missywick Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 (edited) I just wanted to post here to see how many people would be interested in a public record of "problem"customers, scammers, free sample divas, and trouble makers that could affect your business in a negative way. In the next few weeks I'm creating multiple public pages on the internet that will be available to crafters and business owners only. These pages may or may not show in search engines. A better business guide for customers you may not want to enter into a business transaction with. A blackball list. I don't know about the rest of you but I'm sick of those woman from last night. I'm tired of how much trouble they cause and how easily they can attack and negatively impact your business on a whim with social media. It's our fault because we indulge them and it needs to change. I'm sure not everyone will agree or welcome the idea with open arms and it's your choice to read it or not. I wanted to poll to ask if anyone would like to contribute factual information for the sites I'm building. It will be done anonymously so those women don't attack your business. My ultimate goal is if enough complaints are made and a merchant group gets large enough maybe at some point we can eliminate them permanently. Things I looked up. If it's true it's not slander. If it's already available to the public in all cases these woman make it public with social media, it's not a violation of privacy. Those were the 2 major hurdles that could be argued. Please PM me with any details you would like to add. Edited December 29, 2012 by missywick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeanie353 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I personally find it unappealing for several reasons. Putting people's names out there as a blackball list just sits with me wrong. Also, there are two sides to every story. I will enter into a business transaction with a said to be a problem person until I judge for myself if that person has just gained an unfair label or if they are indeed a trouble maker. Then make future decisions on whether to sell to them again based on the specific transaction.I also think there could be a slander possibilities. Who is going to judge who is telling the truth? Just because it hit the social media doesn't eliminate slander issues imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulberrysoap Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Umm, this I think would not be a good idea, customers are customers, we all are.In the business world which we are all in, in some shape or form a list like this does not exist, what happens is that word gets around certain customers and it is down to the supplier if they wish to service them. Companies like Coca Cola, Carols Daughter etc etc all have customers, suppliers they will not do business with, it's business. So to compile a list of 'bad customers' I do not think is the right way to go and is very murky and messy. Keep doing great work and it will all come good :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deb426 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 What makes a bad customer? what puts you on the list? A bad check? Maybe someone fell on hard times. Lack of communication? Maybe there was a death in the family. Because they didn't like your product? They're entitled to their opinion. Because they want you to bend over backwards for them? I have customers who are huge PITAs but I would never want them on any kind of list. That's just how they are and its up to me to deal with them or not deal with them. Also, it takes two to make a transaction. A customer may be a huge jerk to one vendor and sweet as pie to another, depending on how she is treated by the vendor. If a customer does one vendor wrong in one transaction, it doesn't necessarily mean that she or he will do the same with every transaction. There are always a whole set of circumstances that make up the transaction and like someone else said, two sides to every story. And whats to stop a vendor from just out and out lying about someone to get them on the list just to make their life miserable because they are personal enemies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leisa2003 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 (edited) I have seen missywicks fb group she created and its not a list of names for vendors to refuse to sell too, its a page very similar to The Better Business Bureau, only this is like warning vendors of scammers and those who try to, well, whatever they can to get some freebies, "problems", etc. I have seen many vendors from this board listed in that Wax Review Group and vendors are not even allowed to go in to tell their side of the story after the fact (thats why it states in their groups description "vendors are encouraged not to join", and if at that moment, they are "trashing" a vendor, the vendor is denied to join (imagine that). Like you said there is two sides to every story and vendors as well as buyers have the right to defend themselves and their business as well. If these girls were your BIG scammers they wouldn't have used their real names to begin with, but they did and they continue to do so and without remorse for their actions. Would you want to be a vendor who sells to one of these ladies and they get your IP address through a Paypal payment or vise-versa, and, well, because the package got lost or they weren't happy with their order for some reason, they take your IP address and find out your personal info and air it to the world through social-media. The one lady that I seen this sorta thing happen too, is VERY WELL KNOWN ON THIS BOARD and has a BIG name, and these women weren't happy JUST because their friends told them they weren't happy with this seller, so two of the women in this group harrassed this lady for a refund while their packages were in transit,..the vendor refunded them because they were making a YT video and mentioned her business in the video and she just couldn't handle it and refunded them and they also got their packages. A few of these ladies have been mentioned before (by other members of this board) as a sorta "heads-up" and they are still there using their same personal names with no care what-so-ever that we know who they are. So the buyer has the right to their side of the story and they are sure SHARING THEIR SIDE OF THE STORY, look at the blog that was originally posted at a earlier date, they went as far as creating a blog to share their side of the story,..well Vickie from VDC deserves to share her side of the story on her own, without people copying & pasting "EDITED" QUOTES that appeared to be factual words from Victoria, yet they weren't. I dont see anything wrong with a sorta "BETTER CUSTOMER BUREAU". Remember- TWO SIDES TO EVERY STORY and even the business's have the right to their side of the story. Edited December 29, 2012 by leisa2003 added Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cindym Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 (edited) Just run your business with integrity. Treat your customers the way you would like to be treated as a customer.For me, it just takes away from the enjoyment I get from producing a product that I love producing.Stay off the social networks.And do not get into a debate with a customer via email. Keep it simple. Edited December 29, 2012 by cindym Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leisa2003 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Just run your business with integrity. Treat your customers the way you would like to be treated as a customer.For me, it just takes away from the enjoyment I get from producing a product that I love producing.Stay off the social networks.And do not get into a debate with a customer via email. Keep it simple.And I have to say: I AGREE WITH YOU 100%. This is why I dont sell online to the public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeanie353 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 (edited) I guess a question I have is when is a YT video OK? I've been following these things for a couple days now and have not ran across any that give anything but rave reviews expecially on Victoria. These women have paid for their hauls. I am aware there are women who get freebies from companies for all kinds of products to review on their blogs and YT. Problem is the company gives them to them so they run a risk. It is not only the wax community that gets some bad reviews. I'm new to the wax thing but not to makeup hauls and some other type hauls and the products do not all get good reviews. The brands range from very high end to low end drug store type. Many, many high end products get bad reviews and I don't see them with a black list or being a mini BBB.There's always going to be a bad apple or apples in the bunch that want to cause drama or trouble of some sort and I feel bad for anyone this happens to. It could happen to me some day as well. I think it might be best to spread the word quietly through the community instead of listing names and risking a slander suit or just finding a level above what the women who are being complained about are doing. I don't see where listing names of those listing names solves anything. Its like bashing the bashers.I think I know the person on this board you are talking about and that is a shame b/c I feel she would only put out an excellent product. I haven't walked in those shoes yet so won't pretend to understand what she went through.ETA: I got that some ppl are not only causing trouble with the free melts or paid melt hauls but also when buying a product. Only chose to talk about part of the problem because its just too early in the morning Edited December 29, 2012 by jeanie353 additional Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leisa2003 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 (edited) Jeanie353, I agree with you. And when I was shared the fb group missywick created, there is no list of names in that group, it seems to be a place where business's can share their stories is all, just like those who share their buyer beware stories. And as for slander, I dont know the legalities of slander, but it seems it would be tougher for a buyer who scammed, harrassed or threatened a business to win a slander suit against the business for sharing their story. I don't think a lawyer would waste his time on someone who is pissed because they scammed a business and their scam was told.ETA: Jeanie353,..I will PM you a YT video. Edited December 29, 2012 by leisa2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeanie353 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 ETA: Jeanie353,..I will PM you a YT video. kk...ty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missywick Posted December 29, 2012 Author Share Posted December 29, 2012 Like I said it's your choice or not to be a part of it. The group is secret, so you're not able to view it or it's members unless you are invited and become a member for your own protection. If you have 20 people state they had one person pull the same scam on their business's it's an issue. It should be noted to allow people that want to know, to decide for themselves if they want to take a calculated risk and do business with them or not. Amazon, Ebay, etc all have a feedback system. Just saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Like I said it's your choice or not to be a part of it. The group is secret, so you're not able to view it or it's members unless you are invited and become a member for your own protection. If you have 20 people state they had one person pull the same scam on their business's it's an issue. It should be noted to allow people that want to know, to decide for themselves if they want to take a calculated risk and do business with them or not. Amazon, Ebay, etc all have a feedback system. Just sayingI think the problem most are having with the idea is that it seems to be one-sided, whereas Ebay, for example, offers feedback on both ends of the transaction. I just envision someone getting invited that will end up stirring up trouble playing both sides of the fence, kwim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leisa2003 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 (edited) Well here is the link to that group just incase anyone of you who are a vendor would like to join, your not asked to post or share anything, your free to be a lurker to just be aware of a scam that may be going around.https://www.facebook.com/groups/blackballlist/388358044589520/?notif_t=group_comment_reply#!/groups/blackballlist/ETA: the link wont be active long because it will soon be in "secret" mode, as I was told. Edited December 29, 2012 by leisa2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodle Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 (edited) whereas Ebay, for example, offers feedback on both ends of the transaction.FYI, this is not topic related, but Ebay certainly does NOT offer feedback for both ends of the transaction. A seller has no idea if a customer is a problem based on displayed feedback. A seller is ONLY able to leave positive feedback on Ebay. Ebay changed their feedback system in 2008 which is the main reason why I quit selling there. I do not agree with seller blackmail using negative feedback to spite a buyer who left it for them, but Ebay's current feedback system stinks. There has to be a better way and Ebay has not found it.That said, I prefer to run my business based on the numerous positive selling experiences that I have had. I certainly have had my share of difficult cutomers. However, they are my difficult customers and I would rather just move on and keep my own short personal private list. Edited December 29, 2012 by Noodle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missywick Posted December 29, 2012 Author Share Posted December 29, 2012 (edited) Everyone that wants to join will have to friend me on Facebook I'll add you once you're approved. http://www.facebook.com/bernie.wicks.5 The group is marked as secret to protect the members from being harassed. No one can see you or even know it exists except the members within the group. Edited December 29, 2012 by missywick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 FYI, this is not topic related, but Ebay certainly does NOT offer feedback for both ends of the transaction. A seller has no idea if a customer is a problem based on displayed feedback. A seller is ONLY able to leave positive feedback on Ebay. Ebay changed their feedback system in 2008 which is the main reason why I quit selling there. I do not agree with seller blackmail using negative feedback to spite a buyer who left it for them, but Ebay's current feedback system stinks. There has to be a better way and Ebay has not found it.That said, I prefer to run my business based on the numerous positive selling experiences that I have had. I certainly have had my share of difficult cutomers. However, they are my difficult customers and I would rather just move on and keep my own short personal private list.Yes, but on ebay, the seller can at least get some help from ebay itself, whereas independent candle folks have no one to assist in a bad transaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodle Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Yes, but on ebay, the seller can at least get some help from ebay itself, whereas independent candle folks have no one to assist in a bad transaction. Agreed. However, the help from Ebay has absolutely nothing to do with the feedback system at all. Everything about the seller is made public, whereas everything about the buyer is kept private. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeanie353 Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Agreed. However, the help from Ebay has absolutely nothing to do with the feedback system at all. Everything about the seller is made public, whereas everything about the buyer is kept private.And once a loony buyer leaves a negative the seller is stuck with it. We had one of those. Sold literally hundreds of the same item and had 99.9% excellent feedback on the item. This guy comes along and leaves a neg saying the product was cheap. Ummmm...no it was not. It was a Snap On item. The only recourse I had was to put a reply on the negative feedback and its now been 12 months so its off the grid. But I agree eBay was not thinking of the sellers who they get all their money from when they made that rule. And its unfair.OK...rant over. Sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missywick Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 Just a rough draft. http://ablacklistforvendors.blogspot.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mala Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Interesting. You should post why the worst offenders are on that list, no? It would be informative to know why to avoid them in particular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leisa2003 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 (edited) Ok!!!! I am going to post because I have gotten my local police involve (days ago) in this and now someone sent missywick a message saying her father is a lawyer and because of missywicks blogs about who to becareful of selling to. Let me share this. YOU ALL IN THAT GROUP ARE NOT I repeat NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERYONE IN THAT GROUP and I AM AWARE OF THAT. But you also should know what a few members of the group you are in has done. I am shaking after the "threat" of a lawsuit against missywick because of names on a damn list. Anyways, WHEN A MEMBER OF YOUR GROUP CONTACTED MY 10 YEAR OLD SON and scares the hell out of him on Facebook to where he does not even want to go to school is BULLSHIT!! Sharing in that group my HOME ADDRESS (even if it was found online somehow) was a LOW SHOT. I have to fear that some damn lunitic who got pist and filed a paypal claim over not getting their package within a weeks time now has my home address and knows my 10 year old sons name and where he attends school. I had to delete my online business,..EVERYTHING except this board because of a few idiot Bit$Hs who didnt get their wax within ONE week, it wasn't even a week. GO TO H$LL!!! TELL YOUR LAWYER DADDY TO GO FOR IT....I will COUNTER-SUE (and I am not even the one who created the blogs) but I will counter-sue for harrassing and scaring the HELL OUT OF A 10 YEAR OLD BOY because YOUR BUDDIES in that GROUP weren't happy you didnt get your package and it hadn't even been a week. GO FOR IT!!!SORRY, BUT I AM TIRED OF THE THREATS. NO-ONE FROM ANY GROUP CONTACTED YOUR CHILD like they had mine (GET OVER YOURSELVES),..AND LEAVE ME THE H$LL ALONE AND MY KIDS!ETA: YOU ALREADY HAVE MY HOME ADDRESS, NO NEED to send it to Missywick, HAVE YOUR LAWYER DADDY SEND ME THE LAWSUIT and I will be expecting it. Edited January 2, 2013 by leisa2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leisa2003 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 (edited) I am pist,..I have to get off here and go calm down!!!!!!!!!!! Edited January 2, 2013 by leisa2003 upset Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChandlerWicks Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Contact FB about your son, they should beable to help you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leisa2003 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 (edited) Contact FB about your son, they should beable to help you.We deleted his account already. My local police advised us to do so a week or so ago, but we do have everything printed and names and they knew he was a minor (13 for FB) and his profile pic was his picture of (a 10 yr. old) they should have known better, the police officer seen it before it was deleted. And I'm not saying at 10 yrs old he wont go to a friends house and try to make a new one, you know how kids can be. I didnt know he even had an acct. until he felt he should show me those messages. And so we had a officer have a very long talk with him about how its not safe for kids online these days.ETA: You know kids are scared enough going to school with all the school shootings, and now you get adults online who are upset they didnt get their package in a weeks time so they tell the kid they know his (our) home address and where he attends school. I'm so done with this online crap, its not worth it.ETS: A buyer complains its like we are "told/taught" to do all we can to make things right for the customer, customers are #1, but where do we draw the line, no vendor should get attacked or slandered because one or two buyers arent happy or that THEIR BUDDIES arent happy and they have to "FIT IN" with their buddies,...so they go tell the whole internet world about you and about your personal life or information. JUST SAYING!! ( and I know its chances you take selling online to begin with). Edited January 2, 2013 by leisa2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulberrysoap Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 That is awful, it's bad enough doing this to another person but to a child SMH!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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