Glassfishy

Can I piggy back on this thread??? PLEASE OH PLEASE... I am a former CB Advanced user trying to make the switch over to another available wax. I need guidance from others that use perhaps 464 or another wax...Preferably soy. We are starting the arduous task of retesting ALL of our candle scents (there's 30+ non Holiday Season) and I'm at my wits end. I was able to find (3) boxes of the Advanced (at a premium) to get us by but I'm afraid the way things are going we're not going to make it. What I'm wanting to know for those that use the 464... Which brand of wicks do you use? We have always used ECO wicks and that is what I am currently testing. I picked (12) of our candles that are great hot throws (in the CB Advanced) and are concentrating on those. I hear everyone say the 464 is great but things aren't gelling just yet. I feel like I'm getting inconsistent burns with ECO wicks and the 464 and want to see what other brands of wicks everyone use. I made a few candles with CD and LX wicks today that I will test, but my fear is I'm trying to jump all over the place with wicks and I'll end up making things more confusing. I'm not asking for you to design my candles but just some direction as to which most people prefer. Also... I see where others use waxes other than 464. Should I test those out as well? I have a box of the 6006 but we have so many people that buy our candles because of the ALL SOY factor. (I'm not a ALL SOY fanatic. I realize there are two sides to every story. Just depends on what side you're on.) Just need a nudge in one certain way so I can get this ball rolling. I want to make great candles. Here's what we've been doing for testing purposes on the 464: 1. Heat Wax to 180-185. 2. Add Fragrance oil and mix well 3. Pour in Jars at 100-105... We use a 12oz. plain sided mason jar (see pic) with the ECO wicks I purchased from Lonestar. I am consistent with where I purchase my wicks because those were the ones I started all my testing years ago with the Advanced. So that's what I have on hand. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Steve

Which brand of wicks do you guys use with the 464? When we were using the Ecosoya Advanced we stuck with the ECO. I'll be honest it's hit or miss with them as sometimes they test great and then when moved into production we have varied results. So since we're attempting to switch to the 464 I started with the ECO wicks (from same place) and are also getting varied results. So was curious which wicks you guys use? I have a whole box of wicks I'd like to try to see if I get better results with those... Steve Stivers

I actually reached out to them on their web page and got a message back tonight... Great Customer Service... They are really nice people. Anyway. They said they pulled the products in Late November... On another note... I just bought (3) boxes of the CB Advanced for $123 Shipped. Or at least I hope I did. I'm hoping that this company just hasn't forgot to remove the product from their website. This will give me a chance to figure out our next step. The guy at The Candlemakers Store also suggested switching to the 464. Gonna go out and read reviews on the 464. Would love to hear from everyone on here. Steve

That's funny.... That's the online place I order my wax from. I should call them tomorrow. I'm sure they'll say they're out. But they're selling it online for $30 for a 10lb bag...

I found one place that has it for $86 per case but the shipping is crazy. It would make it $123 per case.

Everyone I have looked at is OUT OF STOCK. Again, they discontinued it in Late November and everyone was buying it up to give themselves time to either wait it out or go ahead and switch. Me, I'm just lolly gagging around without a care or any idea.... We were even planning a camping trip to drive up around one of our fragrance suppliers for the day and swing by the candle place to pick up a load of wax.

Ehatch... We used the advanced for our tarts and containers. It was a great wax. I have looked on ebay but people are wanting $21 for 5 lbs. At this point I feel like I need to switch. From what I'm reading I can't tell if the newly 110 from Ecosoya will be out anytime soon? Again, I will have to retest ALL of my candles anyway so I'm not sure if I want to give my money to a company that just abruptly changes without another version in place. Partially it's my fault because I ordered so much before christmas but had I not I would have probably been out during the christmas rush. So in a way it's a blessing. Our candle shelves are somewhat stocked but by the time I start testing a new wax and work out any kinks it will be months. For those of you that use the 464... Which which brand do you stick with. We have been using the ECO wicks? Curious what works best for everyone. I had bought a bag of 464 about a year ago that I still have. Might pull it out at the shop tomorrow and see what I can create. At least start with our best sellers and go from there. Steve

Thomas, we are in the same boat. Back before Christmas I bought a truck load of CB Advanced. Went back online tonight to order and just found out. Had I known I would have started the mad hunt for some more to give me time. Now I'm out of wax and not sure where to turn. I also am looking at the 464. Ecosoya is reportedly coming out with a modified version, but to be honest at this point if I have to retest all my wicks I'm not sure if I want to give them any more of my money since the so abruptly pulled the cord on a wax that so many people purchased. At least have your newly modified version in place before you stop the other. I will check back as well on this post to see what others have said. The thought of starting all over just makes me sick. Steve

Hey Candle Makers... Coming to you all for advice. I've been blindsided by the inability to order my candle wax. I attempted to go online and order more wax and find that it's been discontinued. We ordered 15 boxes late last year before the xmas holidays and unfortunately because we were going to place another order and go pick it up to save on shipping I have waited until we are OUT!!!!! Now I find we cannot get it. I don't know what to do. We have been using for the past 3 years Ecosoya CB Advanced. I understand why they are discontinuing it (to a certain degree) but now I don't know how to proceed... All of our testing and candle knowledge I feel is out the door. I want to vomit and cry. My options as I see it are: 1. Wait until they come out with the reformulated Ecosoya (which they say is supposed to be better). But who knows when that will be and are we going to be the guinea pigs on testing a product that may or may not work out only to have to start all over. 2. Switch to a completely different product and also start all over... :(........ I hear a lot of people love the 464. Would this be a good starting point if we switch? I know it's cheaper but i've heard so many horror stores of having to do repours, bad tops, etc. Any other Ecosoya people out there? What are you doing? The thought of going back through threads and rereading on the "BEST" wax and what to start out with just makes me sick. We have over 60 various candle scents between seasonal varieties and I realize what this means. Please someone give me some good news... I just want to make great candles and want a stable product that we can count on for the long haul...

Nice. Will definitely look into this. Not sure if it's feasible for me with my time constraints. But I like thought of better control on wicks.

Moonshine, thsnks for the reply. I have been making and selling candles for over 2 years. This has only been an issue this past two weeks. I test every fragrance we sell. Plus before we started selling I tested various wicks with various waxes. I settled with the cb advanced because it not only holds up for my container candles but works great for my wax melts. I also start and typically use an eco 8 for my 12 oz jars. I get all of my wicks from lone star with the 10mm neck height. The only thing i purchase from bittercreek are their labels. Again. After 2 years of burning, testing and using my candles at home I have never had an issue with a candle burning the table it was sitting on or causing the label to singe.

Has anyone ever attempted to crimp or make their own tabs or does everyone just do the pre assembled. I e always just bought them premade for time but if I could just do them myself and crimp them in the right place it might be worth it.

PhoenixFyre, This is interesting. In my original post I stated the past few weeks I had two people say the candle burned to the bottom causing it to get hot. The first one was a lady that said the bottom wick tab and what was left of the wick came off and layer on its side causing the flame to be right up against the glass. So I'm wondering if this is the same thing that happened to your wicks. If this is the case what can be done to keep the tab from coming unglued. Are there other options to adhere it maybe a higher glue temperature glue gun? Curious if you changed anything.

Thanks everyone for the replies. I am going to power burn a new honeysuckle candle all the way down to the bottom. I will take pics of it when done. Again, I'd like to reiterate I have NEVER had a label singe or burn on me. I am just going by what the customer told me. And that the fact that it burned a mark on her wooden window sill. I use a stock warning label. Forgot where I bought them because I bought so many. But they say: CAUTION: Failure to follow instructions could result in fire hazard, injury, or smoke damage. Keep wax free of matches, wick trimmings, or other flammable materials. Keep wick centered & trimmed to 1/4" to prevent smoking and soot build up on container or other items. Burn only on stable heat resistant surface for not more than 4 hours at a time. Keep out of drafts. Discontinue use when only 1/2" of wax remains in bottom. Do not move candle while burning or if wax is hot. Keep out of reach of children and pets. Never leave a burning candle unattended. Now I know this covers a lot of the things that go wrong, but in the end I don't want to catch someones house on fire or harm someone.

Goldie, I get mine from Cincinnati Container. They're the 12 oz. plain canning jar. The same one everyone else sells. They have them at Candle Science and Filmore Container as well. I have never had a label singe myself. I adhere with just hot glue and a straw. Much quicker for me.

Birdcharm, Yes, those are the exact wicks I buy. I looked at them and all the ones I looked at are crimped dead in the middle of the 100 neck. I would say there is only about 2mm above that crimp. Should they be crimped all the way up to the top of the neck?

I agree completely. That's why this was so confusing. We have only been making and selling candles for almost 3 years. But I've never had any issues with our candles other than the occasional uneven burn. We had one candle that people were telling us would snuff out the wick so we changed wick sizes. But Never any issue with the label in anyway coloring/singeing... Anything. I burn my candles at home all the time (even this scent that the customer had issues with) and never any issues. But again, I typically don't burn my candles down that low. And to be clear, she wasn't upset. She still stated she loved our candles. Just wanted to make sure others didn't have the same issue. I'm going to do some full testing down to the bottom. Is there a way to tell if your jar is too hot? I have never heard anyone ever comment on the jar being too hot. So this aspect is new to me. Steve

Thanks Candybee. Taking one home with me to Powerburn. I definitely always test all of my candles before we produce them... I can assure you that. But I'll be honest I never burn them until they snuff out. I guess I never thought the end of the candle would be a problem. I agree the 10mm should be definitely tall enough to keep them from burning all the way down to the bottom. I do know my candle jars are hot... Is there a way to tell when too hot is too hot? I've never noticed on any of my candle jars where the label has even discolored. We laser print our labels on Kraft Brown paper and never noticed one singe/mark/discoloration to suggest they were getting too hot. What would you consider too hot? I can hold them by the neck either just after extinguishing or even while burning. Not sure if I could clasp my hand around a burn candle and hold it there for a long time. is that a test? When we tested teh next size down ECO6 they weren't big enough to have an adequate burn pool. Do you use the CB Advanced wax? Just curious... Steve

Scratch that... It was an ECO 8 so it was the smaller of the two wicks...

I wonder one thing. The candle scent that she bought was Honeysuckle. We use an ECO10 in that candle. I'm wondering if just the fact that it's a 10 which is big for that size jar. So once the wax is going it's basically just a hot flame burning in a glass jar.

Candybee, Thanks... We buy preassembled ECO wicks from Lonestar. This is what we've always used. I've been diligent to not switch up between supplies because I want all my candles to test and burn the same way. Here is their description: 6" length. Each wick has been primed with a vegetable based wax (161°F) and has been crimped with a 20mm diameter wicktab with a 10mm neck height. I do burn my candles down at home, but typically stop burning them when they get down to the last 3/4"-1/2". I can't say that I burn every scent that we carry down to the very bottom. But I do burn them down. When I test my fragrances I do half a jar starting with the ECO 8. We had issues in the past where we had some fragrances that needed to go up in size to a 10, but those are very few. Most of our fragrances are good at an 8 so that's where I start. I just assume that most people will stop burning a candle down. perhaps she is only burning them down to that 10mm neck height but that makes me fearful because if so then why are my candles causing it to burn the label and burn the wood window sill. The thought of starting over testing new jars or wicks makes me more than want to vomit... I really don't want to head down that road if not necessary.... I'm sure you know what I mean. When I first started making candles I tried ECO/CD/LX/HTP trying to find the perfect wick. The lady at Bittersweet said STOP. you're trying to do too much. So I researched to see which wicks worked well with the Advanced wax and just worked with the ECO. Sometimes they give me fits but for the most part they're great burning wicks.

Hey Gang... We're a soap/bath and body/candle maker/store. I've had (2) separate customers tell me within the past few weeks that they had scary situations that made by butt pucker. I never want anyone to get hurt. I need advice to how i can change things to make them safer. What we currently use: 12 oz. Plain Mason Jar Brown Kraft Paper Label from Bittercreek Ecosoya CB Advanced Wax (from TheCandlemakersStore) ECO-8/10 wicks exclusively depending on fragrance (from Lonestar) The issue is our candles burn ALL the way to the bottom. The VERY bottom. So customers are burning them down even though our warning label (on the bottom as most candle sellers do) says to not burn below 1/2" Just had a customer message me (not upset) but to say that she was burning it and noticed the label was starting to singe and that it created a burn mark on the window sill she had the candle sitting on. So my question is how do I proceed? Should I look into thicker jars? Should I do additional labeling? Me and the customer both agreed that no one reads labels. I know I wouldn't read a candle label as well. Moving it to the cap (which would take away from packaging and aesthetics) won't help. Has anyone else experienced this? I love our current candles as a lot of work/research/testing has gone into where we are. People love them. But I also don't want anyone hurt or any type of liability against our store. I have no issues with reaffirming as we sell that they are not to be burnt to the bottom for risk of fire, but a lot of people buy our candles for gifts. Just want advice on how to proceed. Steve