obsessed

On 5/18/2017 at 2:01 AM, TallTayl said:

Back in that day, crisco was mostly partially hydrogenated Palm oil. Palm, imo, throws better than coconut. 

 

Chandlers I know use cottonseed (also in some shortening), Palm, Palm kernel, soy oil, canola, etc. to change the texture of they soy wax so it works the way they like. Once you learn your wax it becomes easier to know how much to add. Honestly, soy wax dries out over time, so adding someone else's amount might not work the same for you. 

 

When i experiment (which is often) I set up a line. The first container is the control with no additives.  Then I make several more candles with the variations I want to test. 5%, 10%, etc .let them cure then light them up and take pictures and good notes. Adjust for the next round of tests. This has launched me into better chandling than any other practice. 

thanks for that! yes I need to do a plain one and then others. I never dreamed I would be making so many "test" candles once I had learnt the basics. I made a 60/40 paraffin/soy blend and lit it tonight. It is going really nice so far. My 2 straight scented soys are another story! hahaha a few holes and the 464 has a bit of dark soot that has mixed in the melt pool and just looks messy. 

so beautiful ... they look really creamy and professional.  Did you do just straight 464? how do you get smooth tops? Mine looks a bit like orange peel on one of them .. the heat gun made it worse. I wish I hadn't bought clear glass jars ... they are driving me crazy

Hi Trappeur ... I love your crystal candles! Just a quick question , do you still test each jar? How do you know what wick to do if they are all different?! I am having enough trouble with just one large jar!! LOL

wow they look awesome ... I have never seen a candle with decorations like that. So much work I bet! Lovely to see something different ... keep posting! Love your animal Pics too ... I live in a log cabin in the bush so I appreciate nature too

they all look so lovely ... I always am smelling my candles when they are curing! haha they smell soo good! do you use just straight GW464 or blend it? I am testing some at the moment and am not too happy with my tops. i will try pouring at 150f like you said

On 3/30/2017 at 2:51 PM, Faerywren said:

I use 464 and 4630 at a 60/40 ratio for containers. For tarts, I use 464 and 4625 at a 50/50 ratio.

 

I just whipped some up today ... can't wait to try them. they are looking pretty good so far ... I usually use a CND 16 in the jars I use , so thought I may need to wick down to a CDN 14 as the 4630 burn quicker and smokes sometimes with the 16 if I remember well. Fingers crossed they work.

ounces and pounds does my head in! LOL Also farenheight and celcius ... I am constantly uploading the conversion charts! hahaha  we need a universal craft measurement system!! Everything has become so much simpler here since we got computers

On 5/15/2017 at 3:52 PM, inthedark said:

I’m in Australia and I have used it. It looks and behaves like a vegetable oil, it’s essentially odourless, has a yellow color to it and has very similar viscosity to vegetable oil. I did read somewhere that it was possibly the same as universal soy additive in the United States. My guess is that it maybe canola or soy oil or a blend of the two. I have used straight soy oil and container maker and I didn’t notice much of a difference between the two. It does seem to help reduce the frosting issues and assists with smooth tops and container adhesion after pouring with GW464 soy wax but still doesn’t make the GW464 wax perfect. I also found that it had a negligible effect on scent throw with the fragrances I was using at the time I tried it, 4 week curing times had more effect on scent throw. I am currently testing it on a new wax blend that I have been working on for some time and it appears to have reduced the sooting with a longish wick to some extent.

what if it is Soy Oil and USA mixed together eh?!! A pinch here, a splash there ... its not at all expensive , so has to be a cheap oil of some kind

On 10/28/2016 at 6:15 PM, inthedark said:

I’m in the same boat as you, I’ve been trying to come up with the perfect candle for over 2 years and I still don’t have anything that is perfect, I’ve come up with blends that work but none are perfect and out of 300 + fragrances that I have tested, I have found 17 that I like and 3 of those are proving very difficult to wick in soy wax to get a decent and reliable flame. I am on the verge of quitting candle making but I must admit that I am seriously addicted to it and like most addictions, it can cost you serious amounts of money. I am now getting so desperate that I am experimenting with parasoy wax blends.

You are quite right about some of the retail candles, they do tend to soot quite badly once the wick gets a bit of length on it and I have one brand (starts with a D) that I burn as a comparison which is very expensive, quite popular and it soots it’s back side off and intermittently sets off the smoke alarm.

In regards to the temperature, I say 82.2 deg C just to make my own life difficult but it can be any ware from 80 to 85 deg C without any major detectable hot or cold scent throw difference with soy wax. The parasoy that I am playing with at the moment is a no name brand, the supplier doesn’t list the manufacturer so I have to experiment with it to find out it’s likes and dislikes, so far I have found out that the optimal scent throw occurs when the fragrance is added at or around 85 deg C with my chosen testing fragrance oil but that will probably vary with different brands of wax and fragrances. The parasoy does tend to get quite sooty (regardless if it’s a CDN or HTP wick) when the wick is long and the flame is disturbed or dancing, just like some of the major brand candles.

In relation to temperatures, most thermometers usually have some sort of tolerance than can be plus or minus 1 or 2 degrees from the actual wax temperature. I use infrared and conventional digital thermometers and they never give the same read out. The two infrared thermometers that I have provide a fairly consistent 1.5 degree difference between them.

What I would do with any new soy wax that I decide to try is heat the wax to around 82 to 85 deg C, add the fragrance oil at or around 82 deg C, stir in gently for around 2 minutes, let it cool to a temperature of between 72 to 76 deg C and take a sniff from the top of the pot to check the hot scent throw potential, I say between 72 and 76 deg C because that is quite often the melted wax pool temperature when a soy wax candle is burning but this is no guarantee that the hot scent will be the same once the candle has cured, it only gives you a rough indication of its potential. I then let the wax cool or reheat the wax to pouring temperature and pour slowly to minimize adding in to many air bubbles. Let the candle cure for a week and then burn it to check the hot scent throw, if the hot scent throw is weak or non-existent, I then wait another week and burn it again and keep doing this for an 8 week period. If I find that I really need a candle burning fix within a 24 hour period from creation, I usually make one 8 ounce tin and one glass container (with a similar opening size to the 8 ounce tin) from the same wax batch, let the glass container sit for a few weeks and burn the tin candle to get the “I have to burn it now “ sensation over with. If the hot scent throw from the tin is really disappointing or non-existent, I then let the tin candle sit for another week and then burn it again for a 3 -4 hour session and check the hot scent throw. I keep doing this for an 8 week period. If I still have an average hot scent throw by the end of the 8 week period, I then burn the glass container candle. If the glass container candle provides an average or substandard hot scent throw after an 8 week period, I place the fragrance in the “has to be tried with other waxes” bin or don’t persevere working with it.

i also am in Australia and am pretty sure I bought my paraffin from the same place ..no name. I msg them enquiring its brand and it was a highly reputable one. So maybe e-mail them and they will tell you on the quiet! LOL I had an epiphany tonight also about fragrances. Write the flashpoint of your fragrance on your bottles and try to add to wax as close as you can. It made so much sense .. if you add the oil higher than its flashpoint , it will burn off. If you add it too low from the flashpoint , it will not bind! Now I know why one of my candles has literally zero throw! tomorrow cant come fast enough hehehe  Did you find anything about CD wicks being the same as CDN? I have only seen CDN and HTP here , not much choice. Iy is doing my head in trying to wick the XL Danube jar

On 5/15/2017 at 0:49 AM, Karen M said:

Many years ago when I first played around with candles, my friend and I put Crisco in our paraffin, and when I played with straight soy wax I always added coconut oil. To me it helped with scent throw.

So you used oil not coconut 'wax"? Can you give me an idea of how much to use without making the candle too soft?  I have also read a bit on Crisco , but it is not available here. Thanks for your help

4 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

4630 is the harmony blend, right? 15-20% in C3 makes a world of difference as far as appearance IMO.

 

CD, CDN etc. wicks work well for most fragrances in my C3. The flame is pretty, as is the melt pool. 

 

YouTube recommendation to mix the fragrance at such a low temp can get you into some trouble with incomplete mixing of the fragrance, especially with heavier oils. The last thing you want is pooling of your fragrance beneath the wax surface, or seeping of the fragrance. Both conditions can lead to flares.

yes it is Harmony I think. Oh I never thought of mixing 2 different soys! I was thinking of a parasoy blend ... but I really like the sound of trying those 2. I thought they were pretty similar. Obviously not! LOL You all are so informative ... 

24 minutes ago, moonshine said:

You can start taking a happy medium between the 2 waxes suggested pour temp from the manufacturers 

if your adding 30% paraffin I would think you could pour quite a bit hotter than 100

its is addicting....have fun playing and keep us posted on your results 

tonight I've been reading up on blending and a few people said not to mix 4630 with 464 ... what do you think? no-one mentioned c3! I have been reading for so long its now nearly 11pm and too late to start LOL  My mind is too busy to sleep!

2 minutes ago, moonshine said:

You can start taking a happy medium between the 2 waxes suggested pour temp from the manufacturers 

if your adding 30% paraffin I would think you could pour quite a bit hotter than 100

its is addicting....have fun playing and keep us posted on your results 

tonight I've been reading up on blending and a few people said not to mix 4630 with 464 ... what do you think? no-one mentioned c3! I have been reading for so long its now nearly 11pm and too late to start LOL  My mind is too busy to sleep!

4 hours ago, moonshine said:

Benefit of pouring hotter is getting more made faster - when you poor cool it takes so much more time and time is money 

soy burning cooler means just that- you usually have to wick way up compared to a paraffin candle 

Utube videos are very misleading and provide false information 

I make soy and I pour cooler....do I get off the charts throw? I would say yes BUT I make parasoy as well and pour hot and the throw blows soy away

you have to experiment and learn from your own testing what works and what doesn't - not to say all videos are bad but most are misleading - you honestly will get bettter advice and starting points reading through threads on here from people that take this seriously and want to help others 

Good advice as usual! Thankyou so much for that ... so what temps are recommended for pouring parasoy? ihave C3 and 464 ..... as well as some 4630. I will do some blending ... soy70/30 ? aarrggh ... LOL It is so fun and addictive!!!  I could do this 24/7 I think!!

On 5/14/2017 at 7:52 AM, debratant said:

Hello Obsessed. Is it possible to post a picture?  IMO, you should not expect a full melt pool on the first, or sometimes even the 2nd burn.

It would be helpful to see your container, and the wax that you are describing as hanging up on the sides.  

Thanks Deb , I don't know how to put photos from my phone onto the computer yet ... ashamedly! So I will get my daughters to sort me out LOL I just want to get it right!!

On 5/15/2017 at 1:29 AM, Trappeur said:

Hello Obsessed,

So we are all on the same page, tunneling is where the candle when lit burns straight down the middle of the candle as if the wick was undersized and just couldn't start melting outwards towards the side walls of the jar.  And "hang up" is where the candle is melted across the diameter of the candle and there is wax residue left on the sides of the glass.  And like KK said Debra said you will see wax hangup for the first couple of burns if you are doing like in 3 hour test increments.  The further down the candle that it burns, those side walls of the glass jar are going to heat up and that wax residue will start melting off the sides of the jar if the wick selected is the correct size.  

 

As mentioned add your oil about 175 farenheight degrees and stir till the oil is fully blended.  Now I pour at about 149 degrees to get some nice looking tops.

I might or might not have to do a second very thin repour across the top of the candle (just depends how the temperature is in my house).  I don't worry too much how the tops look as my concern is to get the right size wick.  You can always rectify the tops by doing a repour or like most use the heat gun.  In cold weather, my concern is getting thin hairline cracked tops which in this case after I have done the repour is lay maybe a paper towel across the top as the wax cools and then if the house is still cool, I put in boxes right away, close them and pad the sides and tops of the boxes with a heavy blanket, or something for warmth.  This is a pain in the butt and I just hate it when it comes to something like this, so I guess you just should not have a house not freezing cold to store candles (if you do it and sell wholesale as I do).  Since you are so limited for wick brands, at least the brands you have, the cdn and htp are great choices in my opinion as I use the htp's myself.  

 

C3 is a wonderful wax.....it truly is.  Like kk said all soys have their idiosyncrasies.  You just have to know that it is going to take TIME, PATIENCE AND LOTS OF TESTING.  Don't get disgusted and throw in the towel. YOU CAN master this wax BUt you have to have "patience"......If you don't have the time to be patient in this craft you might as well hang up the towel and get another craft project...I was different than most.  I never tried a half dozen different types waxes to see what I liked when I didn't know what to compare it to when I started out.  You really can't judge a wax in a couple of weeks and say I don't like it and then move on to some other type.  I would keep reading here on the board and see what everyone has to say about their journeys into the wax world and take notes.  Just because this works for this person and then someone who uses the same wax does it a different way says this is the way they do it, well we all have our own final testings and judgments to make and you are going to go through this yourself.  Posting pictures says a lot, so if you can do that, it would be great.

 

Golden wax has some great waxes and I use  464.  I found it similar as far as wicking goes compared to c3.  Others use 415 and 444.  I myself use 464 and c3.  Now in golden wax 464 I use cd's and on occasion use htps.  And don't forget.....IMPORTANT.....YOU NEED TO CURE C3 AND 464....Some oils are going to be great throwers and some not.   Just goes with all testings done.  Buy oils from reputable companies that have been in business for a long time.  Read up here and see what oils are great throwers for the wax you are using.   It makes all the world of difference when going with quality oils.  I use 6% oil.  Sometimes when you go with more it could clog the wicks or just be a big waste of money for oil by going with a larger percentage.  You just have to test.

 

This is my unbiased opinion on this topic.  WE all have our own opinions and you will come up with yours!  When you get frustrated and want' to throw in the towel......well, walk away and go do something else and take a break and come back later....if you get frustrated again...do the same thing again.  REMEMBER.....PATIENCE.....

 

Trappeur

 

Wow ...thankyou so much for your time and patience there. I am loving candle making , but it is a game of make and wait. I have spent sooo much money ,but hopefully I will get it right one of these days! I just read on my 2nd post ... mis-typed that I would try " just coconut wax and try 6%" ! What I meant was JUST SOY! OMG I need to get out more! LOL  I will persevere with the C3 .... do you use additives or blend your soys? I am just curious as there is so much talk about mixing stuff. Do you believe in just using straight C3 or 464 and not bothering with additives? Thanks again

On 3/12/2017 at 0:24 PM, moonshine said:

I think the attraction to soy is all the hype soy candle makers made about it being "safer" to burn, allegations of poisons and toxins in paraffin being a fuel byproduct...

That is what I always hear about anyways when people remark how glad they are I have soy candles....I set them straight on it because if you research it it's all BS- a huge marketing gimmick to sell soy

I started with soy and that's what I mainly make, it fits my area of what people want and it's really all I know- I have been playing with parasoy for a couple years and planned to introduce a line with colors and a different type jar because my soy are not colored but I can't seem to get it together keeping up with the soy and messing with wicking all the scents I want to offer 

advantages to soy IMO are you do not see the soot unless you wick it really bad and it does burn cooler, other than that there are many disadvantages as the parasoy takes color beautifully, it does not frost and it's so much easier to get a strong throw along with the creamy look plus you can pour hotter ?

 

Please pardon my ignorance , as I am fairly new at this , but what is the benefit of being able to pour hotter? Also . soy burns cooler ... what difference does that make to your candle? There is so much to learn! I am experimenting with pouring at a really low temp of 100f at the moment and adding F/O at 125f. I saw a You Tube video on it where a girl claims her fragrances are "Off the chart" by doing this . I will try anything! LOL My main problem at the moment though is wicking ... we can only get CDN and HTP wicks and I am finding it so frustrating ... so much hang-up! Any help is appreciated .. thankyou

On 5/3/2017 at 11:25 PM, TallTayl said:

Coconut wax is just hydrogenated coconut oil. Just like soy wax is just hydrogenated soybean oil. 

Makes you wonder if any other pantry oils would work similarly to improve a less-than-ideal wax. 

I think the coconut wax I bought was also mixed with some soy ... so I was paying extra for that too! I never dreamed this would be so technical LOL  In Australia a company is selling a "soy based Container blend" that they rave about. It's supposed to fix all sorts of things , but they wont disclose what it is. I wondered if it was actual Soy bean Oil ... I cannot find any literature on this being added to soy wax , but would be interested if anyone has tried it. I read in soap ect. that it hardens soap , so don't knowif it would affect adherence and burn time. I have seen a few people say not to bother with coconut in soy .. is it a waste of time? 

8 hours ago, kandlekrazy said:

So you are getting a full melt pool and then it starts to tunnel on the relight?  Soy does take a while to catch up but usually doesn't tunnel after a full melt pool so I'm not really sure what's going on.  Usually it's the other way around, you will have wax hangup for the first burn or two and then it catches up. 

 

I'm not sure about the size wick as I don't use HTP wicks.  In that size container I use a 62C or 60C cotton core wick with C3.  You are adding your fragrance a bit late, try adding it at 175-185 but that shouldn't cause tunneling.  The recommended for C3 is 6% so I'd try that first.  Are you blending with coconut wax or coconut oil?  And are you doing that just to be able to add more fo?   If it's coconut oil, I'd just leave it out and use 6%.

Ok , so it sounds like what I have is called 'hangup' .. it's not tunnelling. I will light it again today and see if this rectifies. We only have CDN and HTP wicks here , so the choice is very limited. My friend thinks even the CDN vary between wholesalers and I think I may agree. The same size seem to vary in thickness , so it's a very confusing!  Also , the wick comparison charts I find on the net also vary greatly in the melt pool size ... I have also tested straight coconut oil 10% AND coconut wax10%. I was hoping it would improve adherence and smooth out the tops. I actually lit the fire to warm up my freezing house and wrapped folded tea towels around the large jars with pegs ... they look great LOL! Like little babies in blankets haha. I will use just the coconut wax and try 6% as you have suggested ... is C3 OK? We can also get Golden wax here , but I have heard it can be difficult. Thankyou so much for taking the time to reply

I have a reoccurring problem where wax is staying stuck to the glass jars as my soy candles melt down. I read that it was because I was under-wicking , but on several occasions  my wicks have been too big with a full melt pool and this is still happening. I have just made a 83mm (3.26")  wide candle with HTP 100XL wick as was recommended. Flame ended up really tall and smoking , full melt pool after about 3 hours . I re-lit it tonight for another 2 hours and I have about 15-20mm of wax on the sides! What am I doing wrong? Added fragrance at 160f and poured at !20f using C3 / 10% coconut wax/8% fragrance oil. I have made sooo many it is driving me crazy! ( it's getting cold in Australia so trying to pour at cooler temps to prevent wet spots).

One of the candle supply places sells a soy based oil they call "container maker" that they say fixes a lot of problems. I can't find out what it is ... but wonder if anyone has tried that to fix this problem? Even wondered if it was Soy Bean Oil? thankyou

you seem to have such a lot of choices in wicks in the US. In Australia , all I can find is HTP and CDN. If you don't like one ,then all you can do is swap over! All our wholesalers recommend HTP for Soy , but their range jumps around and doesn't cover a lot of jars available. I tested the HTP105 which was pitiful in a medium tumbler , along with CDN 14 & CDN 16. In the end , the CDN16 was the best , but still I had problems with wax left on the side of the jar. If I went up to an 18, the flame would be way too big. I am at a loss on how to overcome this. With all your experience , any suggestions would be appreciated

thankyou...  I made a blend like that yesterday , but need to wait a few days before trying it .  I did 70/30 soy /paraffin ... then later added 3% of the total weight in coconut OIL. ( I read somewhere that coconut wax may be a blend with soy , so i used the oil instead. )  I blended soy and coconut wax last week and noticed a greater hot throw. 

92% wax + 8% oil = 100%  total weight required    ..so much easier when you work in grams maybe?

thanks everyone ... I wanted to reply to some of your comments , but I don't know how to "personally" reply to some of your comments ( where it says on 01/05/17 obsesed said; ..blah blah blah). how do I do that?! LOL  anyway ... I am going to persevere with the C3 and try blending it. I have tried lots of pour temps ect on its own. 

haha .. thanks guys. My house is inundated with candles at the moment , all burning away at different rates! I tried som IGI Paraflex  , which adheres beautifully ,but I am not sure if I want to persevere with it. The throw is good , but after using soy , I don't like the cleaning up . it also seems to lose its temperature a lot faster when I remove it from the stove ( but it is getting cooler as well here)>  so not sure. My friend said that everyone wants soy these days , so as Flicker suggested , maybe I just need to find which fragrances work best with the wax I use. Soy looks sooo good in comparison to the Paraflex ,so creamy and opaque.  Just a quick question , should I try Golden wax 464 or stick to C3? Any advice would be appreciated. I have read so many conflicting articles about Golden 464 ,  a lot to do with holes and cracking!  thanks for your time

In Australia we have "Glasshouse" retail candles which have a super strong scent and are all paraffin. I want to try to achieve this - I'm currently using C3 which I love , but have found it to have a much gentler scent throw. When I rang my supplier , the girl was a little vague and suggested I try a soy/paraffin blend first. I am confused to say the least!I have heard IGI 4630 full paraffin to be strong ... any suggestions? Brands available in Australia would be appreciated!