Cut and Curl--starting on a budget?

[jackie]

I really want to try cut and curl without investing too much till I see if I have any talent at all for it. I have 4625 wax already that I use for pillars but would that just be wasting it to try to use for this? I've read you need either 1343 or 4611.

I also have liquid dye, would that work or bleed too much?

I figure I can use coffee cans for dip vats.

I was wondering if an electric griddle would work to keep the wax hot (in a double boiler setting). ?

I was thinking about doing this in the garage where it's warm this time of year so they won't cool too fast after dipping. But was trying to decide the cheapest way to keep the dipping wax hot enough.

I saw a book on Cut and Carve by Brooks but it's about $23 incl s/h used (for a 96pg book--seems high) -- I'd buy it if it has in depth information/tips. Anyone have this book?

Sorry to put so many questions out. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I have searched this site for ideas but still seem to have lots of questions.

[joym]

4625 is not the best, but could be used for practice. I was taught to only use one color plus clear when I first started; that way you can remelt and reuse the wax.

You may need two vats of hot wax; one you're dipping into and one to refill the dipping vat. Coffee cans might work; what about tall juice cans? Also, if you have a Presto pot, put water in it and then the "can" inside.

Liquid dye will bleed, but would b OK for practice runs; but need pigment for anything you want to keep.

I have her book, and think it's worth the money.

[EricofAZ]

Ah, a thread after my own heart. I've tried some of these things so let me share...

1. The 4625 is probably fine to start with to test your skills. The 1343 stays pliable a minute or so you will appreciate that once you start with more complex designs, but going for easy quick stuff should be OK on the pillar wax. No stearic, but a little vybar might make it a bit more pliable while warm.

2. Coffee cans are fine for vats. Quart size? The gallon ones are wider but need a lot of wax to fill. I'm actually using 3" x 9 1/2 inch pillar moulds for vats for my tapers. You can't store the wax in the vat because reheating is a problem. So I bought a bunch of cheap aluminum meatloaf moulds at the store and make a brick out of the wax from the vat for storage. Then I melt in the presto and pour back into the vat when I am ready to work again.

3. I tried a honcho electric griddle with a thin steel container filled with water in it. That was the idea, a double boiler. The griddle has to run at nearly 400 degrees to heat the water up hot enough to melt the vats. Unless the griddle is on a steel surface that can take the heat, forget it. Can't do that on a wooden table, the table gets too hot under the griddle. For under $200 you can buy food warmer that are electric and have a one foot by two foot (or slightly less) pan built in that is 6 inches deep. I don't have one but I found one and its on my list this weekend to try. I think the bottom stays cool enough that it will work on a wooden table/countertop, but not sure yet.

4. The cooling of the wax leaves a working window of a couple of minutes between 135 and 110 degrees. I'm not sure the room temperature has much to do with that. By the time the wax gets close to room temp, even in the garage, its too cool to work with. But I suppose it helps and I suppose some good air flow for breathing is worth while.

5. I don't have the book but I bought DVD 1 from candles and supplies (candlefun .com as well) and the guy explains things pretty well in #1. After the first video, the rest are merely technique for the candles, but the first one has some tips on how to use the knives, etc.

6. Liquid dye works fine. Pigments are probably better for the vats, they don't bleed as much. Titanium oxide in various colors is also great for the vats.

Hope that helps. You'll get the hang of it pretty fast. When you learn to make dripless tapers, please come and share.

[AlwaysWondering]

Cut and curl candles are amazing and my hats off to all you who make them.

Good luck to you!

[jackie]

Thanks so much for the replies. This is strictly a hobby for me so I want some fun. My goal is to create my own little "works of art" collection.

Is candlefun the best place to get good carving tools? I see that as my next purchase. I'll start with a kitchen knife but I'll want atleasst one more tool soon. We have no art/craft stores here so I have to order everything (this is a rural area). I get my regular supplies from Peak's but I didn't see any carving tools there.

I have a Presto pot but that's what I'll use to melt the wax to fill/refill the vats then add my color when I fill the vats so I may try my griddle (I have 2 old ones) and see how hot it gets underneath.

Thanks again.

[EricofAZ]

Candlefun has the tools that are used in the video. I bought them and they work just fine. candles and supplies also sells the same thing, but adds a little to the price. Either way, they work and the cost of trying to buy something similar and bend to shape is probably not worth it.

I bought one of those double hot plates from GE and put the vat (coffee can) directly on it. Not to melt the wax (bad idea) but to keep it liquid once transferred from the presto to the vat. It worked fine. I kept a fire extinguisher handy because dripping a bit of wax on the hotplate is bad. The plates were solid ceramic, not the electric coil. I think the electric coil is just an invitation for a fire. The flat ceramic was better.

I also was looking into the induction hotplates that have glass tops. Those seem to be the safest, but the cost is pretty high. Seems that it might be cheaper to just buy a food warmer. The "full sized pan" just barely fits on my griddle and at 400 degrees for 3 hours, I couldn't get the water above 138 degrees.

However, the food warmers that take a full sized pan (which is 6 inches deep) are slightly larger of course and can be filled with water. They will get the water pretty hot and I plan on putting the vats directly in the warmer that is filled with water and not using the pan.

I think that with the water 6 inches up the side of the vat, and a reasonably sized vat, it may be possible to skip the step of emptying the vat and reheating in the presto. I think that if the food warmer is brought up slowly in temp, it will liquify the vat in a few hours without the problems that occur when melting from the bottom up. At least, that's what it looks like in the videos.

http://www.potspans.com/product_display.cfm?ProductID=605