ECO trimming

[Dorothy Mantooth]

I've been doing all my testing with ECO wicks. I personally like them, but they do seem to be fragile after burning. Anyone else have a problem with them breaking off too short? I've been trying to be good and trim slightly between burns and sometimes the wick just breaks off totally. If I don't trim the flame tends to be too high. I didn't see this question in searching the forum. I think this would frustrate a consumer. 

[wthomas57]

Yes i knpw what u mean. Thats why if i have to use eco i hopr they curl or self trim so i dont need to. Thats hit and miss though 

[Dorothy Mantooth]

Thanks. I just can't imagine a consumer trimming it. Tonight I decided to try not timing some that has burned 2 hours the night before. The flames were super huge- about 2". I blew them out and trimmed. Now they are proper sized. I didn't care for zinc. I kept breaking off the wire and got really big mushrooms. What do you suggest for one that doesn't need trimmed or is more sturdy? I'm just wicking 8oz tins. I started with the Eco 14 candle science suggested and it was stupid overkill. I'm testing Eco 6,8,10. I using NW elite 200. I've got several different fo burning at 10%. I'm wicking a 4oz tin with Eco 2 and it works great every time. 

[wthomas57]

If you are using tins, then I would reconsider zincs. They burn cooler. Since tins can get quite hot and tend to hold in heat really well, zincs do well in them. If you cant deal with the mushrooms and/or trimming, then you really narrow your options.

 

Almost ANY wick can technically self trim where you dont need to in between burns.. but it has to be a PERFECT combination of wax, wick, scent, and jar.

You are correct, many consumers don't know to trim or wont trim. So educate as you can, put little hang tags or something with each candle saying to trim wicks, etc.

I wouldn't avoid a candle because it burns well for you but you think consumers wont trim. You can't control what they do. That being said, I understand where you are coming from and I, as well, am constantly working on completely self trimming wicking. But Ill warn you... it takes LOTS of time and LOTS of money to keep experimenting and testing and you have to be willing to give up completely on many combinations and scents.  I have invested a considerable amount of profits and own money to work towards these goals. But I wouldn't set out to do that from the beginning. Make good quality candles and start selling. Then with time work on tweaking and improving towards your goals.

 

Ok, sorry...back to the wick suggestions.

Its hard to help you without knowing what wax your using. Soy, parrafin, or parasoy, palm, coconut wax, etc?

 

• ECOs do well but only in soy IMO
• HTP all around pretty good and will curl for you. but after a couple burns can still get a large flame.
• CDs, unless you are using straight soy I find these tend to mushroom and soot more than my liking. If I am going to be ok with some mushrooms and soot, then Id go with zinc all day every day.
• LX and Premiers...hit or miss. Sometimes act like htp, other times act like zinc without the wire
• RRD, another descent all around wick but less incremental sizing and for me works great with some scents, not at all with others.
• Woodwicks... no thanks, let me know if you ever find a consistent good one available to us (not just big box like WoodWick)
• Paper - work well in many waxes, but mushroom and soot and too big a flame for my liking.

 

I can assist with more specifics when I know your wax

Edited September 6, 2017 by wthomas57

[Dorothy Mantooth]

Thanks @wthomas57  any of the ones you use not break off after burning/cooling if you try to trim them?  I'm using soy NW Elite 200. When you test burn do you trim in between or leave not trimmed to simulate consumers burn?

[wthomas57]

Well, I mean any wicks can break off once they become charred after extended use. Your best bet to avoid accidentally knocking off too much when trying to trim would be cored wicks. but they have their own drawbacks. ECO has been the worst for me in terms of crumbling easily though. Try rounded and/or square braid wicks rather than flat like ECO. May help as well. Try LX

[Dorothy Mantooth]

I still have some zinc, so I'll try that again. My notes don't describe well why I didn't like them. Appreciate your advice. 

[Dorothy Mantooth]

Well know I remember my zinc experience. The flame always seemed poor to me. I'm going to post photos from a current burn.  First- just look at the two middle candles. Is that what a zinc fame is supposed to look like? Top is z36-24 and lower is z44-32.  

 

All candles shown are using NW Elite 200 soy. 

 

candles other than the middle two are separated by rows of scent in columns of eco wick size. Left to right eco 10, eco 8, eco 6. Where the zinc are is where an eco 8 was that died during the previous burn. 

 

Row closest to the camera is a strong cinnamon fo, middle is a lemonade, fastest away is a lighter peony. 

 

Ive been trying to determine which eco to use in 8oz tin. For 4 oz tin I've settled on eco 2. I think it does well for me in most scents. 

 

All candles in these photos have been burning 2 hours tonight. All except the zinc are on their 4th burn.  Burn 1 @ 3 hours and each of the others at 2 hours. 9 hours total. I don't have my notes on how long the zinc burned previously. 

 

My wax wax says it doesn't neee cure time, but I waited 5-6 days before burning this batch.

 

all eco tins are 10% fo. Zincs are at 6% and we're lighter fo. 

 

All were trimmed before each burn period. 

Typically I heat to 186, take off heat, add fo within a few minutes, stir two minutes and pour. This wax cools really fast in the pour pot, so I'd say I'm poring around 165ish. 

 

I think I covered everything. Let me know what you think about these zincs and the candles in general. I've had two batches back to back where the eco 8 burned out at about 7 hours but eco 6 chugged on. In one test eco 4 burned all the way to the end. I don't get a deep pool with this wax like I did when I was testing 464. On 4oz with eco 2 I get a pool after 2 hour burn. I started with eco 14 and I just think it seemed unsafe. It did make a good pool though. Appreciate any comments. 

[wthomas57]

I should have noticed this earlier... and sorry I didn't. I didn't realize you were using 100%soy wax. And i am not familiar with your wax, I've never used it. I would not recommend

zinc with it though being all soy. My bad. you are right... they wont be a good option. Id stick with ECO, CD, or HTP if it was me. Or premier

[Dorothy Mantooth]

No problem. I read somewhere they might also work in soy, but thry just really struggle in this wax. I'll have to get some samples of another wick to try. Also, it is annoying that I can't find a pal who uses this wax I use. I even called filmore container and they confirmed it wasn't an old wax or something that would be discontinued anytime soon. It says it's soy, but tops don't look like soy at all after burning. They are very smooth. It's burning slower than 464 and I'm not quite convinced ecos are the best fit. 

[wthomas57]

Yah, I hear ya. I really no nothing about that wax. I am not a huge fan of all soy anyway. The only one I really liked in the past was CB Advanced.

I prefer parasoy mostly. What is melt point of that wax? 

[Dorothy Mantooth]

[Dorothy Mantooth]

[Dorothy Mantooth]

https://www.cargill.com/doc/1432078142582/naturewax-elite-200-data-sheet.pdf

[wthomas57]

hmm, yah I'm not sure what to recommend. Id just be guessing since I dont use that wax at all. Id go with the recommended choices and just keep testing I guess. Sorry.

Have you considered trying a new wax sometime?

 

By the way, how do you like using a wax that is designed to pull away from container rather than adhere to the sides?  

[Dorothy Mantooth]

I tried 464, c3, 464+paraffin, and some 100% soy junk from hobby lobby. All had tops that I wasn't pleased with after burning and cooling. 

 

Pulling away- I have mainly been trying tins. I've been too lazy to try any with preheated jars. NW Elite 200 had about the same type of wet spots as other waxed. I'm not getting complete pull away, but if I heat the sides with a blow dryer it looks nice. After burning it seems to go back.  Here are two jars I just burned for 3 hours. Can you see the parts that are adhering?  Also a top from 3 hour in a tin. Looks perfectly smooth. 

 

I'd try a parasoy or pure paraffin if you have a suggestion for type and wick for 8oz tin. I'm not sold that it has to be soy. I just want it to consistently have a nice top.  

[wthomas57]

If you are looking for consistently nice top, than you are facing uphill battle sticking with soy. Parrafin much easier and more consistent.

Try 4630. I think you will find it more pleasing. (And much easier to wick!) If nothing else try blending 4630 (or something else) with your soy.

Soy is having lots of issues lately with all the regulation changes and suppliers have been having all sorts of issues and complaints.Its documented pretty well

on this forum. Its why NGI stopped their soy waxes for a bit while they worked on redevelopment.  I use 6006 often too which is a parasoy. Its a pretty good happy medium.

Sounds like its a bit easier to wick than your wax as well.

[Dorothy Mantooth]

What wick should I try with 4630 in 4oz and 8oz tin? I'll order some tomorrow. 

[wthomas57]

its gonna depend on the FO and the FO %.

But I would try the following in no particular order:

 

Zinc

LX

htp

[Dorothy Mantooth]

I ordered some 4630, htp, and cd to test. I still have zinc sampler.  I'm doing 4oz and 8oz tins. I've got two FO in quantities to test across those three wicks in those two size containers- peony or tobacco cherry. Do you suggest 8%?  Ultimately I'd love a strong smeller. I've tested these FO in my soy and I like the ht at 10%. I read that paraffin throws better than soy so I assume I can do 6 or 8%. I've also not been able to get a 8oz candle to burn for a zillion hours like most people say about soy. I think the best I did was 22hours. I've been weighing between burns and keeping track to compare to 4630. Always appreciate the guidance. 

[wthomas57]

You definitely will not need more than 6-8% in 4630. You will just want to evaluate by scent.

HTPs work well in  4630, but keep an eye on them in small tins. Since they tend to curl and sometimes lean,

you dont want them  getting to close to one side of the tin. I think you will probably have best luck zinc if I had to guess.

But several wicks work well in 4630 just depends on scent, application, and testing. You could also try small wood wicks and premiers

[CatCatCandles]

On 9/9/2017 at 9:55 PM, Dorothy Mantooth said:

I ordered some 4630, htp, and cd to test. I still have zinc sampler.  I'm doing 4oz and 8oz tins. I've got two FO in quantities to test across those three wicks in those two size containers- peony or tobacco cherry. Do you suggest 8%?  Ultimately I'd love a strong smeller. I've tested these FO in my soy and I like the ht at 10%. I read that paraffin throws better than soy so I assume I can do 6 or 8%. I've also not been able to get a 8oz candle to burn for a zillion hours like most people say about soy. I think the best I did was 22hours. I've been weighing between burns and keeping track to compare to 4630. Always appreciate the guidance. 

Hi, how did you get along with the wicking for 4630? What was it like on it own? How long did you let it cure before burning? Which wicks worked for it when it was just paraffin? Did you also try a parasoy blend, with which wicks and FO?  How was he HT in both? 

 

I just got some 4630 and will start testing soon. Just wanted to have kind of a base before setting out. 

 

Wanted to add that I made a soy candle from gb464 FO 2ozpp. 8oz glass jar. It's has burned for over 30hrs and still has a couple more hours to go. Eco 4 provided great HT in this candle. Eco 10 has no HT at all. 

 

thanks 

Edited October 5, 2017 by CatCatCandles

[Dorothy Mantooth]

I did one batch of 4630 - without fragrance, testing wicks.  I only let it cure two days before testing.

My notes don't appear to be great, but I've marked down some good and bad. I don't have listed what made them good or bad to me, but normally if the wick dies out I mark it as bad.

Overall I wasn't sold on the look of the wax. it wasn't the creamy soy that I've been working with.

My intention was to test the "good" wicks with FO.  (I know the debate here of testing without FO.)

 

I have some 464/4630 blend I haven't burned yet.

Hopes this helps some.

 

GOOD

8oz tin - CD10

8oz tin - HTP 83

4oz tin -  CD8

 

BAD

8oz tin - 36-24

8oz tin - 44-33-18

8oz tin - CD12

8oz tin - CD8

8oz tin - HTP 41

8oz tin - HTP 62

4oz tin - 34-40

4oz tin - HTP 41

[CatCatCandles]

On 10/10/2017 at 7:31 PM, Dorothy Mantooth said:

I did one batch of 4630 - without fragrance, testing wicks.  I only let it cure two days before testing.

My notes don't appear to be great, but I've marked down some good and bad. I don't have listed what made them good or bad to me, but normally if the wick dies out I mark it as bad. Overall I wasn't sold on the look of the wax. it wasn't the creamy soy that I've been working with.

My intention was to test the "good" wicks with FO.  (I know the debate here of testing without FO.)

 

I have some 464/4630 blend I haven't burned yet.

GOOD

 

8oz tin - CD10

 

8oz tin - HTP 83

 

4oz tin -  CD8

 

Hey Dorothy, have you burned the 464/4630 blends yet? How did it go ?

 

[Ajah]

Yes I agree htp 83 works well in that tin with 464/4630 blend