Forrest

11 minutes ago, xxxAlpha71xxx said:

Thanks CR.  Yeah,that was part of my problem.  I jumped into it with my eyes wide shut and started tossing together multiple scents with multiple containers with multiple wicks.  I'm giving myself a bit of a reset and going back to exactly what you recommended.

Here is some advice I learned in engineering school, and then relearned here at NASA. To properly test something you can only have one variable. Usually this will be your wick. You can run multiple test at the same time once you have a good feel for what you are doing. For example I recently wick tested 8 different FOs at the same time, but those are 8 separate test being run in parallel with the wick as the variable. Another key is get a good system to document everything. Whatever works for you is good. For wick testing I just number my test candles and keep all their information in a log book.   

1) Not much when properly wicked.

2) If you trim it between burnings it might not mushroom.

3) Not normally.

4) Let me know if you find one.

5) I can’t answer that one.

6) As long as al the wax melts eventually it is OK

7) My list is limited as all of my containers require wicks smaller than a CD10 at the moment. I would highly recommend that as you are doing testing and find that one wick is bigger than another one, write it down and use the information to expand the list.

17 hours ago, Candybee said:

During the winter months while I am doing weekly markets and craft shows I just leave my cases of candles in the trunk of my car. So they are stored in the winter in anywhere from 0 - 50 degrees. Most of the winter thou is below freezing during the night hours. Never had any problems with the candles. But have not noticed that they smell particularly better or stronger throwing for it. I use container palm if that helps.

That makes sense; the wax is already a solid, so it won’t change state, and the FO is an oil so it isn’t likely to freeze. I suspect curing would be slower at 0⁰, but I’m not sure it would make enough difference to notice. Curing will stop altogether at -459⁰, but you would be burning those candles for heat long before it got that cold in your trunk.

18 hours ago, xxxAlpha71xxx said:

I did a similar test with various CD's and LX's.  My results were similar to yours.   Particularly interesting to me is the LX's.  The diameter of your 16 was smaller than your 14.  My results were similar except my 18 had a smaller diameter than my 16, with the 18 having a melt pool roughly the depth of a swimming pool.

I ran another test in 8oz tins with LX 16 & 14 and got better results. I've had a similar problem with CD 6 & 8 before. usually if the test results look like an anomaly they probably are; just part of the joy of candle making.

19 hours ago, xxxAlpha71xxx said:

Hmmm.  I thought for sure there was a way to edit my post but can't seem to find it.  Anyway, ignore my question-unless I'm wrong-read a few more pages into my search and seems that somewhere around 2 weeks is about right.  

Curing is a process and while it seems to go on for a very long time the rate of curing slows over time. Two weeks is a "good enough" number. Some FOs I use seem to be fine at that, while others have very poor HT at two weeks, but good HT at 5 weeks. As best I can tell at two months you are pretty close to fully cured. That's not practical if you are making candles for sale, but if you are making candles for yourself you can make extras a nd put the aside for a couple of months.

I poured two 8oz tins with 6006 and 7% lemon verbena. I put one in the refrigerator and one in the garage. I also put each of them in Ziploc bags. After two weeks I took them out and gave them 24 hours to come to room temperature. Both my wife and I did a blind test to pick which one had the better CT. We both picked the one that had cured in the garage, the difference wasn’t huge, but it was noticeable. Testing the HT was much more difficult. Every room in my house is a different size with different airflow. In the end I have to say the results were inconclusive. If one did have a better HT it was the one from the garage, but they could have been even and I might have reach the same conclusion. One bit of evidence that the garage candle had cured faster was that it produced a noticeably smaller MP, which could account for the difference in HT not being significant. Initially I had planned to give them a month before testing, but you know how that goes. I put them back in their bags and back in the refrigerator and the garage. It will be four weeks before I can test them again; at that time I would expect the results to be definitive. If my hypothesis is correct you should cure your candles in the warmest place possible so long as it never exceeds the melting point of the wax, but we won’t know for sure until next month.  

My local Target has them, but they cost a little more. For small quantities it would be cheaper to get then there.

2 hours ago, NightLight said:

Short run here not expensive

https://www.vistaprint.com/marketing-materials/hang-tags?GP=06%2f07%2f2019+07%3a01%3a08&GPS=5401455866&GNF=1

 

best you print yourself is with a laser printer.

 

Love the rubber stamp idea but if the look doesn’t represent you then you have to use something else.

 

I looked at them, but I need a folded hang tag, if it wern't for that they would have been perfect.

9 hours ago, candlesinflorida said:

I have seen high-end candle companies that have printed packaging and then in an area that is already printed white, they put a tiny label (on top of the white area) with the scent name. This way, at first glance, it looks like it is part of the custom printing, even though it isn't. You really can't tell that the white part of the label has a little sticker in the middle.

 

So basically-you could design generic company labels and have them printed professionally, with a large white rectangle incorporated somewhere on the label design. Then put your teeny scent sticker in the middle of the white rect. so the label background blends in. 

That's what I was thinking, I can order 1,000 hang tags and get the cost per tag down to a reasonable level. Then I could put the sticker on the back of the hang tag.

9 hours ago, candlesinflorida said:

TWO THOUGHTS:

 

1) To make life easier, design the labels in a way that it won't matter if they are slightly off center.  Be sure not to create any shapes or circular writing or anything that will look bad if it is not perfectly centered. I have done that when I am running low on time or feel sick of the process lol

 

2) This is a big learning curve...but if you can manage to learn how to use a digital cutter, you can design and print within the program and create hang-tags in any shape you want, with a hole (or a star or any other cut shape!) and you can print-and-cut together. (Meaning that the program sends the design to your printer and creates laser guidelines that cuts the precise, exact shapes in the right place). Everything will look perfect and you can easily do as many as you want, for super cheap per piece.

(Btw, this is how I always do my labels and dust covers).

My wife has always wanted one of those. These days she wants it to make stencils to airbrush cookies, but she had other reasons in the past. It would be perfect if my volume justified the cost. Maybe I could buy her one as a present and use it for my labels.

I certainly want to get paid, the thing is I'm not going to increase production to match sales. I'll make however many candles I want to and if that's too many I'll slow down. If it is too few I won't worry about it. I'll be selling them wholesale so I don't have to worry about all the messy stuff. I think I can work a deal with my retailer to adjust the price so that sales will approximately match production. I was thinking about $14.50 wholesale, that would cover my cost and give me $10 for my time. If she agrees to carry them I'll go up or down on the price depending on how they sell. Or maybe I'll get lucky and she won't want to carry them.

1 hour ago, Laura C said:

 

Funny you bring that up because I've been thinking about the same thing with labels and the different scents.

I think it would work, if my printer can get the text in the right place. The advantage is that it would cut way down on my cost per hang-tag and allow me to change/add scents. I could make a place on the tag for the sticker so that it doesn't look like an afterthought.

40 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

You could

 

- have them all printed with a check list of scents.  Check mark the scent on the label manually or with a cute stamp.

- hand write names

I hadn't thought about including all the scents, that would work well so long as I don't change scents. As for hand writing the name, even I can't read my handwriting.

5 minutes ago, Sebleo said:

Onlinelabels.com has cardstock tags so you could print your own as needed. I’m sure other label companies have them as well but I order from them because they have a great price, fast shipping, always send coupons. And you get use of their printing program if you don’t have one you use already. 

 

I think printed would would look better than putting a sticker on a hang tag. 

 

https://www.onlinelabels.com/cardstock.htm

I haven't tried my new printer, but my old printer was always off center when I printed labels

I’m hoping to sell about 300 candles a year in 5 different FOs, which means approximately 60 per FO. With a little help and advice on this board I settled on hangtags. The problem is small batch printing is expensive, so having separate hangtags for each scent isn’t feasible. The best idea I’ve come up with is to print my own small, clear labels and put them on the back of the hangtag. Would that look OK? Anybody got a better idea?

1 hour ago, MilosCandles said:

This is forever the question.  Sounds like you need to make a few more of them to see how long it takes you.  You may need to keep the 2 ideas separate rather than trying to combine them.

I’m pretty sure that if I was making an average of a case per week after a month I get could my time for inking down to five minutes; but I don’t want to do that. I want to take my time and make sure each one is unique and beautiful, I don’t think that the candles will ever sell for enough to pay me for my time. I have to factor in that part of my payment is that I get to make more candles. Another part is knowing that people are enjoying something that I made. So really what I need is to set the price so that they don’t sell too fast and they don’t sell too slow; that’s the price I’m looking for.

54 minutes ago, xxxAlpha71xxx said:

@Forrest

 

Did you ever decide on a wick for your 8" tins?

 

@all

Do you think mixing in some 464 would help some of the wicking issues or is it not even worth it given that you wouldn't be able to say they are 100% soy candles?

 

I just got in my shipment and have 6 and 8 inch tins, 6 and 8 inch status jars, 464 and 6006, variety of zinc, Premier, CD, small and wood wicks.

 

This will be my first testing run and just trying to put together a plan before I get started.

I've been trying to wick 8oz tins with 18 different FO and the wick that I'm using the most is a 44 zinc core. However, I'm over wicking them to compensate for a long cure time. It may be that my taste in FOs tends toward scents that need smaller wicks. If I were starting with an unknown FO in an 8oz tin I think I would start testing with an LX16 or a CD6. I haven't found that it is difficult to wick the tins. I have found it is better to start small and work your way up. The reason is if you burn an underwicked candle for four hours and then replace the wick you haven't done any damage. If the candle was overwicked you melted a lot of wax and that will effect the results you get with the next wick. I like to do to get a full melt pool in the third or fourth hour of the second days burn. I look at the MP after four hours and if is close to a FMP, or if the MP is too small, I perform a wickectomy and start the next day with a new wick. That's why I made the wick chart. You should be able to get a good wick by the third day. I would not recommend adding 464 because that just adds one more variable to the equation.  Document everything, take notes and pictures, you'll need them in the future. I find jars are harder to wick because the wick may be perfect in the top half of the jar and too big for the bottom half.

I made two 11oz tureens with Vanilla Champagne and I inked them. I intend to give them to the owner of the gallery that carries my photography to see if she would like to carry them. In this case they have to be considered as both a candle and a work of art. I calculated all my cost and came up with $3.50. I could probably get that down below $3.00 with some effort. Now comes the hard part, I have no idea how long it will take me to make the candles or to ink the tureens.

The second problem is the unknown upfront cost. I’ll need warning labels, hang tags, and gold elastic cord. Plus I may need a presto pot and some way to hold the wick in place during cooling. Not to mention all the testing that will be required to get my wicking right. Calculating these cost depends on the volume, which I expect to be low. And then there is insurance I’ll need to get.

Lastly there is the question of why am I doing this. I want to make a profit, but I’m not in it for the money. I have two main goals. First I enjoy inking the tureens, and I want to get better at it. The second reason is I want to make high end candles. I have spent two years learning to make candles and I intend to make the best candles I am capable of making. All candles will be aged two months and supplies will be limited. Aging is probably unnecessary as most people use these candles for decoration and don’t burn them, but I’m going to do it anyway.

All this rambling made me realize I’m asking the wrong question. The better question is how much would people pay for these candles for?

Hi, I'm from Alabama also, Huntsville to be precise. I learned everything I know about candle making from this board and I learn more every day. Lots of nice, helpful people here.

Let it cure for an extra month and that should solve the problem

15 hours ago, bfroberts said:

I think the gist of it is I like figuring candles out more than I like actually making candles.

 

Me too, my hobby seems to be testing candles rather than making them. The candles I burn around the house are all the remnants of test candles. Have you tried the Premier 700 wicks? In my test they seemed to bend less than the CDs or LXs. What size ECO would you recommend for an 8oz tin? I’ll pour three different sizes on Saturday, but it may be three weeks before I can burn them.

18 hours ago, bfroberts said:

 I've used zinc wicks for a long time, but I'm trying to get away from them (that's a whole other story in itself).

 
I have had a decent amount of success with Eco 6 & 8 in the light to medium FO's.  The puzzling part is I cannot wick anything heavy (think amber, etc).  I can't get a decent MP with 6 or 8 but 10 tunnels fast...like it's overwicked.  I've gone up and down, but no matter which way I go, I get basically the same size MP.  Just a bigger or smaller flame.  Am I missing something?

 

Or does anyone else have any insight?  Any other wick suggestions?  Hugs and prayers?

Oh my, you've always been my mentor when it comes to wicking 6006. I would love to know the story with the zincs, and please keep us informed on your progress; I have a large collection of ECO wicks, maybe I should try and fit them into my wick list. Do hugs and prayers count if they are motivated by self interest? If so I'm sending lots of them.

On 6/1/2019 at 10:18 AM, xxxAlpha71xxx said:

Post #1!!!!

 

Hi all.  Love the list.  

 

@Forrest.  Thanks for putting this list together and for the testing you've done on 6006.

 

I'm looking to start using 6006 and from everything I've read it can be a pain to wick.

 

The container I am looking to use is a 12 oz glass mason jar.  Diameter is 2.91", which is almost identical to an 8 oz tin.  I know that temperature, materials, FO, etc affect the burn and I'm ready to do lots of testing.  All I've used for containers thus far is 8 oz tins and 6 oz jars using 464 so I'm starting from scratch.  My question is that given the similarity of the diameters between the jar and the tin would this list be a good starting point? 

 

Below is the jar I'm looking at.  Measurements are 4.75"height, 2.91" diameter.

I have very little experience with Jars, but here is what I would do. I would start with a CD8 and, after a two week cure; I would do a 4 hour test burn. Take pictures at 2, 3, and 4 hours. I would post the pictures here and get opinions from those more knowledgeable than I am. Then if I needed to wick up or down I would do a wickectomy and use the list to pick the next wick. With luck you’ll have a good wick by your third choice, but still on the first candle with no additional cure time.

1 hour ago, jaybee said:

cd8

wi750

cd7

wi745

😁

Well, I guess I need to get me some CD7s

52 minutes ago, jaybee said:

hi forrest.....i'm assuming that you're ranking these by mp size? I just did a pan test and my results were quite surprising to me as far as mp size goes....I burned them for exactly an hour and then took measurements.....is one hr enough time to do a good comparison? Ugh...I hope so......anyways, Im beginning to wonder if different waxes put the results in a different order...kwim? Thoughts?

 

TT is correct about the time, and I suspect different waxes give somewhat different results. I did a 6006 pan test with several of these wicks, see Wax and Wick Test section, and got some odd results. I retested then in 8oz tins and got better results.  I would say that my list is a reasonably good starting point for 6006 in 8oz tins, and might be useful information for other waxes, but more testing would be needed.