BLSoaps

I actually just recently added a pricing formula to my website recently. I've handed out this formula to so many people over the years, I figured it'd just be easiest to add it to a 'public' place for reference. You should be able to find it here.

http://www.soapersworkshop.com/store/index.php?page=Product%20Pricing%20Formula

It's a great system for helping you calculate out all your costs, including ingredients, labor, overhead, profit, wholesale and retail. Hope it helps!

I just noticed you're from the UK. Do you do bath & body stuff, or just candles? I need to find a B&B person over there to pick their mind about the regs and testing requirements....

I'm using a modified OsCommerce site, but I luckily had a lot of help moving through all of it from my hosting company.

I'm hoping someone from the UK will let me pick their brain for a little bit about your regulations & testing requirements on B&B over there. If you have Yahoo Messenger, I'll be online for several more hours today (Sunday), and most of tomorrow. (lindsay_goodwin@yahoo.com)

Or feel free to email me or PM. Thanks!

Setting up shipping on a website is always a challenge. You'll never get it set up so it's exact. I've worked with several web hosts & carts, and I'm very pleased with how accurate the shipping cart on my new one is (even had one order accurate to the penny!).

Some cart you can add a "tared" weight that all orders start with. As an example, your cart automatically starts with 8 oz (box & packing materials). Then your customer adds a 16 oz candle, and a 4 oz bar of soap. The shipping will be calculated for 28 oz, not the 20 oz of just the product weight.

I originally had my cart set up this way, but I just pulled the starting weights off. It kept overcharging, especially for small orders. I can only calculate as 10ths of a pound. So I make sure my items are rounded up, not down. Example again... my soaps weigh between 4 & 5 oz. 5 ounces comes out to 0.3125 lbs. Since I can only put in 0.X amount, I put in 0.4 lbs. With several items in the cart rounded up like this, the weight of the box with the items end up being pretty accurate.

It's something you'll need to play around with. No cart is perfect. You just want something that's pretty accurate most of the time. On some orders you'll lose money, and others you may have a little extra. Just try to get it as close as possible, and with what works best for you.

There are some legit companies out there than import american made items to china. It's a specialty market. The ones I've seen and talked to are distributers. You usually ship them to a broker in the US, proabably CA, and they take it from there.

I have a wholesale account in Taiwan, and I asked a lot of these questions in the beginning too. From what I've been told, buying "Made in the USA" is a huge thing over there.

I deal with a local person for the actual sales though. I don't have to worry about shipping at all, and I've always thought it funny, but he even pays state taxes on them. When I asked him about getting me paperwork to waive the taxes, he said not to worry about it. Because it was international, it's more complicated than just getting a tax id number, and that the last thing they wanted to do was get me in trouble with the government. So they pay taxes.

For my shipping, the guy that buys from me, he usually places an order right before he knows he's going over there, and he takes it over with him. Now my account is solely for my lip balms, so he can take several hundred over with him, and easily fit it in his luggage. But I know they also ship my stuff over there a lot too.

My advice, ask a lot of questions. I was completely open with my ignorance in doing anything international. Because of that, they walked me through a lot of it. IMO, it's better to admit you're ignorant in the spirit of being taught, than to end up looking ignorant while you tried to make it look like you weren't. Ask them who's expected to pay shipping, freight, customs, etc charges. If it's you, make sure you're covered for ALL of it in your invoice to them. The biggest concern I see in you paying for all of this is that it's sometimes hard to estimate ahead of time. See if they have a contact person state side that you can work with, and also ship to.

Good luck! It's a little mind boggling to think about jumping into the international ring, isn't it!

I'm not awake enough to comment much on the names (I had a rough night), but wanted to toss in my two cents with the clear labels. I've read through all the threads since yesterday about your logo design, and just wanted to mention a couple things.

As someone who prints on clear labels for her retail line, during your creation period, print off some labels. Try out the different colors for the different scents. And then actually put those labels ON your product to see how they look. I, too, love the color fades. Or in your case with the pink/brown blending together. HOWEVER, I've also learned that they don't always print out how they look on the monitor. I liked the last logo design (the pink/brown combo), where the circles formed an oval around the design. But seeing it printed on clear labels could make or break it.

Also, I know someone mentioned about limiting the white/empty space on your labels, and I couldn't disagree more actually. It's actually hard to leave white space alone, but in a lot of cases, leaving it alone is a very good thing. It helps draw attention to your focal points, points that would have gotten lost if you filled in all the empty spaces. So don't be afraid of empty spaces.

(just as an example of how empty space can help draw your eye to something more specific)

Last comment I had was about your name. I know you said you're only making candles. A lot of people start out with only one item, especially chandlers, and then end up expanding into the B&B. I see it happen more often than not, even with those who said they never would. I'd probably try to keep a more neutral name so that the B&B fits in down the road. I know, I'm sounding hypocritical, considering I have "Soaps" in my company name, and we sell more than soaps. We haven't expanded into candles, I'd love to, but won't with kids still at home. When they're all in school, I'll re-evaluate, and decide then. Will my name conflict with selling candles? Yeah, it might. But it's done already, and we've been operating under the name for quite some time. But with just starting out, you can plan for these contingencies, even if you're not planning on ever doing B&B.

These are just my thoughts! I love what you're trying to incorporate into your logo! It's always a crazy process, sometimes painful, often discouraging, but when you find it, and you know it's right, it's all worth it! It's been exciting to watch you move through everything!

Not sure on how much Poly you'll need, but I can answer that you'll want to use the Phenonip, not the Germaben. The Germaben is best in formulas with both oil & water. Phenonip is good with all oil blends.

HOWEVER, when you add the polysorbate, you'll actually want to switch preservatives once again to Optiphen Plus. Polysorbates can make Paraben based preservatives break down over time, eventually rendering them ineffective.

I hope it goes well for you!

That's a good question! I haven't read much about dry ice, is it expensive? Would that be more costly to ship because it's then hazardous materials?

I think it depends on the quantity of dry ice used in the shipment. It DOES need to be marked, because if it leaks, it could burn anyone who touched it. So PLEASE look into the regulations on this if you choose this as an option.

I saw that someone just listed Uline's cold packs. They might be a little more expensive, but from everything I've heard about them, they are top quality, and completely legal to ship (considering that's what they're made for).

Gee, I called them, and REQUESTED information. My info was taken, and I was told a rep would call me back. This was on Monday, and I still haven't heard from them. When you call them, will you ask them to call me, too???

I guess I'm not really sure why you would? If they're a store front, and have asked for promotional material to put in with your display, I can understand that. But a typical brochure is for sales purposes. And most likely would result in people buying directly from you, rather than through the store. I can't imagine a store owner wanting that.

But an informational brochure, I can see that. Basically touting the benefits of your products, but not listing the products like you would in a catalog. If you were able to include her shop contact info on these as well, it could be a wonderful promotional material for her as well. However, the cost of these can definitely add up. If she asks for something like this, I'd offer the first set free, then refills (like packs of 25), charge her for them. The paper, ink, and labor involved, well, you need to be paid for it, I think.

I hope this helped, and I hope I interpretted your question correctly!

Okay, sorry about that. Crazy morning, and I'm barely getting started! :rolleyes2

Here's the best way I've found to use MS Publisher to make labels. I'm going to assume you know nothing about Publisher, and go into great detail. If you know a lot of this, great, you've got a wonderful headstart! I know if I were teaching my husband (a great computer guru when it comes to tech stuff, but clueless with many of the programs I use frequently. ESPECIALLY Publisher), I'd need to go into these details. Basically, I'm treating this like I were teaching him.

• Open a blank sheet in Publisher. I'll occasionally use the templates they have for brochures and catalogs, but not for labels.
  
• I measure the label area on the container I'm working with (lotion bottle, jar, soap, candle, etc), and then open a text box with those dimensions. Since right now I'm currently printing on (clear) full sized sheets and then cutting them out, I also add a thin black border to this box. Usually 0.5 point, 0.75 at the most. This basically creates the boundaries I need to stay inside. The black border also gives me a better visual line for when I'm cutting.
  
• Then using text boxes, and the insert image function, I add the other elements to my label. All of my logo design work is resizable, yours should be as well as long as it's in jpeg or gif format. I have both.
  
• You'll want to familiarize yourself with the tools that pop up with the picture tool bar. The ones I use frequently are the overlapping tools. (shows a picture of a dog with various line styles around it). Most frequently, I use the "None." This allows me to put images and text right next to each other, sometimes even overlapping a little, without it automatically trying to bump out of the way. If you're not sure what I'm talking about, trying setting two lines of text very close to each other, and one should automatically shift it's text so they don't overlap. If you put both of their settings to none, they'll overlap, giving you complete control over their placement on the page.
  
• The other tool you'll have to mess around with is the order arrangement. If you do have items overlapping (especially text & a picture), you may need to make sure one element is in the top spot. Basically, think all of these elements like pieces of paper. You've got the base (the full sized 8.5x11 sheet) that's your foundation, and always stays in place. Then you have all these elements that you place on top of them. Most of them are like transparency sheets, but occasionally you'll add an element (in my case, usually a photo) that has a white background. If you have a text line that is close to this, you'll need to make sure that text box element is on top of the picture element. Otherwise that white background will cover up part of your text. Make sense?
  
• Once I have all the details of my label completed, I copy the entire thing, and then paste it to make duplicates on the page. I then can go into each label and change the scent name. I also recolor a few things based on the scent as well.
  
• I will often play with the page layout, using either portrait or landscape (8.5x11 then tipping it over making it 11x8.5). I can often fit more labels on the landscape setting. I play with it both ways, see which one I can fit more on.

That's most of it. If you have any questions, please feel free to holler!

I make all my labels in publisher, but I'm in the middle of something (just happened to spot this while I was waiting for something to finish uploading). I'll try to get back here asap, but if you don't hear from me later today, PM me. I've been using Publisher for this since I started out 4 years ago.

I know this thread has gotten a little off topic, and most of it has been focused on things you need to do during the start up, but I wanted to add this.

I wish we'd bought a laser printer right off the bat. We make & print all of our own labels, brochures, etc. The only thing we don't do is our business cards. We only invested in it this last February, and after playing with it for a while, we seriously wondered why in the world we waited as long as we did. It was definitely a decent chunk of change, but we viewed it as an investment in our business, and it has more than paid for itself.

Thank you! This should be what I'm looking for! I've bookmarked it, and will let my customer know. From their description, it sounds like it'll make for a very nice addition, too!

(still grumbling over the fact that National Starch STILL hasn't called back)

They specifically asked for potato starch. They live in Idaho, so it's a marketing thing, mostly geared towards tourists. I'm waiting to hear back from National Starch to see if they do something different to theirs (modified in some way for B&B applications). If not, I'll definitely take some of the suggestions I've gotten here. And thanks, Sharon, for the offer. Not sure if I'm taking you up on it yet, or not. Hopefully I'll hear back from them today.

Normally I'd recommend Columbus Foods, but for smaller quantities try Kangaroo Blue. I believe it's $5.00/lb, which is good for smaller quantities (i often see $7, $8 +).

I found lots of stuff too, but I need the modified starch so it can be incorporated into a lotion. Kind of like natrasorb is modified wheat starch. I've contacted National Starch, and they're going to have someone familiar with the product contact me, and hopefully a list of middle men supply companies that I can order from. I can't afford the minimums from National Starch, as this is a special request lotion ingredient. The weird requests that come out of Idaho (potato state)! But I love weird requests, so I certainly don't mind it. My oddest one was Buffalo Tallow. But apparently it's selling like crazy for her, so it all works! Talk about finding unique niches! LOL! But thanks for looking. I just was having problems finding a B&B supplier that sold it (as well as answer usage questions).

So I'm looking for a supplier for quantities less than a pound.

Honestly, that sounds insanely high. Especially since she isn't established. It sounds like she wants her vendors 'booth fees' to cover her expenses, which will leave her with little incentive to do much selling for you.

However, if there's no long term contract, I don't see the harm in trying this out for a month or two, as long there is nothing that will penalize you for pulling out without notice, or very little notice. I had a consignment store go bad on me, and I had to threaten reporting her to the BBB before I got my last 'paycheck' from her.

I'd talk seriously to your friend, before going into this. You'd need to have an agreement that either of you can pull out at any time, and with no hard feelings. If she's doing well, and you're not, you don't want to ruin your friendship by pulling out, forcing her to pull out. Or vice versa. I see more long term negative issues with sharing the booth with a friend than the lousy consignment details. If the consignment deal sucks, it's easy, you pull out. But you could run into problems with your friend, that as much as you might wish otherwise, could cause problems down the road.

I also wouldn't agree without a signed contract. Even if it's just detailing the consignment terms, and payment terms. Otherwise, if she's late paying you, you don't have a leg to stand on if you want to go after her.

What I'd probably consider, is seeing if she'll go for lower rates (I'd go booth rates, not the percentages part) for the first 1-3 months, until she has established business. Just being in a good location isn't enough.

Also, ask her what her advertising plans are. YOU DESERVE AND NEED to know this. I've seen a lot of these places open and close over the years, and it's usually due to lousy management from the business owners. If they had a full store, the vendor's rent usually covers all the owner's overhead costs (lease, electric, etc). But if they don't get buyers in there, they lose their crafters, because things aren't selling. And if they don't have enough crafters, they can't even cover their own expenses. They go in thinking it's easy money, but it's not.

I'd talk to the owner, she what she has planned for advertising, how she plans on bringing people in besides general foot traffic. You'll probably have a much better feel of things after that conversation. If she refuses to tell you, it's probably because she doesn't have anything planned, and doesn't want to admit it. And then I'd run as far away as I could.

And talk long and hard with your friend. Go through all the different scenarios you can think of, and how you'll want to deal with it.

Good luck, with whatever you decide to do!

(sorry if this sounded like an incredibly down response. There's a lot of risk in consignment, and most have rarely found it worth it. Some have though, which is why it isn't completely written off. But basically, doing consignment rather than wholesale makes things safe for the store owner. While I make more off of consignment, I'd choose wholesale anyday over consignment)

I print mini catalogs myself. We got a laser printer back in February, and some of the HP Presentation paper (glossy and a heavier weight), and they look awesome. I created a simple 8 page (prints both sides on 2 pages) catalog, folds in half. There are other options as well, paper wise. Trifold Brochures, even 4 fold (usually a longer paper 8/5 x 14, I think). The printer and the paper quality make the biggest difference, and obviously the photo quality WITHIN the catalog.

I didn't try to include everything, just some of our top sellers, and then invited them to come view our website for more product selection. This has always worked very well for me. Printing off two pages for a catalog doesn't cost me much, but still brings in a decent amount of business. In fact, DH took some to work last week, and one lady was so excited that she begged his cell phone from him on her break so she could call and place an order.

I think the biggest advantage to having a catalog with everything listed (and you wouldn't want to change your line up too much once you had these printed) would be for home parties. You'd be able to take less of a selection of products (making it easier on you), and still be able to share your whole line. If they're big and bulky catalogs, then you can make these so that they don't get to take them home. But I'd recommend having seasonal brochures, instead, that they can take with them. Stampin' Up works like this.

I guess if we knew what your intentions with this catalog were, we'd be able to offer more help. I know I wasn't exactly sure what you were wanting to do with them.

I know there are all kinds of different modified starches available for B&B products, but with them all sold under brand names. I keep coming across the wheat, but I'm hoping to get some help finding a potato starch.

Any help would be greatly appreciated (this would be for adding to a lotion).

Do you think they might be mixing up the trans fat thing with unsaponifiables?

My castille takes several days to unmold. It does take longer to trace, set up, harden, cure, etc. When I make it, I make as much as I can (12-15 lbs) so I don't have to make it nearly as often.

I actually like to let mine cure several months before selling. I've found it makes a big difference between getting slimy lather (not cured enough), and small tiny bubble lather. It's a wonderful soap, but takes forever to make, unmold, cure, etc....

I'm not going to touch upon the vegan thing, but as for a universal preservative, there's no such thing. There are a lot of factors in choosing a preservative. But here are a few simple factors that go into them

• pH levels

• oil or water preferences (some have to be blended with oil, while others only in water)
  
• Oil percentages (germaben II can be used in formulas with less than 25%, but when you go above 25% you should switch to Germaben IIE)
  
• I'm tired, and my kids have been total PITAs today, and I can't think of anything else. I know there is sooooo much more, but these are just a few key ones...

It'd be nice if there was one that would work with all, but it simply doesn't exist. Some are more broad spectrum in this than others, but I usually have 3-4 different preservatives on hand.