rainey Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 I saw this information on a candle supplier's website and thought I would pass it on:"NOTE: THE ASTM has declared that 175º is the Maximum temperature that the Container can be when the melt pool has been achieved on your candles. Any thing above this can be a hazard. Please check your candles to comply with these standards." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgirl Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 That is very interesting!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geekrunner Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 What candle supplier has this safety warning? Seems like this needs some context, such as what type(s) of containers this applies to, and the dangers (other than the obvious fire hazard). :undecidedgeek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth-VT Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 I'd like to know to. I've searched the ASTM's site and can find no such reference.Edit:Well der! Guess I should have remembered that, huh. Thanks Shannon. Still can't find an ASTM reference though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannon WY Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Taylored Concepts displays that warning. There was a thread a while back on it which you can view here: http://www.candletech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5827&highlight=ASTM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainey Posted January 10, 2006 Author Share Posted January 10, 2006 Taylored Concepts displays that warning. There was a thread a while back on it which you can view here: http://www.candletech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5827&highlight=ASTMThanks Shannon. So I am correct in understanding that we are to measure the temp of the actual melt pool, not the temp of the container (like the outside). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 I'd like to know to. I've searched the ASTM's site and can find no such reference.Just search on candles. You'd have to pay to see the document though.BTW, the ASTM is just a standards organization. It doesn't mean anything legally unless a government entity decides to use their standards to make law.Their standards are often adopted by industry too. Look at a spec sheet for candle wax. They list melt point, hardness, viscosity and any number of things. There's a method for measuring each one of those and you'll see that they list the specific ASTM standard method that was used. If everyone does it the same way then you can compare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth-VT Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Oh I know about ASTM....I worked in manuf. for years, lol. I was just curious as to the origins of this...TC (to me) tries to make it sound like this is now a 'regulated' issue and that the candle police will be out to enforce the standard for those in noncompliance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Oh I know about ASTM....I worked in manuf. for years, lol. I was just curious as to the origins of this...TC (to me) tries to make it sound like this is now a 'regulated' issue and that the candle police will be out to enforce the standard for those in noncompliance I have this vague recollection of hearing about some legislation in connection with this standard. Just not sure about it, but that's the question I guess - whether states or the feds are doing anything with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Bug Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 For what it's worth...maybe two cents? LOL...If you got a melt pool to reach 175, your whole candle would be melted as I see it. I've tried to measure mine and when I blow out the wick and take the MP temp, I have a hard time getting to 140. Anyone else ever try and take the temp? Just wondering as someone on another forum said it takes about 150 in soy to get a real good throw. So far, I've never gotton that high. Beth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgirl Posted January 10, 2006 Share Posted January 10, 2006 Blew out candle and took the temps.....80z JJ (Near bottom) with about an inch of wax left to burn ... 15216ox JJ on 3rd burn, 138 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeB Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 For what it's worth...maybe two cents? LOL...If you got a melt pool to reach 175, your whole candle would be melted as I see it. I've tried to measure mine and when I blow out the wick and take the MP temp, I have a hard time getting to 140. Anyone else ever try and take the temp? Just wondering as someone on another forum said it takes about 150 in soy to get a real good throw. So far, I've never gotton that high. BethThe standard is for the temperature of the container, not the melt pool.In all my searching back in August I could find no regulations on the safety of candles. All I could find was a regulation that the net weight of the candle must be on the label.As far as I know the ASTM standards are voluntary.There was however a petition filed by the NASTM in 2004, it has yet to be acted on.In case anyone is interested:The petition can be found here:http://www.cpsc.gov/library/foia/foia04/petition/peti.htmlThe blank pages are ASTM standards, ASTM would not give the CPSC permission to publish them as part of the document.Testimony at the hearing by the representative for the NCA can be found here:http://commerce.senate.gov/hearings/testimony.cfm?id=1267&wit_id=3680Status can be found here:http://www.cpsc.gov/businfo/frnotices/fr06/semi.htmlASTM standards must be purchased, the fire safety standard is $29.00, warning label standard is $29.00 and the testing method standard for emissions from burning candles is $34.00.I don't know if the jar temperature is part of the fire safety standard or not. If I can't pick up a container with my bare hands if is not good enough for me. I did see something mentioned in the petition that a flame should be no more that 3 inches high. I will not burn or make a candle with a flame that high. I have thrown away many purchased candles that burned with flames like that. Maybe my personal standards are too high? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning Bug Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 How do you measure a jar temperature? Just hold a thermometer against the glass outside? Just wondering as safety is always the first issue. Thanks. Beth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth-VT Posted January 11, 2006 Share Posted January 11, 2006 Deciding what is acceptable for a container temp is pretty subjective. For example.....hot water running through a copper pipe at about 140 degrees is too hot to keep your hand on for more than a couple seconds. DO you limit your container temp to 140? That's pretty darn low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeB Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I use 16 oz and 10 oz apothecary jars, glass is a very poor conductor of heat. I get full melt pools and good scent throw, the jars get hot as they burn down but not too hot to pick up. And like I said that is my personal standard. I am sure that tins would get too hot to pick up which is why I choose not to use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainey Posted January 16, 2006 Author Share Posted January 16, 2006 Okay, I was testing one of those very shallow heart shaped glass containers with 2 wicks and it heated up pretty good (more than I would like). Even so, I was able to carry it to another spot. Although -- everyone knows that candles/containers should never be touched or moved while burning, I still wanted to test it out. I did try wicking down one size but it seemed like the container was even hotter. After 4 hours, the temp of the container was 115 and the melt pool was 157. I let it burn until it extinguished on its own. Hot throw was very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geekrunner Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Funny I just saw this thread, and I had one of my new customers provide feedback on the jar temp of a recent purchase. She said she was fearful of getting burned when touching it, not necssarily her but if her kids touched it. Jar here is a 32 oz Empire square snap lid from Connie's Candles. I theorized that it was because I had double wicked and set the wicks too far apart, thus overheating the glass by the flames. I tested it with the wicks set at 1.5" apart in the 4.25" jar with 3.5" opening.Now I'm testing soy and J50 in the jar , using zinc cored in the J50 and spacing at 3/4" instead of 1.5", moving the flames inward. After one 2.5 hour burn, I could hold the neck of the jar with both hands and it was hot, but not unbearable and not hot enough to burn. I'll then light one with 1.5" spacing and see how hot that one is.Very interesting subject indeed.geek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainey Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 I think you're on to something Geek! Your theory makes total sense. I've noticed that when a wick bends.... that part of the glass container is usually much hotter than any other area. I measured my wicks and they are one and one-half inches apart. I was able to wick down a couple of sizes without compromising the melt pool and throw, but the container is still hot. I'll try moving the wicks closer together and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geekrunner Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 I just finished a burn on the previous jars with 1.5" wick spacing and they got really HOT! Tried soy with 2 x HTP126 at 3/4" and it was reall hot also! After another burn test with J50 and 3/4" spacing it still is running much cooler and 3/8" MP after four hours. Soy jar is MC with 3% BW, 4% load of MillCreek Clothesline Fresh, one J50 is 4% Clothesline Fresh and 2 x 51z, and the other J50 is 4% Peak's Clean Cotton and 2 x 51z. Definitely will wick down to 2 x HTP1212 and see what happens.geek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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