strugglebrother

On 1/14/2021 at 12:07 PM, estoy said:

hey, i have a primo 100 melter and am looking to start mixing fragrance oil directly in the soy wax we use. do you run into issue with cleaning out the fragrance between batches, where the fragrances are mingling between scents? thanks so much. i hope the issues with your melter have been cleared up. 

The issues with the melter persists, it's painfully slow to heat up wax in. It's not the melter they advertise it to be in my opinion. But it works when the wax is melted. 

Anyway, it works fine to blend the fragrance in it. I make sure to wipe it after with paper towels and if I really want to clean it from time to time I tilt it completely on the side and heatgun the sides and then wipe with rubbing alcohol after.

If there is a little left, it will not be enough to scent the next batch. I use dye in it too, works just fine so you should be good. It's a time saver to have it scented in the melter. Good luck!

19 minutes ago, Nicm said:

Yes they drip then split down the centre I’m currently using 0.5 eco 

wick 

Why aren't you using paraffin or palm wax? Soy and other brittle natural waxes will never work? What's your aim?

On 9/21/2020 at 6:46 PM, NightLight said:

Well just Received a new bottle of Blue Spruce and it’s not the same. This was one of my favorites.

I actually use a bit of Blue Spruce in a blend, I thought they didn't have the nerve to actually touch one of their all time bestsellers.. All of their other scents I have completely given up on last year.

In what way did Blue Spruce change?

It started with their change in Golden Brand waxes, it got worse when they tried to cater to soaping with their candle fragrances and the big nail in the coffin was the "clean scent" strategy plus only carrying two wick series (I'm not even counting LX as a decent wick tbh).

I could also mention their drama with their white and black straight sided tumblers that was going on for about a year or two.

It's a tough market out there now, especially when many homemakers outdoor markets closed due to Covid. A huge client base of Candlescience stopped buying materials for probably 6 months.

Candlescience needs to survive and you survive with marketing tricks. How to stand out against their other competition?

My bet is that reformulations needed to be done to cut costs, then this idea came to place with the clean scents along with it. People hate reformulations as it breaks their long tested formulas, so you need an excuse and a good one that people can't argue with. Maybe they removed some bad stuff, who knows until you run their scents through a lab test. I would still not drink them and I would just not take their word for it.


Look how they phrase their press release with instructions to their customers and advice like this

"Look carefully at the SDS sheets provided by the fragrance manufacturer or supplier. Are they all the same? If so, take caution. Suppliers are required to do this work and do it correctly. If you come across this, we encourage you to ask your supplier more questions before purchasing."

I'm always sceptical when you have to downplay your competitors like this, if your product is good enough you shouldn't have to.

These days companies have to pretend that they run a charity business when in reality they don't. Press releases with statements become more important than the actual product, and in reality, there is still very little transparency.

Not saying that good intentions might be there for some but maybe I'm just old and jaded as I have seen it so many times now .

Just now, Marisa11 said:

Which wicks did that for you? I’ve been doing a lot of wickless testing. I didn’t notice that happening with HTP, PREMIER 700, or LX I tested recently that were wicked but I didn’t have a great HT I need to just stop with the citrus scents already.  Thanks for the info that is good to know that can happen Towards the end. I am planning on making some wicked testers with CDN, Paper Core, and zinc since those came out with a good HT in a wickless test so now I want to see side by side. 

I had the best throw with CD and ECO wicks but they both suicided themselves at the end of the candle. I spoke directly to Calwax about it and they had the best results with CD wicks all around so I started there and thought I move over to HTP and ECO as they are kind of similar, at least HTP. HTP didn't give me sufficient throw, could be container and FO combo also.

I need to test more, I like the wax somehow but got stuck and then other things came in between. Feel free to DM me if you find anything and I can test the same here too!

We had great hot throw with 6-8% fragrance load in this wax when we tested a few fragrances.

The problem we had was that the wicks at the end of the candle self-trimmed so much that they die at the last 20% of the candle. Has anyone else had this problem?

To prevent this we tried CDN wicks but they didn't give as much throw as we wanted.

9 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

I think we all need to change terminology. Diluted implies that a company received a keg of FO, and adds something to it to stretch the FO.  This is really not the case.  

 

Retail available fragrances vary in their percentages of deluents. A deluent is a liquid used to change the concentration. “Pure” aromachemicals are not readily available to us, especially in small amounts (less than kegs) and are hella expensive. Likewise, an awful lot of powders, such as vanillin would be impossible to use in candles without a deluent to melt it into a misceable liquid that will blend into wax without separating out. To keep the price points favorable, Aromachemicals used in candle/soap fragrances are diluted with typically one of three deluents: DEP-Diethyl Phthalates, DOA-Dioctyl Adipate or IPM-Isopropyl Myristate. Save On Scents tackles this by offering different concentrations. The fragrance labs I work with also can varythe deluents of my choice to make the fragrance work as it needs to.

 

Since phthalates fell out of favor, DOA took the lead. Soy users demanded more more more fragrance in that wax, so wax makers add more additives to hold more more more of these deluents And still look like what their customers want. It is a vicious cycle. Most wax does not need that much fragrance. More typically causes issues that we fight by adding beeswax, paraffin, soy or palm in many combos.

 

WRT Bulk Apothecary scents, they have used lebermuth as the compounder of their Fragrances, just as many of us use different labs. It does not mean the BA scent is exactly the same as the one from Lebermth's catalog.  Fragrances use different recipes (codes) for different customers.  One painful example was Egyptian Dragon. I had an original from Lebermuth that I loved and only needed a couple of pounds later.  I trusted the hive and bought from BA. It was an entirely different fragrance from the one in Lebermuth's catalog. I ended up having to buy a keg to get the fragrance I needed from my own lab so I owned the code and did not waste so much time and materials in the future.

Very good summary of this...

One more great reason to buy straight from the fragrance houses...

Oil is freshly made to order, it doesn't sit on a shelf for possibly up to a year....

Oil is exactly the same as it was, fragrance houses do not reformulate without being instructed to do so from their customers.. Only retailers do that, and they do it frequently and they discontinue

Downside, you have to buy in 25/lb quantities.

Bad restaurants serve 50 mediocre dishes... Good ones serve 7-10 excellent ones

48 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

@strugglebrother to the rescue! He phoned wick it this morning. He will comment here momentarily. 
 

we will archive the precision wicking charts for everyone here also. 

Yes, I spoke to the owner Joe Blythe this morning. They will be taking over all of Precision Wicking's inventory of wicks, machines, tabs and priming wax.

Wickit  will continue to have 3,000 as a minimum order. Very happy to hear this as we ordered from Precision and they had some wicks that Wicks Unlimited doesn't carry.

Wicks Unlimited has 10,000 as a minimum order, I have tried to work with them on smaller orders than that but they will not fulfil less than that. Wicks Unlimited do have a great team and I love working with them, sometimes we can order 10,000, but not always.

On 10/22/2020 at 8:49 PM, TallTayl said:

@strugglebrother got any advice here? 

@MilosCandles

A full pallet is usually 40 cases so that should bring your shipping down to $15 per case. If you only buy 9 cases the pallet shipping might not give you the best shipping price.

If you are able to buy one pallet per year instead of 4 shipments a year you should save some money. And you know that you have consistent wax for a full year.

Another factor is where you are buying from, sometimes its actually cheaper to have one pallet shipped across the whole country than buying from a distributor with a higher price closer to you. It's a bit of a email and phone game to try and find where to buy from. IGI's main west coast distributor, which is closer to me, is more expensive than shipping a pallet from the IGI east coast distributor across the country.

Call the distributor you are buying from and ask them if they can tailor a freight quote for you, sometimes those calculators they use on the website doesn't give you the correct / best price.

Remember that shops like Candlescience, Bulk Apothecary etc, those shops are not ment for serious candle makers who want to make a living on making candles, they are ment to work as a starting point and for hobbyists. You deal with highly inflated prices, watered down fragrance oils, inconsistent supply and higher shipping prices. When you can start moving away from them your profit will increase.

What wax are you buying, from what store and where do you live?

CSN7 wicks now popped up at CS again... 

CDN and CSN isn't the same wick.

I would grab so you have for another year and start testing in the meantime, otherwise you can always order from the UK (they also stock CSN11).

Stock of CSN9 have popped up again at CS, grab what you can.....

I just grabbed a thousand CSN7... 

But I need CSN9, will have to get bigger amount from one of the main manufacturers....

Would have been nice with a warning CS, let your good old clients who poured money into your register for years be able to stock up before you pull everything. CSN is not available from anywhere else if they don't drop that US license and let others sell it in quantities under 5000.

Are they closing shop? Their main focus is candles and they only stock 3 wick series?

1 hour ago, NightLight said:

I believe only accublend makes the wax. They would supply cal wax and candles and supplies. This is a trade name, so you can’t just label coco83. Calwax gets from accublend that’s their distributo. Accublend says if you buy direct you have to purchase large quantities.

C&S Easybeads is the same as Coco83 in beads form, Accu Blend makes this wax (it isn't vegan)
C&S Coconut Slab Wax is made by CalWax (if I remember right this has paraffin + soy in it and is vegan)


Calwax and AccuBlend are competing with their own different blends of coconut waxes, they aren't helping each other with distribution. Calwax uses the brand name Ceda-Serica to promote their hybrid waxes.

Accu-Blend Coco83 have changed formula several times, many reports about it on this forum.

More info about the two blends here: 

On 2/27/2020 at 3:06 PM, TallTayl said:

you may want to ask @strugglebrother about the testing services at places he tried. 

Yes, feel free to PM me if you want any info!

8 minutes ago, BusyBee said:

Lab & Co and The Wooden Wick Co are under Dayna Decker Corp.  She also owns many other brands.  WoodWick Candle is owned by Newell Brands, which owns Yankee Candle.

 

Here is article on Dayna Decker.

https://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/lawsuit/botanika-candles-recalled-lumetique.html

It was manufactured by private-label manufacturer in Glendale now called Modern Candles.  They had to change their name also after that law suits. 

Yeah that sounds like a huge recall... I have been to Modern Candle previously, yeah they are a big private label manufacturer here in Los Angeles. Interesting and thanks for the link.

33 minutes ago, BusyBee said:

I am sorry to hear that you are going thru hard times.  Was it whole box that you have problem? 

 

Even other big companies had gone thru difficult times at their beginning.  Best example would be Lab & Oil Co.  They had to shut down their first candle company because their candles were blowing up.  Look at them.  They are back stronger than before.  WoodWick Company is another.  Their first candles had many problem of staying lit.  Look who owns them now.

 

If we we can control this kind of defects, then it would be nice.  But, this is something that we cannot control 100%.  

I am just hoping that you can turn this into a showcase where you can show the world how good your customer service skills are.

 

*I really want to see you succeed in this market.  👍

Hi there,

Are you referring to The Lab and Co or another company? I think Lab and Co and WoodWick are the same company?

May I ask where you heard that their candles were blowing up? Just curious if the info is out there somewhere...

1 hour ago, CaptnKush said:

Oh, you just have the melting pot unit that you empty into a pouring pitcher. I thought you had the automated one that dispenses the fragrance oil into the pouring wand as you are filling jars.

The one you are referring to is the Rolls Royce of candle melters. The Mark VIII. It mixes both fragrance and dye on the spot. My aim is to get one, one day!

The Semi Elite is the one I wished I bought instead of the Primo melter. Coogar seem to have so much better support also.

I would just mix the fragrance in the Semi Elite. Mixing it in the pouring pitcher would take a lot of time if you a doing bigger batches and kind of defeats the purpose of having a huge melter.

I heat up 50 or 100lb of wax in my Primo, then mix the fragrance in the primo and pour away. I clean out the melter for the next batch when done and before the wax hardens.

Apart from CSN I have had very good results with Wedo V Series wicks!

On 11/12/2019 at 5:07 PM, ErronB said:

I've been using this wax for a few months now and I love it, but due to the inconsistency with thin wooden wicks I gotta switch to regular wicks.

 

I've used HTP and LX plenty before but I've never managed to get the 'self-trimming' to work like I've heard about. Whenever I'd light the candle for the 2nd time without trimming I'd get a high smoking flame.

 

Is mushrooming causing this to happen? I don't get much with HTP but a fair bit with LX. 

 

I have to use quite a high FO load (but not max) because my fragrances are light, but just wondered if there was anything else I've overlooked before dropping the amount. I'm not using dye right now and the melt pools are a tad under what I'm shooting for so I don't think they're overwicked. In a 8oz tin I'm using HTP 83 / 93, and LX 18 / 20 / 22.

 

Any tips would be much appreciated before I go wasting a bunch more supplies playing with this whole self-trimming thing lol.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Try a smaller wick, this wax should throw for you without having to overwick. I would try HTP72 or 73 or LX 16...

If your flames are too big I suspect you are wicking too big...

ECO wicks could actually do a really good job in this wax with certain jars also... Eco 2 to 6

2 hours ago, TallTayl said:

the one I'm using now is from Aromahaven/Rustic Escentuals. Have not had any trouble with it.

I'm using Rustic Escentuals also with good results and also liquid dyes from General Wax / Candlemakingsupplies.net

I have heard that French Color are making good liquid dyes but I haven't had the chance to try them... http://www.frenchcolor.com/candles-air-care/

1 hour ago, TallTayl said:

Wholesale supplies plus offers insurance.

 

eta as does indie business network

Have you had any experience with the insurance that WSP is backing?

My benefits from being a member previously in Soapguild has been 0 (except having them just to be able to get the insurance)

2 hours ago, Forrest said:

Yes it does. It is only 30% soy so you wouldn't expect it to need soy like cure times, but it does.

Can't it just be that different room temperatures when you are burning these candles that make them perform differently. Cold weather vs warm weather?

On 8/14/2017 at 11:44 AM, Flicker said:

Before adding steric, I'd try another wax that is harder and smaller wicks.

There is no wax that throws so well as 4627 unfortunately... Making it harder and whiter but keeping it's properties would be amazing...

5 hours ago, TallTayl said:

Another thing just occurred to me. Wickectomy makes it difficult to stick a real wick. The jar is slick. 

I do it but only for testing purposes, its impossible to get a wick sticker or any type of glue to stick to the bottom again as, its as you say slick..

I core the wick out and insert a new one without glue and heat gun it together... But that's only while wick testing.

You could use a bigger wick clip, one that is almost as big as the bottom of the jar. Then it would hold the wick more stable, but there is more wax to core out  So you might as well then carve out all the wax and remelt. Not sure if the cure cycle starts again then.. All solutions seem to lean back to a catch 22

Does 6006 change that much over time. Is it mostly soy or paraffin in it? I can't remember the ratio but if I remember its 70/30 or 30/70?

Is "Crisco" something that is still considered to be helping with wetspots?

It seemed to be something that was recommended about 10 years ago for eliminating this but since then I haven't heard much about it in candle making. I did try it a couple of years ago but can't remember the results from it.