delle928

2 minutes ago, delle928 said:

Ok, so I'll nix the idea of double-wicking and try the CD 16. I'll have to look at the most recent batch I poured and see if I used a 16 in any of those. I tried a couple different ones so I can see what works best.  Thank you so much for all of your advice! I truly appreciate it.

4 hours ago, Trappeur said:

Oh I'm glad I asked you to post a picture.  That's the widemouth mason.  On that jar in 464 I use 1 cd 16 no problem.  With all the problems we are going though with soy, you might want to test a cd 14 besides the 16.  Depends on the fragrance.  Using 2 cd 5's I think is going to be too much.  2 cd 4's might put themselves out.  But anything bigger is way too much in a cd series wick and you really don't need 2 wicks....(just my opinion)....but give them a try and let us know.

 

Trappeur

I just checked ... figures I didn't use any 16s. I used a CD 12, a CD 14 and an HTP 105. That's what I get for looking up the recommendations online instead of waiting for advice from you guys. Ugh. Well, I guess I can always melt them down and re-pour them with 16s. There is so much conflicting information online. You'd think you'd be able to trust the companies themselves or the suppliers to tell you pretty accurately which wicks to use with which wax/size/type of candle. I have yet to find one chart that gives me the same information I've gotten from anyone who actually makes candles. I initially ordered a bag of 100 ECO 14s based on what I read on a guide and they're just sitting in a drawer. I need to find a container that they'd work well in. Sigh ... 

4 hours ago, Trappeur said:

Oh I'm glad I asked you to post a picture.  That's the widemouth mason.  On that jar in 464 I use 1 cd 16 no problem.  With all the problems we are going though with soy, you might want to test a cd 14 besides the 16.  Depends on the fragrance.  Using 2 cd 5's I think is going to be too much.  2 cd 4's might put themselves out.  But anything bigger is way too much in a cd series wick and you really don't need 2 wicks....(just my opinion)....but give them a try and let us know.

 

Trappeur

Ok, so I'll nix the idea of double-wicking and try the CD 16. I'll have to look at the most recent batch I poured and see if I used a 16 in any of those. I tried a couple different ones so I can see what works best.  Thank you so much for all of your advice! I truly appreciate it.

1 hour ago, Trappeur said:

Hi Delle,

 

can you post a picture of your jar?  I want to make sure I'm thinking of the jar you are using for the wick suggestions I made....

 

Trappeur

1 hour ago, Trappeur said:

For me eco's in 464 created too much soot.  I use cd's.  In that size jar I would try 2 cd 5's.

For single wicking 1 cd 16 or cd 18 you could try.

 

Trappeur

Yeah, so far I'm not real thrilled with the ECOs, but I may not be using them correctly. Thank you so much for the wick suggestions. I'm pretty sure I have those sizes on hand. I'll try them in my next batch. 

On 3/19/2018 at 6:07 PM, hellkat said:

So far with the FO's the best HT's I've got were from the Sea Salt and Orchid, Drops of Rain and Black Sea from Candlescience. The other one is called Ocean and I picked that up at the soap shoppe near me. The other FO's I have are more muskier I guess would be the word? So those are still curing. 

 

As a newbie myself I'm still learning the whole wicking size thing, I think the poke the hole and dropping in different wicks is a great idea - being new I would have never thought of that.  For the pint size mason jars (the fat square looking ones) I double wicked with 2 eco 10's (per the wick guide) but the melt pool within an hour is at least a 1/2 inch deep and from what I understand that's too much too soon? It smelled good all the way down though. I'll try the 2 ECO 6 next time and see how that works. I also use the 4" 8oz squat looking jars and used 1 ECO 16 (again going by the wick guide) and just lit one after reading this post to see how that works. If it gets too deep to fast I'll try the eco 14 and go from there. Or maybe I should get away from the ECO's?

 

 

I'm going to try double wicking a pint jar on my next batch, I just have to figure out which wicks to use. I don't have a large selection to choose from at the moment, but I do have sample packs of CD and HTP wicks that I will try. As for the ECOs, the only experience I've had so far has been with 14s and I'm not really happy with them, BUT I may not be using them in the correct sized candles. It could be my fault. I don't know what I'm doing yet lol!

Thank you for the scent suggestions! I'm having so much trouble with HT even after a 2 week cure time, but since making this post I can say that I've noticed that if I wait 4 weeks, the HT is much better. As much as I like working with soy, I'm about to switch to paraffin because I HATE waiting lol!

On 3/19/2018 at 4:56 PM, runner14jc said:

Have you ever tried double wicking? 4" wide containers with 464 can be difficult to get a full burn with a single wick. Testing (2) ECO 6 wicks may be worth a try if you have some on hand. 

No, I haven't tried that, but I will now! I don't have any ECO 6s, but I do have comparable HTP and CD wicks. Have you used either of those and, if so, what sizes would you recommend? Thank you so much for this suggestion! I wouldn't have thought of doing that in a pint sized Mason jar. 

2 minutes ago, GoldieMN said:

AND they sell Premier wicks!   If you want  just a few, though, I can send you some in a few sizes.

GoldieMN

Aww, you're so sweet to offer! I'll go ahead and order some since you've had good luck with them.

3 minutes ago, GoldieMN said:

Forgot to mention, a number of us test our hot throw as well as how hot jars will get by pouring without a wick.  Then poke a hole in the wax and insert a wick to test.  It is not secured on the bottom, but at least you can burn at least 3/4 of the jar before the wick slumps to see how the wick performs.    If I notice the test jar getting too hot or no hot throw, I pull that wick out and try another.  Those jars you have no hot throw from now, you can melt that wax and use that wax to test your wicks you have coming.  No need to wait two weeks to cure.  I've had a number of booboos that I just melt in my oven on lowest temp my oven will go.  I didn't explain that very well so if you need further explanation, ask away.

GoldieMN

Oh wow ... yeah, that's a great idea! I wouldn't have thought to do that!! Thank you so much! I was excited to try different wicks, but was bummed about having to wait. Excellent solution!

5 hours ago, GoldieMN said:

First of all, welcome to soy hell.   Just kidding.  . .kind of. . .  I use 464, pint jars, and have had luck with Rustic Escentuals Spiced Pumpkin Latte, Amish Quilt, Apple & Pumpkin Strudel, Christmas Bliss, and others.  Fillmore container's Iced Lemon Biscotti, Nutmeg Ginger, Sweet Orange & Chili Pepper (is throwing strong right now first time testing).  I don't care for floral or perfume scents so I don't test those.  I've had good luck with Premier 770s in these jars as well as CD 10s or 12s.  My latest jars using these wicks are from Lot F, dated 5/04/17.  I will test new batch of wax as I receive it to see if I need to change my wicks again.  I follow the same procedures you do.

 

A number of others use 464 and will be adding suggestions to this thread, I'm sure.

GoldieMN

So I just looked up Fillmore and found out it's actually not all that far from me! (Well, closer than most of these other companies anyway lol!) Only about 3 1/2 hours away  Nice to see something fairly close! Thanks again for all of the info!

4 hours ago, GoldieMN said:

First of all, welcome to soy hell.   Just kidding.  . .kind of. . .  I use 464, pint jars, and have had luck with Rustic Escentuals Spiced Pumpkin Latte, Amish Quilt, Apple & Pumpkin Strudel, Christmas Bliss, and others.  Fillmore container's Iced Lemon Biscotti, Nutmeg Ginger, Sweet Orange & Chili Pepper (is throwing strong right now first time testing).  I don't care for floral or perfume scents so I don't test those.  I've had good luck with Premier 770s in these jars as well as CD 10s or 12s.  My latest jars using these wicks are from Lot F, dated 5/04/17.  I will test new batch of wax as I receive it to see if I need to change my wicks again.  I follow the same procedures you do.

 

A number of others use 464 and will be adding suggestions to this thread, I'm sure.

GoldieMN

Lol! At first, I thought I was doing so well but it was too good to be true. It came time to actually burn the candles and I realized there was virtually no HT. So disappointing after waiting 2 excruciatingly long weeks to test them 

Thank you so much for the fragrance suggestions! I'm not a fan of perfumey or floral scents, either. Everything you mentioned sounds delicious. I'll have to check out Fillmore. I hadn't heard of them.

I'll be able to try the CD wicks after tomorrow, as I have samples of CD and HTP wicks coming (along with a few sample FOs). I had considered Premier as well, but hadn't heard many reviews on them. Now that I know you have success with them, I'll order some.

I'm glad to hear I was at least following the correct procedure for everything else.  Thank you so much for all of the info!! I greatly appreciate it!

4 hours ago, TallTayl said:

before jumping ship on your current fragrances, have you tried different wick series?

 

often the wick makes the biggest difference in throw. it takes a while to find the right one for your wax, fragrance and container combo, but it will save a ton of money in the long run.

 

generally, if I don't get throw from a new scent, I'll scoop some from the dud candle and put it into a wax warmer  - making it act like a melt. If I get throw, it is the wick, not the wax or fragrance that is the culprit.

I ordered sample packs of CD and HTP wicks that will be here tomorrow. 

That's a good idea about using it as a melt. I'll definitely try that. Process of elimination!  

1 hour ago, TallTayl said:

I just read that you’re using eco14 in a pint mason jar. What is the diameter of that jar? with 464 eco 14 is a really big wick unless the container is pretty wide.

The jar is 4 inches across.

Ok, seasoned candle-makers ... I need some suggestions, pretty please.  I'm new to this and am having issues with HT. Would anyone be willing to share with me your favorite suppliers/FOs that you've had success with? I've ordered from Millcreek, The Candlemaker's Store, ThePlace4Candles (Etsy) and The Flaming Candle, and have also purchased a couple oils from my local Pat Catan's (Abbey & Sullivan brand). Surprisingly enough, the only oils I've had a nice HT from have been the ones from Pat Catan's. I have heard very good things about Rustic Escentuals, but have yet to place an order with them.

Here's what I'm doing/using:  GW 464 heated to 185, adding FO at that temp (I've tried anywhere from 6-8%) stirring for 2 full min, pouring between 145-135 and curing for 2 weeks. I use both jelly jars and pint-sized Mason jars. I'm still troubleshooting wicks, but am using ECO 14 in the Mason jars. I just ordered sample packs of HTP and CD wicks, which will be here tomorrow. 

SO .... any recommendations for FO suppliers/fragrances and/or suggestions regarding the process or products I'm using would be GREATLY appreciated! THANK YOU IN ADVANCE!! 

On 2/15/2018 at 2:09 PM, LitUp said:

Different fragrances also take different cure times I've found. Some they have incredible le throw after a few days, other will take 2-3 weeks before they have a good cold/hot throw.

Am I ok with 6% FO and added at 185 degrees? I had initially read that it should be added at a lower temp, but then saw in several different places that for this exact wax, it should be 185. And I wasn't sure if 6% was good enough, because from what I've seen that's the bottom of the range. I wanted to start there tho, because I didn't want to waste my FO. I made a couple new ones with my pint size mason jars (since my wicks are too big for the jelly jars) and 8% just to see how they turn out. And I'll definitely wait 2 weeks this time!  

On 2/13/2018 at 10:32 AM, olives said:

As @Trappeur says, 3 days is not enough cure time. 2 weeks should give you a much better result. Also, I think your wick is way too large for that jar...I wouldn't use anything bigger than an ECO 8 for that jar.

Thank you so much! 

17 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

Eco 14 in that wax is very large for almost all fragrances. The 464 wax melts very easily, which means you will have a wide and deep melt pool fairly quickly. The deeper the melt pool the worse your hot throw will be for several reasons:

- the temperature of the melt pool will drop as it grows, changing the air and wax currents preventing them from being able to throw the combusted wax and fragrance into the air

-thenflame of and eco14 gets very tall, scary tall if not trimmed even in the right size vessel.

- the deeper the melt pool gets the greater the chance that your wick will begin to sag under the surface , making it look like the flame is drowning out. It can even make the wick tip into the melt pool extinguishing it. Less is more!

 

An 8 oz jelly jar is pretty narrow. From memory it is narrower than 3”. I would start with an eco 6 or 8 depending on your fragrance and wax lot. Every box of soy wax,  464 being no exception,  is slightly different, so you’ll need to learn how your wax performs so you can tell when something is going wrong. 

 

Curing Is important for a few reasons. Soy wax crystallizes over time. While the candle will most likely be cooled after 48 hours, it has not completed its internal structuring of the crystals. The burn may not be able to  scent. Plus, there’s molecular water that will be drying out over time. The wax will become harder and better structured at a microscopic level, which all helps you create a stellar candle. You will find if you make two candles that the way one burns and throws at two days is often very different from one you burn at two weeks. 5is is not a craft for the imataient, I’m afraid. 

 

And fragrances.... oh boy fragrances... every soy wax maker will tell you the same thing: they are all hit or miss with soy wax. It is a fact of life. Dig in and be patient.

Wow, thank you so very much for all of that information! I sincerely appreciate your taking the time to explain all of this to me. I'll be taking some notes from your reply, for sure! Lol! I'm pretty patient in this area, so hopefully I'll be ok. I did read that, while soy wax itself is easy to work with, fragrance can be a little tricky. I definitely want to stick with soy, tho, so I'll keep chugging along! I had a feeling there was a lot more to the wicks that I didn't know, but I was having trouble finding some good information on the subject. Not even from the ECO people themselves. I'll get it figured out eventually. I knew going into this that I wasn't going to be an overnight success and, so far, I've done a lot better than I expected I would. The hot throw is the only area where I seem to be having trouble and I believe that with the information I got today from you wonderful people, I may be well on my way to making some beautifully scented candles. I'm currently only making them for myself, and my family and friends, so they don't need to be perfect.  

Everything I was reading online was telling me "at least 48 hours". I have yet to find a reliable source of information out there anywhere, so I figured this was my best option. The wicks I have are what came with my starter kit. I did look on the ECO website and this size jar was at the low end of the size range, so I had a feeling it was too big. I'll definitely order some smaller wicks. So if I do that and wait at least 2 weeks, hopefully I'll be ok. What percentage of FO do you recommend? I tried 6% in all the candles I had made up to this point, but yesterday I tried a pint size mason jar with 8%. We shall see. Speaking of which, do you think the ECO 14's are good for that size jar? Thank you so much for taking time out to help me! I really appreciate it.

On 2/13/2018 at 10:09 AM, Trappeur said:

I use 464 and for the jelly jars use a cd 8 or cd 10 with a cure time of (2 WEEKS)  3 days is not any cure time.  Don't know anything about the ecos.

What oils are you using and where from?  Some oils are not compatible with waxes too.

 

Trappeur

I looked all over the place to find out what the best cure time was, and the most common answer I found was "at least 48 hours". I did see in a forum somewhere that, like you, someone had the best success at 2 weeks. I'll definitely try that. I have oils from The Flaming Candle, Candlemaker's Store, the Etsy store where I ordered my starter kit (The Place 4 Candles) and a couple from my local Pat Catan's because I was impatient and didn't want to wait for an order lol! I did make sure that they were all specifically for candles. I'm not too educated on the oils, tho, and don't know how to find out which ones work best with soy, unless that's just a matter of trial and error. What percentage of FO do you typically add? I'm very, very new to this and am trying to learn as much as I can, but there is so much conflicting information out there. I figured I'd try my luck here and come straight to people who have actually had success making candles. Thank you for your time!

I am very new to candle making, so please bear with me (and speak to me using layman's terms! Lol!) I am using GW 464, melting to 185, adding 6% FO, stirring for 2 full minutes, pouring anywhere between 135-145 and curing for a minimum of 3 days. CT is always great, but HT not so much. I've tried various oils from different companies. For the most part, I'm using 8 oz jelly jars and ECO 14 wicks. Any advice? (without adding paraffin) Thank you in advance!