minx Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I've done my second test burn on my C3, Mimosa & Mandarin candle. The first burn was fine and I was happy with the flame and all, but I'm not sure about the second burn. I did take some pictures and hopefully you can see clearly (iphone isn't the best in my house for candle pics) The last one is the wick after I have ended the flame. Still not a complete MP and am right now burning a second one with a htp 105. Oh, the wick in this one is a htp 126. Also, what is the white stuff that dries on the sides after a burn? It looks like white mould. Is this a good or a bad thing, cause it looks horrid.First photo attempt so sorry if they are too big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Also, what is the white stuff that dries on the sides after a burn? It looks like white mould. Is this a good or a bad thing, cause it looks horrid.I'm assuming you are using a soy wax (not a parasoy). That is frosting. If you search the forums uin the veggie wax forum, you will find a ton of information on "frosting" and how to prevent it. It is worse in some soy waxes than others, but all soy wax is polymorphic and all will frost, more or less, depending on how the wax is handled. Keep burning your test candle. The hangup should catch up by the end. HTH :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChandlerWicks Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I think the pics look good! I'll have to try the Htps too. No redhot little embers at tip of wick while burning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 I was okay with the hangup. Doesn't worry me at all cause of reading the posts have seen that it will go eventually. Does the flame seem a normal height? (If you can tell from the pics)That is weird frosting then. I know with the coloured candles and the frosting that gives, but this is just around the tops of the hangup. The same as someone posted yesterday with their jar pictures( trying to remember which post it was).The wax is Naturewax C3 with no additives except the FO. I guess I am trying to learn the right way it should burn and what a correct wick in a candle should look like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 I think the pics look good! I'll have to try the Htps too. No redhot little embers at tip of wick while burning?Thanks Chandler No embers on the wick burning and no smoke or too much dancing on the flame. I just looked and thought "Hmmmm is that too big?" so thought I would ask the experts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChandlerWicks Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) 3rd burn is usually where mine go wacky if it's not going to work. But that looks like a beautiful flame to me. Is the tin getting too hot? If Htp126 ends up being too big, try Htp1212. The charts list it as a smaller burning wick, even though it has a higher number. Sometimes it's smaller & sometimes it isn't! Edited March 8, 2012 by ChandlerWicks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Nope not getting too hot at all. I actually was able to pick it up off the table and put it onto the folder which is in the pics (hoping it was easier to see with the white paper beneath it).I do have a htp 105 in this tester I have with me at work. Made two tins of each FO. Was intending to power burn this one, but trying the 105 instead. I will keep burning the 126 until the end and see how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 That is weird frosting then. I know with the coloured candles and the frosting that gives, but this is just around the tops of the hangup. The same as someone posted yesterday with their jar pictures( trying to remember which post it was).The wax is Naturewax C3 with no additives except the FO. When hangup is thick or doesn't go away quickly, the wax there is subjected to temperatures and an environment in the range that encourages the undesirable types of crystals to grow. This is a cosmetic issue and does not affect the burn or throw of the candle. If you don't like it, you may be able to discourage it by using some additives to help tame the polymorphism. HTH :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 When hangup is thick or doesn't go away quickly, the wax there is subjected to temperatures and an environment in the range that encourages the undesirable types of crystals to grow. This is a cosmetic issue and does not affect the burn or throw of the candle. If you don't like it, you may be able to discourage it by using some additives to help tame the polymorphism. HTH :-)Would you add USA? I don't like it, but would be able to live with it for sure, but if I give a candle as a gift or sell one I really don't think this is going to endear them to my product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I don't like it, but would be able to live with it for sure, but if I give a candle as a gift or sell one I really don't think this is going to endear them to my product. Do you know what USA is? Why would anyone object to your using it in a soy candle? It's already an ingredient of C3 and GW 464... You could also experiment with veggie oils and see which one helps the texture of your candle - some wax manufacturers use cottonseed oil, some use palm oil, etc. Remember that there is a finite amount of oil any wax will hold (and you want to leave room in the wax for your FO), so start with 1 tsp. and try not to use over 1 Tablespoonful per pound of wax.How's the HT? If it isn't very good, you may need to wick up one size. Sorry I can't help with HTP wicks - I use CDNs & CDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Do you know what USA is? Why would anyone object to your using it in a soy candle? It's already an ingredient of C3 and GW 464... You could also experiment with veggie oils and see which one helps the texture of your candle - some wax manufacturers use cottonseed oil, some use palm oil, etc. Remember that there is a finite amount of oil any wax will hold (and you want to leave room in the wax for your FO), so start with 1 tsp. and try not to use over 1 Tablespoonful per pound of wax.How's the HT? If it isn't very good, you may need to wick up one size. Sorry I can't help with HTP wicks - I use CDNs & CDs.Sorry Stella, I didn't word that last post correctly. Is USA something I should add? Having read you say C3 has it already, then the answer would be no??? CO I could try, would that be an idea??I meant that I didn't like the white dry mould looking bit on the hangup when the candle resolidified, but I could live with it because I know it doesn't so anything. But I don't think friends or potential customers would like it. The HT is soft, as in it isn't constantly filling your nostrils every second, but you get wiffs of it and you can smell it. Gee I hope that makes sense...lol I do have a htp105 testing today and the HT was good I thought. I am testing it in a shop that has the door open all the time and when I go out to the loo and come back in I can smell it. More a soft smell I would say. I can try wicking up and see what happens. Would have to buy some more wicks though. I would have thought it would make the MP quickly for sure, but won't know till I test. I think the hard part with learning all about the candle making and being new is you don't know exactly what you are aiming for. Like, what is a good HT??? Fragrance all the time, always smelling it??Sorry for all the questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spark-me-up Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) I think it looks good & the flame looks proportionate... not too big or small! Also, I think hangup is more of an issue if you are using a clear glass container of some sort. It's just my opinion here, but in a tin, it will always look smart on the outside- hangup or no. As @Stella asked... what's the HT like? If you are happy with it, I don't see any reason to change anything. Experiment by all means (cause you just never know!), but be happy that you've achieved what you have =) Nice! Edited March 8, 2012 by spark-me-up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spark-me-up Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Sorry... missed your last comment, didn't realise we tipped over a page! I think the HT sounds pretty good, from what you have described. there's also a matter of personal taste, so it's down to your customers somewhat. I know people who really DISlike a strong HT, they want to get "whiffs", not be run over by the fragrance! If you have been testing in an area with the door open & you can still catch it, I think you're onto a good thing!!! woot Whenever I have chosen to wick up, I have found the HT to be not half as good. I am using asc wicks, but I did to some testing with htp's & that was what I found. Might be different for you & your wax/ fragrance though.P.S... worth adding that you could try buying a couple of your competitors popular candlles & test burn those too!!! That'll give you a good idea of the ball park you can aim for, if you are unsure. Just an idea. Edited March 8, 2012 by spark-me-up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart70 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Hi Minx,I am not expert, but from my (limited) experience I would not be too unhappy with the hang up. I reckon by the time it gets a few more burns under its belt I would not be surprised if it catches up as Stella mentioned.I am thinking about a run of tests with HTP to see if they help my shroom issues with CDN. I notice you have a small bit of carbon on your wick. Is this indicative of what you have experienced with HTP?I am getting variance with CDN's - if carbon deposits were as small as that on my CDN's using c3 I would be much happier.Bart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Sorry Stella, I didn't word that last post correctly. Is USA something I should add? Having read you say C3 has it already, then the answer would be no??? CO I could try, would that be an idea??Before you think about using additives, first make sure your pouring techniques are sound.When I say that C3 & 464 already contain USA, I mean they contain an ingredient similar to it. USA is distilled monoglycerides and is available via the food industry. Very few suppliers carry it in the US and I have no idea what's available to y'all Down Under. If you find some, BE SURE it is Universal SOY Additive and not Universal Additive for paraffin. Very different products. I personally add additional USA to C3. I use 1 Tablespoonful per pound. I had never found CO to be useful in either mitigating frosting or any other claims for its use. This does not mean that unrefined CO might not work better - my tests were run on Louana 72, a refined, bleach, deodorized CO with a MP of 72°F readily available in grocery stores here.I meant that I didn't like the white dry mould looking bit on the hangup when the candle resolidified, but I could live with it because I know it doesn't so anything. But I don't think friends or potential customers would like it.First, it isn't mold - it is frosting. Read more about soy wax and its polymorphic properties. The crystal formations of soy wax can vary - which ones are present makes a huge difference in the appearance of the wax (ferny frosting, powdery dry white frosting, cauliflower appearance similar to brains, spongy, dull, grainy appearance, smooth and shiny as a baby's butt, etc.). HOW you handle C3 makes all the difference in its appearance. Soy wax is very temperature sensitive. Read up here in the veggie wax forum about how to handle C3 in terms of melting temp, pouring temp, temp to add FO, containers, etc. It all matters and can have a direct bearing on how good (or not-so-good) your product's appearance is. The HT is soft, as in it isn't constantly filling your nostrils every second, but you get wiffs of it and you can smell it. Gee I hope that makes sense...lol Ignoring the possibility of candle nose (a condition where your nose temporarily "ignores" a fragrance because it has been overexposed to it), or that you may be hovering directly over the candle trying to sniff the fragrance, if you walk out of the room for about 10 minutes, then reenter the room, you should be able to smell the candle's fragrance quite easily upon entering the room. You should not have to hover over the candle nor should you have to wave the fumes toward your face to catch a whiff. The candle fragrance should fill the area pleasantly. Understand that when trying to judge HT, the room should not be drafty (ceiling fans, wall air conditioners, central heating/air conditioning vents blowing, etc.) nor should there be any environmental filtration (electrostatic or activated carbon air filters). The air does not have to be absolutely still, but use a reasonable amount of common sense. Please don't expect a tealight to fill an area the size of the lobby of a major hotel! Again - common sense...If you can't be sure your poor nose hasn't become immune to the fragrance (between pouring, waiting for the candle to cure and snuffling it every time you see it, then lighting it...), ask others who enter your home if they can smell the candle. You can also give a tester to a TRUSTED friend or family member who has a reasonable amount of good sense and ask them how it smells at their house...From your description and what I see of the candle, I am leaning toward thinking you may need to wick up. IF that is a 6 oz. deep tin (you didn't mention the inside container dimensions, which matters), and IF you are using 1 oz. FO PP, I use a CDN 10 in those, if that helps.I am getting variance with CDN'sThe CDNs I have bought here in the USA have been very consistent in my candles, but since the OP is from your neck of the woods, my experiences may not apply, so I'm going to bow out of more in-depth wick comments because I know y'all are having local issues with FOs & wicks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Thanks Spark, I think I will go buy some competitors candles and see what they are like. At least then I would know what is around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Hi Minx,I am not expert, but from my (limited) experience I would not be too unhappy with the hang up. I reckon by the time it gets a few more burns under its belt I would not be surprised if it catches up as Stella mentioned.I am thinking about a run of tests with HTP to see if they help my shroom issues with CDN. I notice you have a small bit of carbon on your wick. Is this indicative of what you have experienced with HTP?I am getting variance with CDN's - if carbon deposits were as small as that on my CDN's using c3 I would be much happier.BartI am cool with the hang up, and now just will work on the frosting issue Stella mentioned. Actually I had to think about this so I don't think they are really a huge issue for me (at the moment) I have only really been testing in tins and there has been small carbon deposits, but nothing bad. They get cut off before the next burn anyway.I would try the htp. If anything they are at least something that is easily available here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 I won't add any additives yet until I test my next batch. Poured some other fragrances the day after I poured this one and heated the FO, the pouring jug and let them cool down in the oven over night so I will see how those burns go in terms of the frosting issue before I add anything. I know the health food store is advertising CO, so if I do try and add some I will check them out first. Not sure if we even have USA here. The tin is 8 oz with a 3 inch diameter. With this one I heated till 180 poured into jug on scales addedFO (unwarmed) and stirred and stirred and poured at 160. Left to cool overnight on a metal tray on the dining room table. I did think of trying CDN's but then reading all the posts have decided to try and find something in the htp, that or order from overseas. I'll be doing burn 3 tonight when I get home, so will see what the flame is like with that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 The tin is 8 oz with a 3 inch diameter. I know you don't use them, but if you decide to test CDs & CDNs, try a CDN 12-14 for that tin. HTH & have fun! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 I know you don't use them, but if you decide to test CDs & CDNs, try a CDN 12-14 for that tin. HTH & have fun! :-)I shall do Stella, and thanks for all your input Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spark-me-up Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Swear to God @Stella, you're a walkin' talkin' encyclopedia!!!Thanks for pointing out (about the USA)... "If you find some, BE SURE it is Universal SOY Additive and not Universal Additive for paraffin. Very different products..." Have not tried anything like that (yet?!), but doubt I would have thought to check. So, cheers @minx... Sometimes there are candles that sell really well & have some sort of name for themselves & I have been sorely disappointed in trying them. You might get a nice surprise or two when comparing them to your own. I hope so, anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minx Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share Posted March 9, 2012 @minx... Sometimes there are candles that sell really well & have some sort of name for themselves & I have been sorely disappointed in trying them. You might get a nice surprise or two when comparing them to your own. I hope so, anyway!I did go and buy two. 1 is a tin the same as I make (from same supplier I am thinking, but going to change mine) and was $20. Not sure if that is expensive yet cause I am no where near costing my candles. The other is a small metro jar, but god some of the testers had huge star cracks in them and if they were my products I would be taking them away, testers or not!!I lit the tin last night, Baby Love and the HT was great/good. I liked it and was noticable all the time. However there were sink dents in the wax, and it had a FMP in less than an hour. That isn't good is it?? But then if they throw is there, maybe it is needed? Not 100% sure what wax they used but reckon I can find out. They mention kosher and there was only one company that described their wax that way. It does look nicer than mine when it rehardens. So that is something I will work on. Bought some vegetable oil, which is soybean oil, to try in the formula. Couldn't find cottonseed or palm oil and the baby oil ( mineral oil) had fragrance in it so didn't want to try it. The other I haven't lit yet. I have a feeling they use one of the Ecoya brands. They mention "Australian Certified" but haven't been able to find those exact words.But the finish reminded me of Advanced. I've also decided not to test result at work, better at home then all the testers are the same. But don't feel as downhearted now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spark-me-up Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Yay!!! See? We all have this image in our head about these popular brands & really, some just don't stack up! It's so cool you are doing all this research- good onya, I say I guess if the melt pool, in that "baby love" candle, is so large in such a short time, the candle won't have a huge burn time? Guessing that the wick would have to be quite "powerful", to produce that & therefor consume wax faster?Good luck with the vegie oil. As I said, I haven't tried it... was thinking about coconut oil at some stage, but these things can be hard to source. Please keep me/ us posted on how you go with that. I hope it's one discovery you'e happy to make =)Too Cool!! Edited March 12, 2012 by spark-me-up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart70 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 @minx... Sometimes there are candles that sell really well & have some sort of name for themselves & I have been sorely disappointed in trying them. You might get a nice surprise or two when comparing them to your own. I hope so, anyway!Yes....I can vouch that some of the well known big name brands that are being distributed via the annual Trade Fairs and purchased by gift store owners are very poor performers. I also find their truth in marketing and to be extremely dishonest. Some of their claims about company backgrounds/ownership, the way their candles are made, and what they contain are nothing short of fantasia.Bart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spark-me-up Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) This is true too @bart. I think a lot of success is due simply to the size of certain companies advertising budgets!It really is a shame =( Edited March 13, 2012 by spark-me-up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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