Wicking 4627 in big metered mason jar - regular mouth

[HorseScentS]

I went to Hobby Lobby today, and since the jars are not on sale this weekend, I decided to skip the expensive Libbey Vibe and Cylinder jars I wanted to try and just buy two of the big metered Ball mason jars to experiment with, so I won't have to buy a whole case to try them in the future.

I don't know what the official size is because they don't come in a box, but they are the same diameter and rounded square shape as the 16 oz Ball Elite jars only much taller. The fill line just below where the shoulder starts to curve says 3 Cups or 24 oz. http://shop.hobbylobby.com/products/mason-jar-with-cap-381715/ I think it's the Quart mason or 32 oz mason. I can't find any threads or comments about it when searching the forum.

I did not have any success trying to wick 4627 in the 16 oz Ball Elite jar, which has a wide mouth, so I decided to try the regular mouth Ball metered mason jar. I hope I made the right decision, but I don't know.

Since the HTP-83 wick works perfect in the jewel cut 8 oz jelly jar, I'm thinking of trying an HTP-104 in this tall mason jar. If that gets too hot, I'll try an HTP-93. I'll use 8% of Peak Peppermint Kiss and leave it white so I won't have to worry about the dye affecting the burn. Does anybody have any helpful tips about this jar? It will take about 1-1/3 lbs of wax/FO mixture to fill line, and I hate to waste that much wax, but i really like the way this jar looks. I like the wide mouth even better, but I thought I would have the same problems with it that I had with the 16 oz Ball Elite jar.

Maybe I'll start with the HTP-93 wick first...or maybe I'll do Peak's Birthday Cake instead, which is a bit heavier, and make one jar with an HTP-104 and the other with an HTP-105. I hate wrestling with all these decisions before starting!!! ARGGGGHHHHHH :pI guess it's just better to start in the middle with the HTP-104 and then wick up or down from there depending on how it burns.

Okay, I'm off to buy more paper towels... will post pics tomorrow.

Edited June 16, 2012 by HorsescentS

[HorseScentS]

I had to rig up a way to hold my wicks because they're too short for this Quart mason jar. I set an upside down lid rim on top of the jar, then I made a 1/8" wide slit in the bottom of a 5 oz Dixie cup, then I used tweezers to reach through the slit to grab the wick and pull it inside the Dixie cup where I clamped it with a clothespin. It was tricky! I had to pull the wick gently because I only used Tacky Wax to attach it to the bottom of the jar for this test.

I only used 1 lb of wax/FO mixture because I really just want to see what the wick does lower down in the jar. I decided to try HTP-105 wick first, in 4627 with 8% Peak's Creme Brulee, and no dye.

Edited June 17, 2012 by HorsescentS

[HorseScentS]

I'm testing now, and already getting a nice HT after 15 minutes. The flame is nice with some flickering, and the neck of the jar is quite warm. I love the look of this jar filled with white wax. Will post again at the end of the burn session, so about 3-1/2 hours, if nothing dramatic happens.

Edited June 17, 2012 by HorsescentS

[HorseScentS]

Dagnabbit! It's tunneling and the flame is drowning, so I'm going to have to wick up. There's 1/4" to 1/2" of wax all the way around the MP even though the wax level is an inch below the fill line. The next size up is HTP-1212, which might not be big enough, and I don't have the one above that, which is HTP-1312, so I'm going all the way up to the HTP-126 and I pray it will not smoke like a chimney.

On second thought, I think I'll try the HTP-1212 first. I finally found a forum post by someone who wicks soy in the Quart mason with HTP-1212, and maybe the viscosity of 4627 paraffin is similar to that of soy.

I don't know if I can double wick this jar since the neck is so small, but maybe I can also try two HTP-83's close together. I'm disappointed because I was hoping the narrow neck of this jar would trap enough heat so I could single wick the 4627 in it.

Edited June 17, 2012 by HorsescentS

[Holly]

I have a feeling since it is not the wide mouth, drowning flames may be more likely to happen is this jar. If you had a wide mouth one, that would be a great comparison....to see if the drowning flames is indeed caused by the smaller opening. Is Peak's Birthday Cake pretty easy for you to wick in that wax normally?

[HorseScentS]

I have a feeling since it is not the wide mouth, drowning flames may be more likely to happen is this jar. If you had a wide mouth one, that would be a great comparison....to see if the drowning flames is indeed caused by the smaller opening. Is Peak's Birthday Cake pretty easy for you to wick in that wax normally?

Yes, Peak's Birthday Cake is easy to wick at 8% in an 8 oz jelly jar with HTP-83. I was not able to wick Peak's Birthday Cake in the 16 oz Ball Elite jar which is the same diameter and shape as the Quart mason, but much shorter and has a wide mouth. The wide mouth didn't help at all on that jar.

[Holly]

Yes, Peak's Birthday Cake is easy to wick at 8% in an 8 oz jelly jar with HTP-83. I was not able to wick Peak's Birthday Cake in the 16 oz Ball Elite jar which is the same diameter and shape as the Quart mason, but much shorter and has a wide mouth. The wide mouth didn't help at all on that jar.

It could be the curved neck issue then. I find that straight sided jars are always easier....better airflow. I hope you can get it to work. I wonder how another fragrance would do.

[HorseScentS]

It could be the curved neck issue then. I find that straight sided jars are always easier....better airflow. I hope you can get it to work. I wonder how another fragrance would do.

Actually, I decided to use Peak's Creme Brulee for this test instead of Peppermint Kiss or Birthday Cake, so I'm burning the Creme Brulee right now. Creme Brulee is easy to wick, in the 8 oz jelly jar or the Libbey Elemental jar with HTP-83.

People seem to have great results wicking 4627 in the 3" diameter 8 oz square mason, which has a small neck too like the Quart Mason. They use HTP-104, 105, and sometimes 1212 for a really heavy FO.

I was hoping the curved neck would help the HT.

On the other hand, I've found my flame dances around a lot in the straight-sided Dollar Tree status jar. It's so confusing. But thanks so much for your help, and you might be right.

I think Trappeur is the one who posted that he wicks his Quart mason soy candles with HTP-1212, but I don't know if he uses the regular mouth or the wide mouth jar.

Edited June 17, 2012 by HorsescentS

[HorseScentS]

The Quart mason is about 4 inches wide and this is how it looked after the 2nd burn, which was 6 hours, with the HTP-1212. I don't have a 1312, and anyway I believe the HTP-126 is bigger and hotter than the 1212 or the 1312 in spite of what many charts say, so I switched to the 126. The 126 has been burning nicely for 2 hours with no smoke, and I'm really happy about that. It looks like it might get an FMP by the end of this burn, so I'll let it go another 2 hours and then post the results. If it doesn't work, I'll have to order the 1312 and some CD's to try.

[SliverOfWax]

I never had luck with tall jars like that. They chimneyed on me.

Like Holly said, the neck is too small. You won't get enough air to keep the thing burning.

Edited June 18, 2012 by SliverOfWax

[HorseScentS]

I never had luck with tall jars like that. They chimneyed on me.

Like Holly said, the neck is too small. You won't get enough air to keep the thing burning.

Oh, darn! I love this jar! If I try the wide mouth quart mason will it work any better?

I don't understand how people can burn tea lights in the bottom of these jars, but we can't keep a flame going in them.

Edited June 18, 2012 by HorsescentS

[HorseScentS]

Update: Sorry, no pics this time, but I'm going to end this four-hour burn session in about 15 minutes, and I almost got an FMP this time. The hangup is only about 1/16" thick at most, and on some parts of the jar it's just a transparent film. I'll definitely get a FMP next time. The flame has been really nice! It did not drown or get too small, and it didn't dance wildly or smoke. The top of the jar is pretty warm, though.

[HorseScentS]

Update: I was wrong about the jar being 4" wide, it's only 3-1/2" wide, so I'm ending a burn test after 3-1/2 hours and there's still a thin film of wax hangup on the jar, not the FMP I was hoping for. The HTP-126 is burning beautifully! No smoke, with a nice 3/4" to 1" flame that flickers gently. I'm not satisfied with the HT, but I may have candle nose, or it may be because I have a window unit AC and a fan going, although I put the candle out of the drafts in a bathroom with the door open. I'm wondering if cutting back on the FO from 1.3 oz p.p. to 1.2 oz p.p. would help both the HT and the FMP problem, so I'll make another candle with 1.2 oz FO p.p. and an HTP-126 wick.

[HorseScentS]

Final test result, good news and bad news: The wax level is just below the 2 Cup marker, and I was right that the thick glass and smaller opening with the shoulder trapped enough heat to finally get an FMP in that jar, but Sliver was right about the chimney effect. It was burning beautifully during all these tests, but finally after burning for several hours with a wonderful slightly flickering flame and a good HT, the flame was drawn up into a thin needle of fire almost to the neck of the jar. It just kept getting worse, so I have to abandon that jar.

I might try the wide mouth Quart mason, but I'm afraid it won't trap enough heat for a FMP with a single wick.

[Holly]

Final test result, good news and bad news: The wax level is just below the 2 Cup marker, and I was right that the thick glass and smaller opening with the shoulder trapped enough heat to finally get an FMP in that jar, but Sliver was right about the chimney effect. It was burning beautifully during all these tests, but finally after burning for several hours with a wonderful slightly flickering flame and a good HT, the flame was drawn up into a thin needle of fire almost to the neck of the jar. It just kept getting worse, so I have to abandon that jar.

I might try the wide mouth Quart mason, but I'm afraid it won't trap enough heat for a FMP with a single wick.

It is a bummer. I also find that jars with necks and the curve are much easier to get the wax out to the sides because of the trapped heat and find the scent throw is better....i.e. mason jars vs. madison jars and/or Status jars. I can also get a better scent throw with a small roly poly than a status jar or at least much faster in the burn than the status jar and closer to the top. The 16 oz. apothecary (has the neck/curve) can be be hard to double wick in the 16 oz. or taller apothecary jars. One wick will do fine in these jars but two wicks can easily drown out. Although, one wick in the apothecaries can be a tuff one getting a complete meltpool with many types of wax. I only found pure soy to be the easiest to double wick in the taller apothecary jars. Wicking can be a pain in the butt. It is always one thing or the other. After several years of making candles, I have learned what usually works and doesn't work and try to work around it. I am sorry it is not working out for you. I will say though, there may be a wax that will work in that jar without getting the weak flame when it gets lower. Good luck!

Edited June 20, 2012 by Holly

[HorseScentS]

It is a bummer. I also find that jars with necks and the curve are much easier to get the wax out to the sides because of the trapped heat and find the scent throw is better....i.e. mason jars vs. madison jars and/or Status jars. I can also get a better scent throw with a small roly poly than a status jar or at least much faster in the burn than the status jar and closer to the top. The 16 oz. apothecary (has the neck/curve) can be be hard to double wick in the 16 oz. or taller apothecary jars. One wick will do fine in these jars but two wicks can easily drown out. Although, one wick in the apothecaries can be a tuff one getting a complete meltpool with many types of wax. I only found pure soy to be the easiest to double wick in the taller apothecary jars. Wicking can be a pain in the butt. It is always one thing or the other. After several years of making candles, I have learned what usually works and doesn't work and try to work around it. I am sorry it is not working out for you. I will say though, there may be a wax that will work in that jar without getting the weak flame when it gets lower. Good luck!

Thanks, Holly. I really appreciate all the info. Even with my limited experience I can see that you're right. Maybe I'll go back to the tureen because it's got such a good HT. I'd also love to try the oval hex. I was hoping to stick with locally available jars, but I'm not satisfied with any of the ones I can buy here in town, so far. I still haven't tried triple wicking the Libbey Heart bowl, so maybe I'll try that one next, because I can buy them at Dollar Tree.

[HorseScentS]

It is a bummer. I also find that jars with necks and the curve are much easier to get the wax out to the sides because of the trapped heat and find the scent throw is better....i.e. mason jars vs. madison jars and/or Status jars. I can also get a better scent throw with a small roly poly than a status jar or at least much faster in the burn than the status jar and closer to the top. The 16 oz. apothecary (has the neck/curve) can be be hard to double wick in the 16 oz. or taller apothecary jars. One wick will do fine in these jars but two wicks can easily drown out. Although, one wick in the apothecaries can be a tuff one getting a complete meltpool with many types of wax. I only found pure soy to be the easiest to double wick in the taller apothecary jars. Wicking can be a pain in the butt. It is always one thing or the other. After several years of making candles, I have learned what usually works and doesn't work and try to work around it. I am sorry it is not working out for you. I will say though, there may be a wax that will work in that jar without getting the weak flame when it gets lower. Good luck!

P.S. Holly, I've seen some really cute 24 oz mustard jar candles, and they're 3-1/2" diameter, just like the Quart masons. The big mustard jars look adorable overflowing with whipped wax, embeds, and layers of color. They double wick them, but I don't know what wick they use. If I can possibly get a locally-available wide mouth Quart mason to work with 4627 instead of having to pay shipping on mustard jars, I'll be happy, but like you said, the double wicks easily drown and the single wick can't get an FMP in 4627 without a shoulder on the jar. 4627 just seems so hard to work with, but I love the HT and CT. Does anybody wick big jars in 4627???

I guess I'll go to Hobby Lobby and get a wide mouth Quart mason just for kicks. I've got plenty of leftover wax to remelt and pour into it.

Edited June 20, 2012 by HorsescentS

[Holly]

P.S. Holly, I've seen some really cute 24 oz mustard jar candles, and they're 3-1/2" diameter, just like the Quart masons. The big mustard jars look adorable overflowing with whipped wax, embeds, and layers of color. They double wick them, but I don't know what wick they use. If I can possibly get a locally-available wide mouth Quart mason to work with 4627 instead of having to pay shipping on mustard jars, I'll be happy, but like you said, the double wicks easily drown and the single wick can't get an FMP in 4627 without a shoulder on the jar. 4627 just seems so hard to work with, but I love the HT and CT. Does anybody wick big jars in 4627???

I guess I'll go to Hobby Lobby and get a wide mouth Quart mason just for kicks. I've got plenty of leftover wax to remelt and pour into it.

Hi! I have seen those jars. I have never tried them but they may work with double wicking (depending on the wax) because I think they are more straight sided....not much of a curve at all at the top. It may work. The apothecaries have more of a neck and curve than the mustard jars. I would like to see how it would work as well. I am headed out for a horse ride but will be back on later. Trailering Clyde over to where my friend boards her horse to work in the arena and then out for a ride. I may take some pictures. I am horrible about taking pictures when I go somewhere....hassle!

Edited June 20, 2012 by Holly

[HorseScentS]

Hi! I have seen those jars. I have never tried them but they may work with double wicking (depending on the wax) because I think they are more straight sided....not much of a curve at all at the top. It may work. The apothecaries have more of a neck and curve than the mustard jars. I would like to see how it would work as well. I am headed out for a horse ride but will be back on later. Trailering Clyde over to where my friend boards her horse to work in the arena and then out for a ride. I may take some pictures. I am horrible about taking pictures when I go somewhere....hassle!

Oh, yes! Please post pics of your ride! I would love to see them!

The 24 oz mustard jars are available at AAA Candle Supply in Texas. They're probably shorter than the wide mouth Quart mason I'm getting ready to try.

Edited to add: Wow! I just Googled for the search terms 4627 + "quart mason" and I found this comment from the old forum:

Title: Re: Need opinions on best container wax

Post by sunshine on Jun 29th, 2003, 5:46am IGI 4627 has some kick-butt throw. I use HTP-104s in quart mason jars and they seem to work very well. http://www.candletech.com/cgi-local/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=Discussions;action=print;num=1056757997

So, does anybody know who sunshine is? I'd love to ask if she's talking about the regular mouth Quart mason that I just tried and failed to wick with 4627, or the wide mouth Quart mason that I'm getting ready to try. And I don't see how a HTP-104 wick would work in that 3-1/2" dia. jar. I had to use HTP-126 in the regular mouth Quart mason and it didn't even get a FMP until the wax level was almost halfway down in the jar.

Maybe she meant to say pint mason?

Edited June 20, 2012 by HorsescentS