C3 Soy Wax Stearic Acid

[Beli]

Alright... I read most of the previous threads on this wax (at least the ones I can find with the new search feature.. can't find any new posts.. 2010) At what percentage do I start adding 3%? I can't seem to find that info.

I'm pretty happy with 464, which is the wax I currently use, but I love testing new waxes to see if I can find something better and I heard C3 has an incredable cold throw (something my 464 is lacking a bit in.. even with the stronger fragrances). So I brought 10lb of it to play with. I can't seem to go up more than .5oz per lb of wax without getting seepage when burning and that's with adding beeswax/stearic. And at .5oz per lb of wax, it gives an amazing hot throw so that's a plus.

[Pam W]

If you're getting a good throw with .5oz, why would you want to add more?

[Stella1952]

I have used NatureWax C3 for many years. It has a good hot throw and cold throw. It does not need stearic acid nor beeswax and often misbehaves when either is added. One can either use it from the box or with some added USA (1 Tbsp. per pound). I use 1 oz. FO PP and seldom have trouble with seepage except in certain environmental conditions (high humidity, warm weather or high humidity, cold weather).

I sure wouldn't switch soy waxes based on rumors of better COLD throw... Have you tried using 1 oz. PP in your 464?

[Beli]

I have used NatureWax C3 for many years. It has a good hot throw and cold throw. It does not need stearic acid nor beeswax and often misbehaves when either is added. One can either use it from the box or with some added USA (1 Tbsp. per pound). I use 1 oz. FO PP and seldom have trouble with seepage except in certain environmental conditions (high humidity, warm weather or high humidity, cold weather).

I sure wouldn't switch soy waxes based on rumors of better COLD throw... Have you tried using 1 oz. PP in your 464?

Yes, I've tried upping to 1oz pp. I seem to get a better cold throw, but I get terrible seepage when burning even after curing for almost a month. (Oil droplets when burning.. so the wick is too hot at 1oz pp). I haven't tried different wicks at 1oz pp though. I suppose I could try that. I've used both CDN's Cd's and Eco's in 464, and the Eco's tend to work really well for me. Also when upping to 1oz pp, some scents seem to be way too strong burning at 1oz pp.

I'm not "switching" just yet.. I'm just playing around and testing. I will not switch again unless I know for sure the wax will be the right fit.

Edited April 15, 2011 by Beli

[Beli]

Pam, I don't... which is why I was going to try the C3 and see how good the cold throw is at my usual .5oz pp.

Edited April 15, 2011 by Beli

[Stella1952]

At what percentage do I start adding 3%? I can't seem to find that info.

That's because it isn't recommended to add stearic acid to NatureWax C3... now to their votive and pillar waxes (V1 and P1, respectively), the manufacturer suggests adding stearic up to 10%, but NOT to C3.

I get terrible seepage when burning even after curing for almost a month. (Oil droplets when burning.. so the wick is too hot at 1oz pp

Oil droplets when burning is not necessarily an indicator of overwicking. What it means is that the oil is being forced out of the wax. This can happen for many reasons. If you are having this problem with both 464 AND C3, the cause may be related to your technique (the temp at which the FO is added; how long and well the wax is stirred after adding FO) rather than a problem with the wax. It's also possible that there is a problem with the FO you are using. When the seasons change - both from cold to warm and from warm to cold - syneresis is a common complaint as well as wet spots on containers. Soy waxes are very sensitive to temperature and humidity changes. I can't speak for 464, but I do know how C3 reacts. Even in the deep Gulf south here (syneresis country), I seldom see any problem with this at higher levels of FO than you are using.

Perhaps a little more information can help pinpoint the cause. To what temp did you heat both waxes? What additives and amounts did you use? Are you weighing your FO or measuring? What FOs are "seeping"? At what temp did you add the FO to the two waxes and how long did you stir? What size (diameter) container are you using and what wicks? At what temp did you pour? What's the ambient temperature where you are burning the candles? How much "seepage" are we talking about? A few droplets or a pool covering the surface of the candle?

[Beli]

That's because it isn't recommended to add stearic acid to NatureWax C3... now to their votive and pillar waxes (V1 and P1, respectively), the manufacturer suggests adding stearic up to 10%, but NOT to C3.

Oil droplets when burning is not necessarily an indicator of overwicking. What it means is that the oil is being forced out of the wax. This can happen for many reasons. If you are having this problem with both 464 AND C3, the cause may be related to your technique (the temp at which the FO is added; how long and well the wax is stirred after adding FO) rather than a problem with the wax. It's also possible that there is a problem with the FO you are using. When the seasons change - both from cold to warm and from warm to cold - syneresis is a common complaint as well as wet spots on containers. Soy waxes are very sensitive to temperature and humidity changes. I can't speak for 464, but I do know how C3 reacts. Even in the deep Gulf south here (syneresis country), I seldom see any problem with this at higher levels of FO than you are using.

Perhaps a little more information can help pinpoint the cause. To what temp did you heat both waxes? What additives and amounts did you use? Are you weighing your FO or measuring? What FOs are "seeping"? At what temp did you add the FO to the two waxes and how long did you stir? What size (diameter) container are you using and what wicks? At what temp did you pour? What's the ambient temperature where you are burning the candles? How much "seepage" are we talking about? A few droplets or a pool covering the surface of the candle?

I add my FO at around 170-180 as per CS suggestion on their website. I don't wait to pour, I usually poor enough to secure the wick that's held up by the wick pin & then let let the wax cool a bit till cloudy, stir again and then poor once I've secured the wick. By this time the wax has hardened enough to secure the wick. (I don't like glue guns or glue dots.. as I can't seem to center the wick that way) In the winter it's about 65ish generally speaking in the apartment. Where I'm burning same thing.. living room.. 65 it's a one level two bedroom apartment. And it's not just that one FO it's all of them I've tried, and from Reputable suppliers such as Ahe, NG etc. The oil droplets usually tend to cover the whole candle, tho sometimes it just around where it's burning depends on the FO. I also stir the FO for the full 2min (I time it with my stove timer) I haven't experimented with heating the jars yet tho either.

Edited April 15, 2011 by Beli

[IwantItgreen]

I hoping I've misunderstood, but you surely are securing the wick with something if not with hot glue, I hope. Please say yes! If not you are creating a huge fire hazard. An unsecured wick, (to be clear, I'm talking about an unsecured wick to the bottom of the container) will float around the jar when it has been burned down to the last and the wax is liquid. Then your wick will probably end up next to the side of the container, trapping all the heat in one spot, cracking the jar.

Wick stick-ums are available from many suppliers, or 3M mounting tape works too, plus there are other adhesives, and I'm sure you'll be hearing more about that soon.:tiptoe:

Edited April 16, 2011 by IwantItgreen

[Beli]

I hoping I've misunderstood, but you surely are securing the wick with something if not with hot glue, I hope. Please say yes! If not you are creating a huge fire hazard. An unsecured wick, (to be clear, I'm talking about an unsecured wick to the bottom of the container) will float around the jar when it has been burned down to the last and the wax is liquid. Then your wick will probably end up next to the side of the container, trapping all the heat in one spot, cracking the jar.

Wick stick-ums are available from many suppliers, or 3M mounting tape works too, plus there are other adhesives, and I'm sure you'll be hearing more about that soon.:tiptoe:

Its secured with wax. Wick stick-ums nor hot glue work for me. Wick stick-ums just come off the glass when wax is poured. I've been making candles for 10+yrs and never had a problem this way, and I tested candles for 3-4yrs before that before even selling them.

[Babyv]

.... Wick stick-ums just come off the glass when wax is poured. I've been making candles for 10+yrs and never had a problem this way, and I tested candles for 3-4yrs before that before even selling them.

I use wick stickums from CS and they have never come off when I pour hot wax. Actually, I have to really heat the bottom of the jar and use a screwdriver to take them off.

I would not sell or gift a candle without securing the wick. Just saying!

[islandgirl]

Its secured with wax. Wick stick-ums nor hot glue work for me. Wick stick-ums just come off the glass when wax is poured. I've been making candles for 10+yrs and never had a problem this way, and I tested candles for 3-4yrs before that before even selling them.

How can the wax secure the wick when you are burning wax?? The wax melts and wicks float. Very dangerous.

OR maybe I am misunderstanding your post ???

So please tell me what happens to your wicks when you candle gets to the bottom of your jar? How do they stay secured?

I am curios as to what wax you currently can use .5oz of FO with??

Edited April 16, 2011 by islandgirl

[Beli]

How can the wax secure the wick when you are burning wax?? The wax melts and wicks float. Very dangerous.

OR maybe I am misunderstanding your post ???

So please tell me what happens to your wicks when you candle gets to the bottom of your jar? How do they stay secured?

I am curios as to what wax you currently can use .5oz of FO with??

Nothing happens to them they don't move etc, it stays in place. As far as Wax it's 464 .5oz per lb of wax is a little over 3% well within the safety limits for that wax as I've previously said. I did try stickums again(just a bit ago), but the bottom looks uncentered to me, but at least this time the wick stayed in place.

[islandgirl]

If your soy candle is burning properly, it really should burn straight across and straight down your jar.

It then would leave an unattached wick to float in your jar, if you burned it all the way down to the bottom.

Now I do understand that we tell our customers and have on our warning labels to stop burning the candle when there is 1/2 inch of wax left. If they do that, then I can see your wick staying secured. But most will burn the candle all way down and use every ounce of wax. Which... Would leave your unattached wick floating. That is a fire hazard and very unsafe.

For you own safety and your customers, you really need to find a way that works for you and attach those wicks.

If your insurance knew you were not attaching your wicks, they may dispute a claim and you could loose everything if you get sued.

I can't imagine a good scent throw from 3% in 464?? FO load is 7-10% Max 12% per some suppliers?? I think you need to add more oil to your wax. That could be your scent throw problem??

You have been using 3% for ten years??

ETS: Here is the specs from CS and a link to Candle Science regarding 464 which may help you on FO load.

Details:

Wax Type:Natural Soy Wax 464

Max Fragrance:12% or 2oz./lb.Applications:-Containers

Edited April 16, 2011 by islandgirl

[IwantItgreen]

Nothing happens to them they don't move etc, it stays in place. As far as Wax it's 464 .5oz per lb of wax is a little over 3% well within the safety limits for that wax as I've previously said. I did try stickums again(just a bit ago), but the bottom looks uncentered to me, but at least this time the wick stayed in place.

Here's what you need to make sure your wicks are centered. It is the EZ Wick Setter. http://www.candlescience.com/equipment/ez-wick-setter-single/

Also make sure your glass is squeaky clean. Glass right from the factory usually has a residue on it that may prevent the wick stick-ums or hot glue to stick. I use hot glue with a high temp glue gun and high temp glue sticks. They are stuck instantly and a bugger to remove. If any of the glue drips on you, you have a blister!

I'm curious where you get your FO's from that you can use only 3% and get a good HT? Mind saying?? Thanks

Edited April 16, 2011 by IwantItgreen

[Beli]

Here's what you need to make sure your wicks are centered. It is the EZ Wick Setter. http://www.candlescience.com/equipment/ez-wick-setter-single/

Also make sure your glass is squeaky clean. Glass right from the factory usually has a residue on it that may prevent the wick stick-ums or hot glue to stick. I use hot glue with a high temp glue gun and high temp glue sticks. They are stuck instantly and a bugger to remove. If any of the glue drips on you, you have a blister!

I'm curious where you get your FO's from that you can use only 3% and get a good HT? Mind saying?? Thanks

Reputable suppliers, AHE, NG, Peaks etc (are my main suppliers) I do add beeswax to my candles with 464, and noticed that it does help. I only use about a tablespoon per lb of wax. I do not call them Vegan candles tho due to the added beeswax. If I up the FO anymore then that I end up getting seepage when burning like I said. I've already tried the centering tool.. wick pins err not wick pins.. wick holders sorry something similar to this Bitter creek had them years ago when I first started. http://www.peakcandle.com/products/Wick-Holder-Bars__A1023.aspx.

However, I've also been using these lately http://www.peakcandle.com/products/SmallMedium-Wick-Centering-Tool__A1033.aspx. These work better for me then the centering tool to keep the wicks straight once in the jar. I'm using the right wick for the wax. I've tried CDN's, CD's and Eco's even according to CS wick guide Eco works better in 464, but no matter how much I up the FO load I get seepage even with the addition of beeswax, CO or Stearic. The hot throw is great.. it's cold throw that's a bit weak.

Maybe next candle I make tonight/tomorrow will be with that to see if that helps with the centering on the bottom with the stickums. Like I said last time I tried them years ago, it came off when I poured.. could be I poured too hot.. it's been years since I tried it (Till earlier this afternoon)will have to try and find my notes. The reasons you mentioned are one of the reasons I won't use glue guns... I've tried that too in the past and yes, you will get a blister if it gets on your skin and can't get it off your glassware.

If you would like to test one of my candles I can send ya one I'm not that way.. i'm always looking for a way to improve em

Edited April 16, 2011 by Beli