bktolbert

21 hours ago, Sheree00 said:

Thanks. Do use 8oz or 9oz? Where do you purchase from? I’m thinking about switching from my jelly jars. I don’t want to make the switch to soon. I know I have to test, test, test lol. 

Tbh, I use 16oz straight-sided jars from Fillmore:

https://www.fillmorecontainer.com/a16-11c-case12ct-12-oz.html

I've used the 8oz (too small) and 9oz straight-sided jar early on. I believe they have the same mouth opening, so the wick wouldn't change. My most helpful hint when I was testing out wicks in the beginning was to make a wickless candle. Take a toothpick or a skewer and make a hole for a wick. Put in the wick and let it burn. Pull it out if it didn't reach full melt pool within 3 hours, let the wax harden, and repeat with a bigger wick. You can apply the same logic to go down wicks too.

You have the right mindset: test.

But asking for advice or other people's experience doesn't hurt. I do think slight black soot is inevitable no mater what, at least near the end. I love CD wicks. People say they burn too hot, but I've found them to be superior to LXs and HTPs. (I can't speak for ECOs.)

If CD 8 doesn't work, re-test with 12. From my testing, CD 10 will burn hotter and a bigger melt pool than 12. I don't know why...

All said, I do use straight sided jars, but I doubt it'll make a major difference.

On 5/11/2019 at 2:58 PM, Sarah S said:

That's great you've had successful batches! 😁 So satisfying, right?

I just turn on the light in my oven while I'm making my soap, and stick my loafs in after I pour them. I used to set it to 175 and turn it off right before I put them in, but for most of my soaps it was was overkill. But I soap pretty warm, around 100 degrees because I use a lot of solid fats, and I generally use full water too. Just having the light on keeps everything nice and warm without being too hot.

I'll pull my molds out after a few hours, and let them sit wrapped in a towel on the counter for another day or so.

HTH!

Tbh, I think I need to stick with full water too. At least until I get some more practice.

Do you spray the tops with alcohol, which I think I've read somewhere to prevent... something (soda ash?)

On 5/12/2019 at 10:02 AM, NightLight said:

You don’t need a lot of heat with that soap mold. I have same one. Using the light in oven should be fine. Another trick is I use a polypropylene cutting board for under those silicone molds then place on sheet pan inside oven. The polypropylene board retain heat so as soap heats up, the board does to and encourages gel.

The soap bars in that mold are not thick so you should not have issue getting gel.

 

When you soap the loaf molds more heat is handy as the soap is larger and thicker in those molds.

 

in silicon make sure you use some sodium lactate, it makes the bars harder and easier to remove from molds.

That's a great tip! I'll be looking for those boards.

Also, thank you for the recipe!

Hi all,

Thanks to your helpful advice, I've successfully made soap I'm proud of! I've ditched the hot process method for cold process oven process (CPOP for short, I believe.) However, I'm still somewhat confused about the proper way to do things. I've seen people pre-heat their oven to 175F, turn it off, then leave the soap in overnight or until the oven is cooled. I've seen others keep the soap at 175 until they visibly see the soap transition through the gel stage. I know it's probably preference, but which way do you do it and why?

Also, I've had some soaps volcano in the oven and others that haven't. I have been playing around with formulations, so I don't know if it's a specific ingredient causing this to happen or if it's because I allow the lye solution to cool completely for some and not others. Wondering what may be the culprit...

Thanks again for all the help so far (esp. Sponiebr).

55 minutes ago, Sarah S said:

I'm not an HP expert, but recipe #2 looks good to me! Do you happen to have soybean oil? It's Vegetable Oil at the grocery store. I like that oil so much more than safflower in soap. Sorry, I know I'm being nit-picky with your recipe!!😅😅

A couple tablespoons of yogurt will help with the fluidity too. Add after the cook.

You're doing great! Experimentation is how we learn!

Don't have soy oil (have lots of wax lol), but I'll be on the lookout! I have rice bran oil though, hmm...

Yogurt is also a good idea, and I could see how that would help.

4th time is the charm, I guess? This is the texture I was aiming for. I know it passed the "mashed potato" phase, but I'm uneasy about knowing if it went into the Vaseline phase... the soap wasn't too translucent when I molded it, but I was afraid it'd dry out if I left it much longer. Will get some phenolphthalein tests to put my mind at ease. (Soap did pass the zap test lol.)

16 minutes ago, Sarah S said:

 

Watching a video tutorial (or ten) helped me a lot. I definitely needed to see the stages.

Also, I agree with @TallTayl, all that mango can't be helping the issue. Is that a recipe of your own creation? The proportions seem odd to me. Also also, I personally would skip the rose hip oil. That stuff costs a pretty penny, and between the low percentage, the soaponification process, and the fact the it washes off, I don't see how it would have much benefit. Maybe if you added it at like 5% after the cook... Just my opinion though!

 

Where's @Sponiebr?? He's the Prince of HP! 😆

It is my own monstrosity. I'm trying to make it vegan without coconut or palm oil.

Third attempt attached. It was going SO well until the very end. I think I let it cook maybe 5 minutes too long. I used this new recipe. (I ran out of mango butter.)

70% olive oil

20% safflower oil

8.75% shea butter

1.25% sodium lactate

I will be trying this recipe before giving up for today

50% olive oil

33.75% safflower oil

15% shea butter

1.25% sodium lactate... I think I added .25% more b/c I read it might help with keeping things fluid

Fingers crossed

12 hours ago, TallTayl said:

Part of the texture issue, IMO is the high stearic content on the mango butter.  It’s just a hard, dry ingredient in soap. I keep those high stearic types low... like 5%. 

 

hot process is “done” when phenolphthalein tests with no pink. That indicates no free lye. To use pheno drops, take a pea sized amount of soap from the pot and smear on a paper towel. Add a drop of the pheno. If pink it’s still lye active. If clear it’s done. I find with hot process, though, even if it tests a little pink by the time it cools it’s a non issue since saponification continues after the cook, just faster than with cold process. 

 

Note about pheno: don’t touch it bare handed.  Toss the test soap with pheno right in the garbage immediately. You don’t want to contaminate your self or soap with it.  If I remember right it is sold with pool chemicals. IMO, you don’t really need it, but newbies sometimes like a tool available to help learn timing.

 

A couple of tricks that may help (assuming your saponification calculator is right, and measurements are right):

you can try adding a tablespoon of sugar dissolved in water at the beginning for a more fluid pour. 

You can try adding a milk, like goat, coconut or yogurt at the end of the cook.  The fats and proteins can sometimes help loosen the mixture a bit.

Thank you for the explanation. I'm currently trying a formula with a way lower mango butter concentration, and it's cooking a lot more reasonably.

I have pH strips but didn't think of phenolphthalein. Thanks again! Am also learning about "superfats," so that may also help!

2 hours ago, CandleRush said:

Ahhh, hot processed soap! 🌸

Made my fair share of this soap. Something that helped me was to find a recipe that was already successful, there are many on line I’m sure. Also, watching a tutorial, there are a few out there as well, because hot processed soap goes through several stages and it’s important know what they are. Once you learn the stages it’s all up hill most of the time! And of course run everything through soapcalc.

Yes, there are a lot of stages. The online tutorials make so much soap at one time, it's hard to compare what my 1 bar of soap looks like to their huge crock pots lol. Have been using soapcalc and Bramble Berry's to double-check. Intent on making this work... different beast than candles for sure.

This is my second attempt at making soap, and I've run into a similar issue. I'm trying to make hot process soap, and I doubt when the soap is "done" to the point it's dried out so much that I can't cleanly fit it in the mold. Wondering what I'm doing wrong/how I can improve? (How do you know when your soap is "done?")

Here's my recipe:

55% mango butter

32% olive oil

13.48% safflower oil

2.5% rosehip seed oil

1.25% sodium lactate

3 hours ago, aptommo said:

I'm surprised to see the short cure time on the 415 users. I have melts that I was sure didn't have any throw at all so I sat them aside and tried even after a week with nothing. I just pulled them after 3 mo and they have great throw so I'm not sure what the difference you're doing is. Maybe candle vs melt?? Are you adding any additives to enhance FO?

I'm not quite sure what would be moving around/settling inside a melt or candle to make it throw better after 3 mo. if it remains completely solid. But if it worked for you, keep at it! Just stinks that it's so long.

1 hour ago, bfroberts said:

ALL waxes will benefit from a cure. For the shortest, go with 100% paraffin.  Doesn't really matter so much which one.  As for the suggestion of adding FO at low temp.....I wouldn't recommend that.

Any reason behind your recommendation against adding FO at low temps? As long as the wax is liquid, it should blend just fine. Additionally, you are minimizing the burn off of volatile scents (albeit it might be negligible, but you're lowering the risk of evaporation). My wax doesn't start hardening until 90F. At 100-120F, it's completely liquid.

https://www.theflamingcandle.com/candle-wicks/cd-wicks/cd-wick-sample-pack/

I also really like CD wicks.

6 hours ago, TallTayl said:

How much needs to be accurately measured to that specific degree? Nonscientific Scales are most accurate to the midpoint of their full capacity generally.

 

the amounts I need to 0.01 are small, so I use little jeweler scales or pocket gram scales that go to a max of 500g or so. Have had quite a few through eBay and amazon along the way. 

 

I can't accurately measure 1% USA for a 7oz candle. But once I have 1% measured, I can just use a different scale. I will check out jeweler scales. Ty!

56 minutes ago, jfc said:

 

May I ask what wax you use?   3 day cure time sounds lovely!!

I use AAK 415. It is just plain soy wax:

https://www.fillmorecontainer.com/aaks-golden-wax-415-100-soy-formerly-golden-brands.html

I am also of the belief that adding fragrance to wax at high temps (150F+) burns off volatile scents, so I add my fo 100-120F. Other people may have luck with higher temps, but this is what works for me. You may want to try doing everything (adding fo, pouring, etc.) as cool as you comfortably can to see if that changes anything.

Best of luck!

Does anyone have recommendations for a scale that actually measures .01oz?

I currently have this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0113UZJE2/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

But it doesn't start weighing until .07oz, and even that is a 50/50 shot.

There are lots of people who believe in cure times, and lots of people who don't. Personally, I cure for 3 days, but I'm 99.9% certain there's no chemical reactions taking place after the candle completely hardens (~24 hours).

As others have recommended, try a wax with paraffin. It should be a sure way to get a throw.

1 hour ago, TallTayl said:

Thank you for sharing this. Those were similar to my observations.

 

Soybean wax is so unstable on its own that coconut oil only makes things worse.

 

I actually prefer paraffin in soy to Coconut as it is a lot more predictable as well.

 

Did you also find the coconut oil and soy wax makes it more prone to soot?

At this moment, I can't justify paraffin when there are more sustainable alternatives for the environment.

I've not seen a ton of soot in either all-soy or coconut-blended, but my candles without coconut oil have noticeably less carbon buildup.

53 minutes ago, NightLight said:

I have a coconut wax formula. I have no soot with my candles. The reason to use coconut oil with soy is it’s an all natural alternative paraffin. In all my versions using coconut oil it does help with burn with soy and you get a meltpool faster, which equals faster throw of scent.

Soybean Oil I would never use as it would be prone to rancidity, and soybean oil gone off is yucky.

You might get a faster throw with coconut oil because of its low melting point, but I don't think it throws better. I actually haven't tested the speed. I usually just test ~1, 2, and 3 hour. Interesting idea!

I just wanted to put it out there for new folks that a regular soy candle isn't inferior to a soy candle with coconut oil in terms of smell.

52 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

Shea and mango might make that insanely brittle.

 

Sunflower (unless high oleic) and grapeseed oil are high in linolenic acid. It could make it prone to Dos.

 

 There’s another thread today about clay causing soap to be possibly drying. 

 

 

What is your goal for this soap?

I understand. Maybe I can test between shea and kokum butter. I believe kokum is harder -- trying to avoid cocoa butter because of high comedogenicity and am unaware of any other butters.

https://lotioncrafter.com/products/sunflower-oil-high-oleic

Think I could forgo sunflower and grapeseed and just use hemp? 

I want a good ol' basic white bar soap (eventually to sell in a vegan line of CBD products). I'm purposefully avoiding coconut oil because it's not agreeable with my skin.

23 minutes ago, NightLight said:

That’s a lot of hard oils and could make it hard for you to work with it in hot process. You’re using CBD in wash off product. Bye bye CBD down the drain. 

I would add sodium lactate, it will make your soap batter more fluid and easier to work with.

And also grape seed oil will go bad fast.

Sunflower oil has to be as TT said has to be high pelican or it will go bad quickly too.

Ah. I don't know why I forgot about CBD being washed off  

I ordered sodium lactate but thought I might make a batch without to see if it's a necessary item. What % would you recommend to use?

I'm planning on making my first hot process soap, and I'm wondering if there's any majorly wrong with this formula?

25% Mango butter

30% Shea butter

20% Moringa oil

10% Sunflower oil

5% Grapeseed oil

5% CBD (50mg in hemp oil)

2.5% Meadowfoam seed oil

2.5% Castor oil

2% (of total) Tea tree extract - antibacterial, anti-fungal

.98% (of total) White kaolin clay - colorant

.02% (of total) Rosemary leaf extract - antioxidant/preservative

Based on the internet, I thought coconut oil would improve the throw of my soy candles. However, after testing and testing (and testing), my conclusions are 

1. any soy candle with more than 20% coconut oil is simply too mushy and takes forever to "dry"
2. coconut oil does not noticeably improve the throw

In fact, I prefer the scents of my all-soy candles to candles with coconut oil. Nonetheless, I will continue to use a small percentage of coconut oil <5% in my candles because it does improve the appearance of tops (makes the hard glaze look of soy smoother/creamier).

So, if you're new to candle making like me and are thinking coconut oil is a miracle cure to poor scent throw... don't let your high expectations disappoint you. Some fragrances just aren't meant for soy.

http://calcandlesupply.com/8-oz-matte-finished-tin-containers-w-lids/

+1 Salty Sea Air (esp if you like the beach/sea scent)

Wasn't so much of a fan of maple and brown sugar

11 hours ago, jaybee said:

Just my experience but I've found an Lx 24 to be comparable to a cdn 14, which falls between a 12 and a 14.....this was in 

cbl 130. I would try the 20 through the 24...hth

Thank you!! I just got a LX sample pack form CS and will try 20-24.

Wondering if anyone knows/has tested what the equivalent of CD-12 (to CD-14) is? I mostly use CD-12 for my 3.25 inch containers, and it works well in most fos (close edge-to-edge melt pool after 3 hours). However, there are a few that tunnel. CD-14 resolves the tunneling issue, but I'm afraid it burns too hot (the container temps at >140F), and so I'm not comfortable using them.

I would like to test the LX series but was looking for a ballpark estimate as a starting point.

Thanks!

Realistically, if you're making candles for others, you only have to wick for them not for perfection. I figure if you have a candle that (1) smells nice and (2) melts most of the wax, you have a candle good enough for most folks. (And obviously, safety is number 1. Don't use a wick that will break the container or burn someone's hand.)

I'm actually matching my fo to fit my 3 wicks and container not the other way around. It means sacrificing some fos, yes. But I rather that than be driven mad trying to make a particular scent work.

2 hours ago, Laura C said:

 

You've probably already considered this but just wanted to mention it. Be careful how much universal soy additive you use because it can do two things if you go over board, decrease scent throw and make the wax too hard and too difficult to wick properly. Been there, done that. You have to find the right mix and it certainly will increase scent throw in a soy or coconut wax blend.

Definitely! I've been experimenting with the USA <1%. I don't know what's in it, but at such a low percentage it can really change a lot. I also really hate that I don't know what's in it... and it seems there's only 1 supplier https://thecandlemakersstore.com/universal-soy-wax-additive.html.

2 hours ago, Laura C said:

 

I'm curious. I don't know what wax or type of FOs you use but since you add your FO at such a low temp, what kind of cold and hot scent throw do you experience? Since you do this process I image your C&H scent throw must be really good. Do you make candles only or also wax melts? I don't think I have ever added my FO at that low of a temp.

I use 415 mixed with some coconut oil. I add my fo (CS, NG, Fillmore, etc.) at 120F. If I'm making one or two candles, I can get away with going lower. Any more than that and there's some leftover wax that solidifies before I'm done pouring. I've never struggled with a cold throw, but I think it's just the nature of the wax that some fos don't throw well hot.

I believe everyone's candle making process is unique, but theoretically - I'm no scientist - I don't see the reasoning behind adding fo to extremely hot wax despite manufacturer's recommendation. It is most likely evaporating volatile scents. (It may be negligible, but it is happening.) I also don't believe in "binding"... blending should be the aim and can occur as long as the wax is liquid. I can also see the disadvantage and have struggled with adding fo to cold(er) wax - it solidifies in the pot before pouring. So, there's bound to be a happy medium in between. I recommend just experimenting if you can! It may make all the difference in the world or none at all. You've only got a few ounces of wax, some fo, and a wick to lose

Funny you brought up melts. These are the second batch I've made. Same wax, same process, and they turned out fine... I think.