ladydragon

Cybersix It might be worth seeing if Elizabeth at Gracefruit can help... I know she stocks the Cyclomethicone and it can be shipped by air from the UK... Alternatively she also has a few distributors of her fragrance oils elsewhere within the EU and might be able to recommend a more local supplier if shipping from the UK is too hefty an option... www.gracefruit.com Ann-Marie x

I'm also a lover of Sweet Cinnamon Pumpkin - I normally get it from Save on Scents and find it fine in Eco Soy or Container Paraffin... Just emailed Bert now to see if she'll ship to the UK... Fingers crossed as I really want to try the PCS and a few others...:smiley2: Ann-Marie x

Eugenia... Hmmm... If that's the case then it'll be over to OO for me rather than OP... I had a huge batch from a supplier who told me it was obtained with minimal fiddle factor and was definitely solvent free... :-(

Scent Cellar - so many recipes I've tripped over seem to use PKO that I can only presume it's rather useful... A bit of a shame it's not exactly abundant over here! TOMH - thank you... Have a guess what I'll be doing tomorrow evening?! ;-) The only downside I can think of with that is the cost of the CB versus the Palm - rough figures here but the CB is a tad over £4 or $8 more per kilo (2.2lb) than the palm... But if it's worth it then it's worth it - simple as... OTOH, has anyone found customers who don't approve of cocoa butter in their soaps? We have to use unrefined CB... I know I'm probably sounding horribly picky - but once I submit the formula I'm going to be stuck with it for a loooooooong time...lol I do envy your freedom to be able to play around so much more with different base recipes and still be able to bring them to market so long as they are chemically safe and you are professionally happy with them... As I understand it Donnamac - the Olive Pomace is less refined than the usual Olive Oil... I could be completely wrong here though... The extra bonus is that Olive Pomace here is substantially cheaper than refined Olive Oil... ;-)

Our bath melts are just cocoa butter, salts, botanicals and fragrance... Simple and yes, greasy in the water... ;-) For a foaming, moisturising bath treat we use a sort of bath bomb recipe with SLSA and instead of adding water we emulsify something like Apricot Kernel Oil with Polysorbate 20 to make it dispersible and use that as the binding agent... A bit of fizz and foam with the benefits of the oil but without the slick on the surface of the bath water... I never worked out how to remove the slick when using cocoa butter as the melt - be interested to see if there are any suggestions...

Ugh... Don't envy you if you got such a nasty smell instead of a nice pleasant scent... Could the fragrance oil have been off by any chance? Or a bit of residue from something else left in the water bottle? We don't use witch hazel or corn starch (I'm presuming it's similar to our cornflour)... 3 parts Sodium Bicarb to 1 part Citric Acid... Drip in the FO and any colour randomly about in the bowl with pipettes mixing quickly... Then slowly spritz the pre boiled and cooled water mixing like crazy until it's all the right consistency... If we add cocoa butter we melt it first and use that as the binding agent so not so much water is needed - which is very little anyway... I don't know if it's possible for the bicarb or the citric to be 'off' and cause this sort of problem - not one I've come across... Hope you can sort it out though...

Sorry if I appear dim TOMH but do you mean to build cocoa butter into the base recipe as a permanent fixture so to speak to harden up the overall recipe? Scent Cellar & Soapers Workshop - thanks for your input also... I've not quite gotten my head around the Iodine and INS figures SC... Any reason why you find the higher Iiodine number preferable and any hints on how to achieve that or particular oils which might be helpful? Any thoughts on fors or againsts regarding RBO versus OO? I suppose I could use straight OO - research on RBO led me to believe they had similar properties but that the RBO might actually be ahead slightly in terms of being nice and gentle to the skin so to speak... It's still fairly new over here - I've not really seen it on any labels as such - but I got it in originally for our baby butter as it's a nut / kernel free oil... There's very little difference in price between the two... Ann-Marie x

Thanks for the reply... I have worked with adding shea, cocoa butter etc as the 6% superfatting - which I'd use for ingredient variables or extra options... So infact - the figures I put above are really all minus 1.5% each with the 'extras' making it up to 100% with a 6% superfat... Don't know if I've explained that very well ?!?!? If I sub out anything to add it as part of the base then every single soap there after has to have it in there - the base formulation and methodology all have to be verified and assessed... An alternative though would be to maybe use your suggestion and drop the RBO by the full five or six percent intended superfat and use that left over bit as the ingredient variable rather than averaging it across all the base ingredients... Thinking aloud now - sorry...lol Mmmmm... Definitely worth a pop though... So the RBO would drop to 20% and there'd be a spare 5% which could be Calendula, Jojoba, Shea, Cocoa etc... Ann-Marie x

Hi guys... I've been chasing that elusive 'perfect' base recipe for a while now and the one that's proven the most reliable for me in CP and HP so far is as follows: 30% Coconut; 20% Palm; 25% Olive Pomace and 25% Rice Bran Oil Numbers through soap calc: Hardness = 44 Cleansing = 21 Condition = 52 Bubbly = 21 Creamy = 22 Iodine = 62 INS = 151 It's not the hardest bar on the planet - but it does seem to survive in use and has a nice creamy, moisturising lather that the kids can still blow bubbles with...lol The main reason I'm in a pickle over the base recipe is we require mandatory independent toxicology assessment of our product before we can legally sell it in the UK - and it costs around the equivalent of $300 *BEFORE* including the costs of variable ingredients which work out about $5 - $10 each... Varying the base recipe would require the investment again for a new formulation... :-( So although I'll be able to add extras such as EO, FO, herbs and colourants to the assessment - the base will essentially need to be the same for each and every soap made... Kinda important that I get it as good as possible for ease of use, reliability and diversity in accepting a variety of other ingredients to superfat or add texture, fragrance etc... So any comments (positive or critical), suggested alterations etc of the above recipe would be gratefully received... Now I understand things are a tad different in the US and you're able to use different recipes with the base ingredients changing to suit if you want - but, if you have a particular old favourite that you tend to return to regularly I'd love to hear what it might be and why you stick with it... Oh, before I forget - most oils are available here but I can't use PKO or Babassu... They're not... Thanks for taking a peek... Ann-Marie x

Current seasonal favourites for bathroom candles/melts are: Cucumber Melon, Mango & Papaya, Black Raspberry & Vanilla and Melonade Year round favourites for bathroom candles/melts are: Downey, Clean Cotton (I sooooo hate that one now! lol), Fresh Cut Roses, Lavender, Vanilla, Strawberry and J&J Bedtime Bath My own personal fave at the moment - Cucumber Melon closely followed by Mango & Papaya... ;-)

I think a lemon scent would work - it seems to be a component in many kitchen soaps I've seen on my mooching around... Tried it myself though and absolutely hated the mix of lemon and coffee...lol I just use the coffee grounds as the exfoliant and a small amount of peppermint EO for the 'other' fragrance... It survives in M&P and CP well and for myself personally, just seems to sit better with the coffee scent from the grounds providing you only add a small quantity... Coffee with coffee didn't do it for me - or maybe it's just a different natural preference in the UK (still a nation of tea lovers after all! lol)... Minty scents always seem to impart a sense of 'clean and fresh' too... Helpful with a kitchen soap I think... ;-) Ann-Marie x

Mmm... Actually, for me, the second recipe does look a tad more appealing - very similar figures all over so I can see your point there - but a slight drop in bubbles and a slight increase in creaminess... As my preference is for a creamy finish than high bubbles it would probably suit me better... ;-) Babassu is definitely not readily available over here - I don't think I've ever seen it to be honest listed with any of my regular suppliers... So both the PK and Babassu are off my shopping list so to speak... ;-) By the look of it a bit of fiddling maxing coconut to 30% then bumping up the palm to compensate for any PK left over might be the best, and possibly the only option if I want to play around with the recipies that do include PK... Or as also suggested, up the coconut to more than 30% and superfat a bit more... Never taken that step - always thought it one of those 'golden rules' that coconut should not be more than 25 - 30% max... Part of the problem at my end is chasing that elusive 'perfect' base recipe... Because of the cost involved in getting our soap safety assessed prior to selling it here; the base recipe has got to be completely consistent... The variables for superfatting or additives get added on as extra ingredients - but the actual base can't alter or it would need a whole new assessment... Methinks I might be better off posting my current fave to see if I can obtain constructive feedback from more experienced quarters... Thanks for all your input Ann-Marie x

They look amazingly stunning! How do you achieve the textured tops if you don't mind me asking? Ann-Marie x

Thanks for that... I did wonder if they were very similar... Having said that - I've found a number of recipes which already have coconut and palm as well as the palm kernel... Just subbing with coconut only might take that ingredient over the 30% mark - which I understand is undesirable... I've tried subbing with cocoa butter and shea butter (both easily accessible for me) in the calculators but it seems to make a huge difference... Would palm be similar to palm kernel? Not having ever gotten my sticky little mitts on it I've no idea of what it looks/feels like... Thanks Ann-Marie x

Definitely a good point... I've always got freezing cold skin - so it definitely wouldn't melt onto me just via a stick - I'd need to really cup it in my hands and hold it a bit to have enough on my hands to slather it around... OTOH - the idea of someone being able to take a stick into work even and just give a quick swipe over a dry area and a quick rub in does sound potentially good too... Maybe I'm just muddling up what in essence could be marketed as two different products... In a tube for portability and use on the run with ease of use on small, selected dry areas with minimal mess - a solid body lotion/balm (like a lip balm for the body! lol)... Versus in a tin for a more luxurious melt in the hand and whole body moisturising experience - a solid massage bar... Hmmm... Decisions, decisions... ;-) Ann-Marie x

Beat me to it!! ;-) Just about to add a line of these myself and have been dithering over the tubes versus bar decision... Ann-Marie

Hi guys... I was wondering if anyone had views on a sub for Palm Kernel oil? I've seen many recipes I'd like to try but my supplier doesn't carry PKO... I'd be very grateful for any suggestions and views on an alternative with similar characteristics so it doesn't totally alter a recipe which contains PKO... Many thanks!

I had some miserably failed and grotty smelling batches using milks in liquid format - just got too hot in the moulds I think and maybe I wasn't monitoring it and removing the insulation quickly enough... I mix milk powder (thank you to my supplier for suggesting it! lol) now with the oil for superfatting and add at trace... Same with honey powder rather than liquid honey... No more over cooked milk in the soap but it's still going in there with all the benefits... ;-)

Hiya... I don't know if they'd be called something different in the US... We have them available in stainless steel and they're whopping large pans with a bucket type handle that you boil the fruit and water/sugar in when making jam or chutney... We use grams over here anyway which I think is possibly more accurate than lb and oz weight wise - not sure... I do have a small, inexpensive jewellers scale that I use if needed for the 'tenth of a gram' measurement... So I figure that any residue left in the dish then is going to be too small to really count and would only be the bit that someone else would advise could be rounded up or down according to the recipe... If that makes sense?! Tis ever so late here so I could be waffling...lol

I know this might be slightly varying the original question but it did raise a couple of questions for me... I'm presuming most of the posters so far on this thread are in the US? Can you, in the US, just decide at any time to make and sell soap or other bath and body products? Reason I'm wondering is because in the UK we're not allowed to sell anything that might be classed as a cosmetic (which translates as wash off or leave on products that aren't medicinal in nature) without first having a legal safety assessment... It is possible to buy a small safety assessment which ties you to the limited ingredients and methodology determined by the company selling the assessment - but in the main, it means you have to approach a qualified toxicologist with your basic recipe, any extra variable ingredients and their quantities, methodology of manufacture, labelling examples, suppliers, MSDS data, INCI names etc and pay them a substantial amount of money to assess your product before you are legally allowed to sell it to the public... And you need a different assessment for each product - ie one assessment might cover you for your CP soap base recipe with variable ingredients - but you'd need a separate assessment for M&P soap, lotion bars etc etc... It's darn expensive to be able to make and sell products here - final cost per product would probably be around $250 minimum for the base recipe and maybe $10 EACH per variable ingredient including extras such as botanicals or fragrance/essential oils... and you do need to be pretty final in the recipe as actually tweaking it at a later date would probably require a whole new assessment... Selling a product with no safety assessment in place = no insurance and potential prosecution if caught... In effect our recipes and process are 'proven and verified' before we can ever sell the stuff... As for candles - well, that's the other end of the scale... Absolutely no legislation in place before you can make and sell candles to the unsuspecting public... My 10 year old and probably my dog could do it...lol Been making the candles for six years/selling for five and a half and the B&B products for two and selling for less than a year - have to say I found soaps etc a lot easier in comparison to the candles given the more defined recipe and manufacturing process to soaps etc... The wick testing nightmare never stops - even from batch to batch with the same supplier...lol But although the investment for testing is roughly the same - the investment costs to bring B&B products to market so to speak are hugely different... Sorry if it's diverted the original question somewhat - but I'm a tad curious how it works elsewhere... Ann-Marie x

Hiya... I'm not sure on the FO query as in the midst of my humungously long list of muddle ups - that's one bit I've normally remembered... ;-) In CP... I use one measuring jug or bowl and weigh each oil individually in it before chucking it all in the 'communal pot' to melt and mix... For bigger batches of CP I've used a stainless steel jam or preserve pan - they hold about 9 litres or so... Either a very, very low direct heat (I've got gas so it's fairly easy to control) or melt the hard stuff individually in the micro and then chuck them into the pot melted so it all just warms through and mixes and a quick whiz with the stick blender to be sure before adding the lye water... The lumpy bits - um, maybe trace plus a bit more so it had started to goo up a bit - or maybe the solid oils resetting a bit if not thoroughly mixed... I've only ever used a stick blender and poured when fairly custard like in CP... I was quite surprised with trying HP though how quickly after trace it started firming right up and getting fairly lumpy before gelling and going soft again... Thinking about the FO query though - in HP it gets added after all the gelling and saponification has pretty much finished - so I would have thought if it were added in later before it had gotten to the goo stage it would be ok... Sorry I haven't got any more definitive pearls of wisdom...

Crumbs... It's different - but makes sense I suppose - forcing the normal process that occurs with CP in the mould more quickly with the heat - but not having to mould it when it's hit that lumpy stage...lol Quite intriguing! ;-) Have you had it fluffing up in the mould though the same way it can do in the crock pot with HP as it's being heated? Bit nervous about the idea of a towel in the oven... Silicone bakeware would be a pretty good option for the mould I'd imagine - that's what I've used with the HP and it doesn't need lining... I wasn't sure if the temperature of the HP might be a bit too much for my wooden CP moulds... Thanks for that bit of info Katshe... Definitely going to look into it a bit more and probably try it out... ;-) Ann-Marie x

They look really lovely! Just a thought re the labelling... I use the (free) limited version of Design Pro 5 from the Avery Dennison website... You can use circular text to put your details on the outer edge and also do borders by drawing a circle and setting the line thickness and colour... Can input custom label details if you're not using standard avery sizes... Ann-Marie x

Thank you all for your input... By the time I'd trimmed up the slices they didn't actually look too bad - fairly smooth in fact once the raggedy outside bits were taken off... Hubby and eldest daughter have quite warm hands and the trimmed bits when broken up actually mush together to make soap balls very easily - quite smooth if your hands are warm - ideal samplers I hope... ;-) I did tongue test it after it was all demoulded - no burning but my goodness, it sure does taste horrible...lol Just waiting now to see how long they take to harden up a bit - the bars are still feeling a tad soft - they'd be easy to take a chunk out of them with a finger nail... One thing that's strange though - it's a recipe that's worked well in CP - but it seems to have a much MUCH creamier lather using HP... It still bubbles the same - well enough for the kids to blow large bubbles through their fists (you can tell it's school holidays and their bored! lol) but it's an awful lot creamier - really lovely... Is that a normal 'side effect' of HP? Thanks again for your help... Ann-Marie x

Thanks for your help... I gave it another go today and used the much higher water quantity on the M Sage calculator than that given by the soapmaker software... It went sweet as a nut - much faster than any of the tutorials I've read but it was pretty much by the book... ;-) The only muddle up I did make in the excitement of watching it like a hawk was not testing it on my tongue before moulding... It had definitely all gelled and gone through the apple sauce / mashed potato / thick mashed potato phase when I put the EO in and shoved it in the mould completely forgetting to tongue test first... So the next question - is there an alternate way of checking it's all ok? I can't say I'm really enthused with the idea of licking a bar of soap that's nicely fragranced with EO... ;-) Or given it's HP and it did everything it's supposed to do is it just ok to presume it'll have all saponified safely? I superfatted by 6%... I'd also be very grateful for any tips on how to get a smoother finish... It's demoulded now and although uncut it most definitely has a different look to my usual CP... Should it be moulded slightly earlier when it's softer or is there a secret way of getting the lumpy consistency to bind together more smoothly in the mould? Thank you all for sharing your experience...