones you did have good throw with?

:same amount of FO and cure time?

Did these FOs all come from the same supplier?

what type of wax are you using....I can only speak for soy as I am newer in parasoy but the soy will test your limits with throw, there are some that just don't work and I have found in my experience that many come from the the same supplier 

 

Moonshine, I am doing everything the same except that before I added the Dye and FO while in the heating device.  The last batch I transfered the wax to a mixing cup (Pyrex) and added the FO there. I am thinking that may be the problem.  The temperature probably goes too low by the time I add the FO.  

3 hours ago, debratant said:

This link is EXCELLENT from Peaks.  I use this calculator all the time.

 

http://www.candletech.com/candle-making/tips-and-tricks/handy-calculators/calculate-wax-weight-container-candle/

 

If I have any wax left over in my pour pot....I pour it into little plastic dixie cups.  Just in case I need to do a repour the next day...I simply cut a slit in the cup

and rip it away from the wax and remelt that.  If I have more of that left...I make tea lights for myself instead of throwing it out.

 

I heat my 4627 to 190....add my color and uv....stir...take it off the heat and add my FO around 185 or so and as soon as it's stirred I pour.

I do not use the max load that this wax holds 12% when doing jars, because it affects the burn.  I would start at 6%.

 

What is the diameter of your jar, and what size wick are you using?  

 

 

Debratant, I've been adding 9 or 10% for the most part perhaps I should try lower next time.  I use two jars.  A status jar.  I believe is 3" and the Dollar Tree square jars that are 3 1/4" diameter but when you measure corner to corner not across its 4".  I am using 60-24-18 zinc.  

3 hours ago, bfroberts said:

 

CS MacApple is a great FO that I rely on when testing something new. 

I only add FO on the heat source for pouring purposes.  There is no difference in the HT of the finished candle whether I add it on the heat or off.  Just helps keep my wax temps where I need them to be for pouring.

 

To figure out how much wax your jar holds weigh your jar empty then weigh it again full and the difference is the amount of wax + FO you need to fill that one jar.  Multiply by however many jars you've got and there ya go.

BFRoberts I am sure what you mean is that it doesn't affect it because when you are the FObthebeax temperature is still optimal. I think my problem with that process  is that I believe that by the time I add the FO after transferring the wax to the mixing container the temperature has already dropped considerably.  It doesn't help that I use a regular thermometer that takes a while to reach the temperature reading.  Also that my house is always freezing.  Great idea for determining how much for as many jars as I want to make.  Thanks 

30 minutes ago, Jcandleattic said:

Melted/liquid wax weighs the same as it does when it's solid - you should always weigh your wax. You can scoop it and put it on some wax paper to weigh it or in a jar or in your pour pot. 

Ohhhhhhhh.  That I didn't know.  I thought it weighed different You Just made  my life soooooo much easier.  Thank you 

7 hours ago, Jcandleattic said:

No, not always, but it can be an indicator. Some wicks are just prone to mushrooming, such as zincs. Sometimes it points to too high a % of FO added, or other additives. 

I use zinc wicks 

2 minutes ago, Moonstar said:

where did you get a respirator ? I need to get one, plus I never use FO when my sons  home.

I bought it online.  Recommended by other Resin artists.  They don't have to be super expensive just need to have the right system.  I got it from Amazon.  I can take a picture when I get home tonight and send it. 

6 hours ago, Jcandleattic said:

How saturated is your house with the scents? You could have what we call in the industry "candle nose" where you are so surrounded by scent that you just can't smell it anymore. 

I would do as others suggested, and give them to someone to test throw for you, or air out the house, get away from the scents for a day or two, something, and that will probably help. 

Not too saturated since I don't mass produce.  But I know what you mean. Sometimes I don't know what I am smelling anymore.  Lol.  I have given it to my sister in law and my friend and they also don't smell much.  I've also moved them from the general open space in my house to my craft room and nothing.  

6 hours ago, Jcandleattic said:

The people working in the lab, actually creating the scents/blends I am sure wear respirators the whole time, and work in formulas and recipes to get the scents correct, and not rely on their noses to get the scents correct. 

6 hours ago, moonshine said:

Lol - I think we were

 

I would think labs would have to for safety reasons as well- I never thought about it for many years and when I read about it on here a light bulb went off ....that's slot of particles to breathe when making pounds at a time 

even though data safety sheets say it's not necessary just to ventilate the room I had never did that either....started in my kitchen with no windows open and poured all day long.....now I won't pour unless everyone is gone and I lock myself in the storage room - it doesn't travel out much but I open the door wall if I smell it leak into the rest of the basement plus I have a UV light on the furnace that's supposed to zap dust and gases so hopefully that helps as well  

 

The other day I thought of sniffing coffee beans to see it would help with the candle nose.  Lol.  I know they do that when you're testing Perfumes.  When you want to smell a different fragrance it's supposed to eliminate the previous scent. I wonder if that would work?   Ibhave a respirator mask that I HAVE to use while pouring resin ( I create resin jewelry) but I hate to use it and I want to avoid it unless I have to.  What do you guys think of the coffee beans???