slow-burn

I don't think anyone's intent is to discourage you, however, we all feel it is important to encourage proper testing. We have had many that come on here thinking they are going to make a quick buck. New peeps are coming on every day, and some will actually make products to sell this holiday season. They either don't care, or don't want to test their products. When this happens, it gives all handmade products a bad name. I am constantly hearing, why are your products better than the last homemade one that I tried? Honestly, I can't answer that, however, I can safetly assure my customers, that I tested the heck out of them to ensure that my products are as safe as I can make them, and are made to the best of my ability. The way the consumer base views you is extremely important, not only to you, but to other chandlers as well. Getting a customer to buy a candle is fairly easy, but getting them to come back for another is where all the hard work lays :smiley2:

You can reuse jelly jars (not the rings) over and over and that's putting them in boiling water for long periods of time. If anyone can explain to me why it's dangerous I'd love to know.

A jelly jar candle with a flame can burn for 40 hours or more. Now if you take the same sized jelly jar, and submerge it into boiling water like you would for canning, it may be in the cooker for about 20 minutes under pressure. So I will give you an hour time frame since I don't know the exact temp a pressure cooker gets too. I know peeps reuse these every year for canning, HOWEVER, do you actually think the same jars last for 40 years? What I mean, is you can the jars one year, and wait until the next year. The same jar is not going to last for 40 canning seasons. There is no way, generally, you can use the jar for 5 times or so, but not 40. So if you look at the 40 hour burn time in a jelly or any container, you are already exceeding the canning process. I hope this made sense.

This is how I explain it to my customers that ask. And most of them have canned in the past, and understand where I am coming from. They know that after a few years, the jars will develop cracks during canning, which results in an unsealed or broken jar.

MY last line is :

Candles (in any form...chips, votives,jars etc) are like children and some men. They should have adult supervision at all times...in the case of the men another man does not qualify!!!!

ROFLMAO!!!! I am gonna have to borrow that one some time!!

for those that have the turk'n surf---

Does the element just sit in the inside then, so it would be submerged in wax?

How many pounds does it hold?

Does it melt like the presto?

I know, tons of questions, LOL!

I also put on mine

"Not Tested on Animals Only on Friends and Family"

I normally tell them that mine was not tested on animals, but has been tested on the IN-LAWS

Warning - The safety of this product has not been determined.

So the above statement must be on all lotion; body butter etc...... unless it has been scientifically tested? tia

From my understanding it does, unless you send out your products for batch testing. Honestly, my customers don't seem to mind that it is on there. It has not affected any of my sales.

I have used a couple of places. I am actually getting ready to place an order with uline for the cub size brown kraft bags with handle. If anyone is interested in getting some, let me know!!

This site should help:

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/cos-lab3.html

As I said before, we are NOT looking to get rich quick. Just thinking ahead before we get in too deep. We did have fun making the candles, and can't wait to try some more. We do not intend on selling any in the near future...we understand the risks, and definitely want to research into that more. We also had a good time making the lotion...and trying it out on friends. Thanks for the replies and info...keep it coming!

Oh...and we do have a definite "interest in the craft", as our husbands are soybean farmers. So our main interest is in soy, specifically.

I didn't realize you had tested lotion already In your first post, you were still discussing how much $ you would make. Did you get some to test in the mean time? If so, then you should know of some suppliers, cuz I am guessing that you scented it too right? Plus, containers and such. I sure hope that you realize that you should not be jumping into this now just to get ready for xmas. I don't see where you would have enough time to properly test all of your products. There is alot of work that goes with candles, but also on the b/b side too. You have to list each and every ingredient that you add to your lotion according to FDA regulations. Were you aware of that? Plus whatever fragrance and coloring that you may add, on top of any additonal ingredients that you stick into it. Your container must also have all of your contact information for whomever is responsible to manufacturing it. That would be you, even if you use a base. So your name, address and phone number must be there. If your buisness is listed in the phone book, you can omit the address. Also according to the FDA, you must also list that "The safety of this product has not been determined" unless you are going to to lab testing on each product that you make.

I know this may come off as harsh, but I am just trying to make sure that you see, that either way you go, there is alot more involved than just the product. To properly follow all laws and regulations is a real PITA, but something that we must do. Have you checked into insurance? Are you going to be carrying that to cover yourself? If you have thought about all of this, and realize that it will take more than the $500, and you have the extra to spare, and the time to test, and make sure you follow up on all ingredients, and to make sure that you are following all label requirements, then I will wish ya good luck :smiley2:

Which version is it that says that we can legally use just Apricot Kernel Oil, instead of the Prunus Armeniaca (Apricot) Kernel Oil? I know that Lab Rat had said that it is one of them. Unless I understood this wrong......

So does that mean that the fragrance lasts as long with a wickless as it does with burning the same size candle from start to finish??? I guess I don't understand all the hype

I think safety is my biggest concern. I am glad that some of you have not had any issues, but it is still very scary. Do you guys have insurance? I was just down pouring a bunch of candles for the mall set up that I am going to do this year. I poured and poured, and since my basement is cool, I have had a few that have sink holes in the top Anyway, normally, I just heat gun it and it is good to go. However, I went to heat gun this one candle, and as the hole was filling, the whole top rim cracked off on me I look at the candle, and here is a huge crack down the side, with a hairline running u to the rim. Now, I inspect all my jars as I pull them out of the box, and yes, I have found a few that are cracked or chipped. But none of these had any "noticeable" issues. If this would of went out to a customer -- OH MY! Or if it was placed onto a warmer, then it really would of been a mess!

LOL, no you can't just list preservative It would make it so much easier though. Common names would be like using shea butter versus the INCI name. According to Lab Rat, it depends on which version you use to determine which is suitable for your labels. It saves from having to have all of these strange looking ingredients though. But for baking soda you would still need to put sodium biocarbonate. It doesn't help with preservatives and such. Someone correct me if I am wrong..........

We're suppose to make money?

And wait until you find somthing else that you just have to make. And then that takes testing, and oh wait!!! I just gotta sell one of those too, and before you know it, the list is longer, and longer and longer! And those dollar signs fly right out the window But hey, you may still have great products, just alot of them LOL

LOL. You go girl. Posts are kind of fun. Always interesting to see the numbers. Oh. And I voted no - for safety reasons.

Aw shucks See what happens when I get a few free minutes LOL! I don't think they are safe either, but I had already posted that in another thread :rolleyes2 I thought this would be helpful to some to see what other chandlers did or thought, especially for those that are just beginning. I honestly don't think refilling a container to make a sale is worth the liability issues. Quite a few in my area do refills, and it doesn't seem to really affect my buisness, although I am always going thru and explaining why to them. Some see that I am a "safety girl" and realize how important that is, while I have had 1 or 2 refuse to buy from me, I figured they were the ones that would cost me the most on a lawsuit

I understand the need for them in areas where you can't have a flame. I just don't see what those that will burn a candle would rather have one of these

I am on a roll tonite In another post, someone was asking about refills. I personally won't do them, but that is my choice, and I will leave it at that :tiptoe: Just curious as to how many do refills, acutally I am just being nosey tonite:grin2:

Wondering how many peeps do wickless candles. I personally think they are a waste of time. I know that I make a good quality candle, but my mother has burned mine on a burner, and after awhile, the fragrance is not there, but she still has a ton of wax left. I am thinking that it has to do with the fact that you are releasing all of the scent each time that you turn that baby on. Basically like a tart that runs out of fragrance, and it just leaves you with a blob left over.

I have a lot of my customers asking me about these. I don't think they are safe, as shown in another post. Testing is always important, I just think that with these, they are a hazard waiting to happen, cuz none of us know what a customer is going to do. So I just wanted to see how many of us sell wickless candles for these things.

I agree with Fire on this one.....TOTALLY!! IMO, if anyone does refills, they should have darn good insurance, cuz it can be a major liability! I have had customers refuse to purchase, cuz I won't refill, and that is fine with me.

All cracks are not noticeable, what are you going to do if it has a hairline crack in it that you can't see? Glass can develop cracks at any given moment due to the heat and the cold that happens naturally during the burning and the non-burning stages.

I have had many customers tell me that they use their canning jars for years, so if they can do that, then why don't I do the refills? I don't use canning jars for my candles, however I explain it to them this way. If you take a 16 oz canning jar and can some green beans, you are generally under pressure for about 20 minutes. Yes, these jars get very hot when canning, so we will average this out to 1 hour, since I don't know the exact temp while it is under pressure. I am giving plenty of room for error here. Now, depending on the wax used for a candle, melt point ranges from 100-140. So when you light it, the temp gets up there, ESPECIALLY the further down the jar you get. If that baby isn't wicked properly, it can get even hotter. Ok, I am getting off track here, lol! So I take this 16 oz jar, and pour a candle into it. It takes (bear with me, cuz I don't make these but I will use a rough time frame) 100 hours to burn it completely down to the 1/2 inch level. Then this customer wants to come back for a refill. Ok, I see that you reuse your canning jars but do you actually use them 100 times each??? There is NO WAY, that jar will get stress or cracks before you can use them for more than a few years. Now remember, I gave you an hour for canning, and compared to a 100 hour burn time with a candle, that makes a huge difference.

MOST of my customers say that they can only use their jars a few years without incident (we all know what a mess a broken jar in a canner is like), but when I explain it to them this way, they see my point.

I just think that we have enough liability to worry about when we make our own candles. We need to properly test and wick them in order to get the best burn. How do we guarantee a good burn if we refill a container that we have never wicked before? I know that you get a feel for diameter with wick sizes, but can anyone actually gurantee the same time of burn that they would with a container that is tested? We depend on the customers to burn the candles per the warning label, we all know that most don't do this. That is a chance that they take, however, when we add to it by refilling, I think it is an accident waiting to happen. Unknown usage of a container, plus the customers that don't burn properly = A HUGE LAWSUIT in my opinion.

Sorry this is such a book, but I am running into alot of this in my area. Peeps think they are cornering the market this way, but I am really noticing that most people respect you and your products more when you take the time to explain to them the hazards that can and will develop when doing refills. They see that you are doing everything that you can to sell them a safe product, and for me, it has helped boost my sales. Just my nickel

Wow Slow Burn you have got it together. I need you as a partner to do the business part and I will just make the products . I hate the business part. I wish my mom didn't have to work and she would do that part for me. Maybe someday.

I will think about this and make a deicision soon. I can't leave her hanging.

Thanks so much!!!!

Actually, I am pretty flighty, lol! I know what needs to be done, or what could be done, but I like to procassinate (sp). I run into the same problem with the buisness part and the product part

Good luck in whatever you decide to do! Taking that first step is always the biggest, but I think that as long as YOU belive in your products, and you let that show, then the rest will follow.......

How about if you give her a brochure, or catalog with order forms. Then a few samples. Have her go out and place the orders, then turn them into you. Depending on how long it takes you to make the items (or if you have them on hand) you could do this once a week. Say every Friday her forms must be turned in, and then the following Friday, she can come to you (I wouldn't deliver for something like this) to drop off new orders and pick up the finished product from last week. Or she can call you during the week for Friday's orders, just make sure she understands that if she calls on Thursday, that the product won't be availble until the following Friday. You could pick any day of the week.

Have her keep her own order forms cuz she will need them for tax purposes. Have her give you the orders in a group form, x amount of this and x amount of that. If she has all checks made payable to her (it covers your butt, and it can be done once she gets a tax id and has a dba). She will then pay you when she picks up the order. If she has the money from the individuals as the orders are placed (I never have had a problem with this) then she would just keep all of that to give to you, except of course the 20%. So if she sold 100.00, then she would give you the 80.00 at the time the order was placed, and she would pocket the 20.00. If she is real ambitious, have her purchase a few smaller items from you, that she can carry around with her. It would be a small investment on her part, but she would have some items to sell right there if the customer wanted them.

If this works well and she is motivated, then down the road, you could give her *raises* so to speak. Since you won't be doing the wholesale with her just yet, figure out where you want the breaks to be. For example, once she has 1000.00 in sales, you will take her up to 20%, if you started her out at 15%. If she does really good, you could eventually do the wholesale with her. Hope this made sense!

A craft show is where you sell to the public.

A trade show is where you sell to store owners so to speak. Or for the purchasing agent for a store. These deal mostly with wholesale orders. I *think* some trade shows may sell to the public, but most that I have checked into only sell to buisnesses. It would be the place that a buisness would go to for products to stock their store with. Some trade shows allow you to sell product that day, and others only allow you to take orders. You may not get any orders at all the days of the show, however, a month or a year down the road, you may be contacted by someone that saw you there, that is interested in your product.

These type of things sound real scary to me, but I am thinking about trying one out in the spring. The organizer that I spoke with, said that they generally draw in around 5000 people. So that means that it that many buisnesses that are looking for new products to carry in their stores. As I said before though, it can cost from a thousand to a few thousand to set up yourself. Unless you would find a vendor that is set up all year around, and they would be willing to be a "sales rep" for your products.

From my understanding, the best way to explain it would be that a craft show is for the public to purchase, and a trade show is for the buisnesses to purchase. HTH, and that I explained it right, lol!

Wanted to add: If she gets her tax id, then you would need to report everything that she bought from you at the end of the year. That is income for her. You would not be her employer this way, you just report that you sent it to so and so. After she purchases your product thru a wholesale type arrangement, you are then finished with her so to speak. Your job is done. It is a much easier way to work this.

I also forgot to ask ya if you had insurance? If not, I would check into that before I moved ahead to fast:tiptoe:

I am not an attorney, nor did I contact one before I did this. However, it did work for me, and my accountant, lol! I am going to give you a few options, and it would depend on what avenue that you would want to follow.

First off, if she is selling, she must have her own tax id. This would make her responsible for collecting the sales tax and turning it in. One less headache for you. If she does not have one, then you in turn are having to claim that income as sales, and collect the tax from her. A major headache (don't ask how I know) And since she doesn't have a tax id, then it gets confusing on if she is an employee or not, and you run into a bigger headache.

If she wants to sell all the time, then the general rule of thumb from my understanding for a sales rep is 10-15%. But they are generally trying to get you wholesale accounts, so this would be of the wholesale price. If this is what you wanted to do, I would recommed checking out some trade shows in your area, cuz they have peeps there that would be willing to do this. Or you could just set up at a trade show yourself, and see how it goes. It is very pricey though. I am going to try to set up for one in the spring, and I sure wish they were cheaper than what they are.

I had a sales consultant for home shows. I gave her the products at wholesale price, and then she resold them. Now, this is kinda sticky too. Cuz technically, I can't dictate prices but I did give her suggested prices. She bought the order forms from me, as well as the catalogs, and brochures. She also purchased all her free gifts for me (I only give out freebies of my products as prizes).

I did start her off a tad higher than wholesale because I wanted her to be able to work her way up. However, this made her think that she would be able to get more consultants "under" her. That then creates a pyramid, and honestly, I am not sure exactly how some of these places do it. That would be something that you would need to definately contact an attorney about.

If she wants to earn the 20% in candles, why not offer her a home show? You take the product, and she plays hostess, and then she gets the free product, depending on her sales? If she really wants to sell for you, then tell her she must get a tax id. Also find out how she wants to sell. Home shows, buisnesses, or craft shops. Make her buy a minimum up front, and then see how serious she is.

I have decided to do mine at wholesale prices, however, they must purchase a "kit" from me. The kit would be for 300.00 or so, and that would have plenty for them to offer at home parties for cash and carry. They would have to place orders with me for the rest.

I would talk to this lady to find out what she really wants. If she wants to make some money, then she would need to invest some money. Nothing is for free, and she should know that. I am finding it difficult for her to want to make the 50.00 a month when you offered her free candles. What made her think that she could make money? I am sorry for the book, I am not sure if I helped or confused ya more, lol! I will help any way that I can, but not sure if it is much value,

This would run for 6 weeks. yes, I would have to be there or have someone there at all the time the mall is open. Hubby, mom, neighbor, sister, and niece are all willing to work, as well as me. I also have a 16 year old son that wants to earn some extra cash. I am going to be paying a small amount under the table, and with figuring booth costs for a 10x10 with my own shelving, and paying someone else to work 12 hours a day (if we didn't go at all) I would have to sell 13 of my 9 oz candles in order to break even. That would cover my booth fee, and my employee. Not the candle, but I think it would be ok, cuz 13 a day of the small ones should not be hard to get.

The lady that runs it, agreed to make me the only candlemaker there...PERIOD (unless of course, it is a store, lol)

Also, I am allowed to close early (on xmas eve) cuz I don't want people to expect a % off like most stores offer after xmas

And if for some reason, someone doesn't show up, then I would not have to open, and she would not penalize me. However, I would lose a days worth of sales. The peeps willing (volunteering) to do this, are all dependable, and close to me, and plus, faithful customers So they know enough about my products, plus they all just want some extra christmas cash!!

Main cost I am going to be out, on top of invetory, will be cash register, cuz I think that would be a necessity. Insurance is covered, so I am good there. I would need to get some more shopping bags, but other than that, I think we have most things taken care of.

Just kinda nervous, cuz it is a large step. So if anyone can share some tips, I would really appreciate it. Thanx to all of you that helped so far, I need all the help that I can get. You all are helping me to make sure that I am thinking of all of my options.

BTW, I would also have to sign a contract, and all things (like being able to close if necessary) and also no other chandlers/ b/b makers being permitted, as long as I am there will all be in the contract. If not.....I won't sign it

Does anyone do the malls during the busy season? I am seriously considering doing this. Trying to finalize some things before we go all out for it! Alot to consider.... Plus, I would have to build more shelving What I have now is only 1 unit, and I would still need that for my home parties. So my creativity is running to try to come up with more for less, but enough for plenty of product, and to fit the 10x10 area!

Seems to be pricey, but from talking to a few of the vendors over the weekend, the sales sound awesome! I guess I am mainly nervous, cuz this is all my hubby's doings! Normally he says no, no, no, and everything turns out great! Now, he is saying yes, yes, yes, and I am ready to run for it, lol!

Just wanted to see if anyone else had any experience in doing this, and if so, any pointers for a first timer?