Lianne Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 (edited) Hello!I am a first-time poster; I appreciate all that I have learned from reading through these threads. I am experiencing a flickering flame half way through burning my 2 3/4 X 3 3/4 square pillar. The candle is 90% feather palm and 10% GW 444 soy with CDN 14 wick. Initially the candle burns so nicely with a melt pool leaving about 3/8-1/2 inch rim of wax around the top of the candle...but when the burn is about 1/2 way down the candle, the flame begins to flicker and it lopsidedly melts away that rim. I have been burning in 2-3 hour increments, no more, and trimming the wick to 1/4" prior to each burn. I am also conscientious about drafts. Would appreciate any insights.Thank You! Edited February 26, 2013 by Lianne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chefmom Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 If the pillar is not consuming the top edges as it burns down, but leaves a solid rim while the melt pool has that rim the whole time then it's just because of the change in air flow.We see the same thing in containers, the first half the flame is steady and then once the wax works its way down halfway the flame starts to do its little dance. The Physical Laws of Convection my smart a$$ air flow HVAC husband of mine tells me.I personally don't work with palm, I have a test bag but I haven't had the chance to play yet. I work in paraffin, beeswax and I've been playing with soy blended pillars as well and I try to have them fully consume. However when that flame burns down into the center, with a solid rim the flame does dance and can blow out the sides and do other undesirables. Hopefully other palmies can chime in!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emilyspoppy Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 If the pillar is not consuming the top edges as it burns down, but leaves a solid rim while the melt pool has that rim the whole time then it's just because of the change in air flow.We see the same thing in containers, the first half the flame is steady and then once the wax works its way down halfway the flame starts to do its little dance. The Physical Laws of Convection my smart a$$ air flow HVAC husband of mine tells me.I personally don't work with palm, I have a test bag but I haven't had the chance to play yet. I work in paraffin, beeswax and I've been playing with soy blended pillars as well and I try to have them fully consume. However when that flame burns down into the center, with a solid rim the flame does dance and can blow out the sides and do other undesirables. Hopefully other palmies can chime in!!Good answer, in my opinion. I agree. The tendancy for all candle waxes to do this is common. Palm wax "blow-outs" can be more of a problem than with many other waxes, though. Because palm wax is so brittle by nature it is difficult to "hug" the pillar through it's "life" cycle. Paring down the tops of the pillar can leave an unsightly appearance, and I would never trust any customer to treat them properly as they are being comsumed. I like the looks and throw of palm, but now I only produce it for my own use as votives in heavy glass holders. Wicking down may help some, but I gave up several years ago trying to make pillars for sale.I'm too chicken and too lazy to keep swimming upstream, trying to wick the more difficult chandlering projects.I'm sure there are very many members who will not agree. I'm glad there are so many more persistant and talanted candle makers out there than me. The candle world would be quite boring if we all only made the same type of candles.Good luck!JMO/HTHDave @ Charlotte Hall Country Candles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lianne Posted February 27, 2013 Author Share Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) Thank you so much for your feedback! In my perusing of threads, I saw a picture that Stella had posted of a round palm wax pillar candle that burned all the way down leaving a nice rim...would anyone venture an opinion as to whether Stella's candle burned down with an intact rim because of the shape of the candle (my candle is square, Stella's round). (Stella, hoping you are reading this)...I should add that the flickering is not a problem to me in and of itself, but it is the flickering that is eating away at the rim/sides. Edited February 27, 2013 by Lianne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emilyspoppy Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Thank you so much for your feedback! In my perusing of threads, I saw a picture that Stella had posted of a round palm wax pillar candle that burned all the way down leaving a nice rim...would anyone venture an opinion as to whether Stella's candle burned down with an intact rim because of the shape of the candle (my candle is square, Stella's round). (Stella, hoping you are reading this)...I should add that the flickering is not a problem to me in and of itself, but it is the flickering that is eating away at the rim/sides.I thought I'd add to this topic and bump up the thread for you so Stella might see it and chime in. I'll bet she wouldn't mind a PM from you if she doesn't notice this thread.Depending on the height and width of her pillar, (You didn't mention the size.) my guess is she burned it under ideal conditions and underwicked it perfectly to acheive good sidewalls.BTW; I do think that round candles of all types burn with fewer issues than those made in other shapes. JMHO - PLEASE, NO HATE MAIL! (lol)One of my concerns with making pillars is getting customers to burn them properly. I believe that any candle outside of a perfectly sized and well constructed container is more subject to "issues" by inept users than those in containers.I'm far from the "cutting edge" of candle making and so very far back in the pack when it comes to modern chandlering "trends" that I'm ashamed to even post on this board most of the time.There are SO MANY younger (and same aged) expert chandlers here that it's intimidating at times to jump into discussions that I know I have limited experience in the topic.On the other-hand I believe you should post when you feel you might have something to offer, regardless of what 10,000 (YIKES!) others might think. I'd rather be known as a foolish old fogey than a lazy old lurker!I started working with palm wax when it first became available. As I recall palm made a significant commotion in the candle community, but since then it has seemed to fall from "interest" quite a bit.I think that anyone working with it for any amount of time will concede that palm wax makes a very attractive candle and when fragranced and wicked well, makes a great throwing candle too; Both hot and cold. The major problem is the brittleness of the wax makes it a monster to work with outside of containers. No candle medium that I'm aware of has a greater propensity for sink holes following pouring. This tendency is annoying, but solvable, though.The larger issue is; The taller the project the more difficult it is to keep it from "blowing out" the sidewalls on free-standing candles. Even a butterfly's breath will cause sidewall damage. I'm just not up to selling an item that is so risky for the average consumer to safely and conveniently use. I think that there must be other chandlers out there with similar opinions, because I've noticed that even some of the better stocked suppliers have discontinued selling some or all of the palm wax types which are available.Regardless of this, I still feel that the home crafter/end-user can safely work with this wax and reap the enjoyment from it's traits while coping with it's quirks. It just means that extra caution has to be practiced while the free-standing candle is being consumed by flame.I started making "traditional" candles over 30 years ago. I've worked with all known "older" candle mediums and I have to admit that palm wax is near the top of my list for appearance and throw, but near the very bottom when it comes to safety and convenience. Only tallow and gel fail to surpass palm in this category in my workshop. OOPS! Sorry gellers! I'm gel inept!Wouldn't it be great if someone in the candle wax industry or perhaps on this board could perform some blending magic and tame the "beautiful, but brittle beast" ???JMODave @ Charlotte Hall Country Candles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChandlerWicks Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 She Gone! I had to, that's from DD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emilyspoppy Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 (edited) She Gone! I had to, that's from DD!I'm confused . . . even more than usual !!!Who's "gone" ?Dave Edited March 3, 2013 by emilyspoppy punctuation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChandlerWicks Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 (edited) I thought I'd add to this topic and bump up the thread for you so Stella might see it and chime in. I'll bet she wouldn't mind a PM from you if she doesn't notice this thread.I'm confused . . . even more than usual !!!Who's "gone" ?DaveI love Duck Dynasty & the "She Gone" part comes from the show! Anyway, it's been a very long time since she has written on the forum. But I think the poster can still PM her. Edited March 3, 2013 by ChandlerWicks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emilyspoppy Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 (edited) I thought I'd add to this topic and bump up the thread for you so Stella might see it and chime in. I'll bet she wouldn't mind a PM from you if she doesn't notice this thread.I love Duck Dynasty & the "She Gone" part comes from the show! Anyway, it's been a very long time since she has written on the forum. But I think the poster can still PM her.I guess I'll have to give up my membership, but I cannot tell a lie. My mom taught me it was a sin to fib!I've never, ever watched a single episode of Duck Dynasty. I only "learned" about it in the Off-Topic Forum on this board.About two years ago, I got super pi**ed off with the local cable TV company. At the same time my wife and I realized how much time we were wasting in front of the boob tube. We now limit ourself to watching no more than about 2 hours of TV per day. We watch older movies on DVD or VHS (OUCH) !!! The local thrift shop sells used VHS tapes @ 8/$1.00. (No kidding!) My wife shops there every Sunday after church and keeps us well entertained for next to nothing. We resell the "watched" tapes at our shop for $1.00 each or 6/$5.00. Some of them, however, command higher prices. They wind up on eBay. There are quite a few "collectables" even in VHS if you know what to look for.The biggest problem with no cable is I'm stuck with a dial-up ISP, but I'm working on that.Dave Edited March 3, 2013 by emilyspoppy stupidity and fatique Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChandlerWicks Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Uh Oh, now I have to go digging in boxes for VHS tapes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emilyspoppy Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Uh Oh, now I have to go digging in boxes for VHS tapes!My wife, Betty, just returned with 16 VHS tapes that cost us $2.12. We're too embarrassed to use our sales tax number at the thrift shop! You do remember that Maryland has a 6% sales tax I'm sure!About half of the movies were "chick flicks" and the other half were war movies. What a girl I married!She can watch the war films and I'll dig out a box of Kleenex as I entertain my feminine side. (NOT!)Actually a few do look collectable. Search to be taken soon! HEY! Ya' gotta make it when ya' can!Good luck with your "search"!Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChandlerWicks Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Yes, I love 6% sales tax. Tn. is almost 10%, they don't have state taxes so..... but at the time you purchase it feels terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emilyspoppy Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Yes, I love 6% sales tax. Tn. is almost 10%, they don't have state taxes so..... but at the time you purchase it feels terrible.NO STATE TAX!!!!!!Can you find me a cheap house in your neighborhood!Maryland has state and county taxes. I hate this state sometimes. If my wife was retired we would sell and move to lower and eastern Delaware. NO SALES TAX! No jobs to speak of either, but a couple of nice flea markets and the ocean quite nearby.Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChandlerWicks Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 We could switch! The house isn't cheap for this area, but compared to Md. prices you could buy 2 or 3 of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emilyspoppy Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 We could switch! The house isn't cheap for this area, but compared to Md. prices you could buy 2 or 3 of them.According to W.S. "Tis better to suffer the ills we have than to fly to others that we know not of!"Besides; I hate packing!Thanks though!"Dave the Thread Hijacker" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChandlerWicks Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Ain't that the truth! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emilyspoppy Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Ain't that the truth!Including my title!Me (again) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChandlerWicks Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 All of the above! Sorry OP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lianne Posted March 3, 2013 Author Share Posted March 3, 2013 By the way, Stella did PM me Thanks, All! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emilyspoppy Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 By the way, Stella did PM me Thanks, All! GREAT!Any info or advice you'd care to pass on?TIADave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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