Clamshell Testing with PB and XceL

[Paul]

Ok, so I received my soy order Friday from Lonestar, cheap and fast, you have to love those guys.(Peak also

Saturday morning I started testing PB and XceL combinations in clamshells, mixing up tiny 3oz combinations in 10% increments; no FO or Dye. The purpose on this test is to find a combination that will melt well and pop out of the warmer with ease when cool.

Heated to 170° and poured into clamshells at 150°. The appearance on all of them except the 100% XceL are very nice – some strange waves and a little cracking on the 100% XceL (I think I poured to hot)

After cooling for 6 hours, all of them, except for the 100% XceL, popped right out of the clamshell with ease.

I started with one ½ oz. 50/50 cube in a 10w warmer. It melted nicely, but would not come out of the warmer at room temperature. I put the warmer in the freezer for 5 min. and the melt came out with a quite a bit of effort.

The 60/40 cube (PB/XceL) also melted nicely and did come out of the warmer when put in the fridge with a very hard push.

70/30 (PB/XceL) melted very nicely in the 10w warmer. Came out a little easier, but not what I would like.

80/20 and 90/10 – I’m not seeing any difference in the way they pop out of the warmer in comparison to the 70/30.

I’m going to warm and cool test a little more today, but I think I will start FO testing the 70/30 mix this week and see how I like that.

And the testing continues...

Edited February 19, 2012 by Paul

[zeoplum]

Hi Paul, I just came across this thread and wanted to thank you for sharing your test results. I just bought the same wax and began testing yesterday. But I was going in the opposite direction with my proportions. I eventually want to do clamshells but right now I'm testing in a silicone mold that has 12 heart-shaped cavities. I got it from WSP. My first batch was 60% XceL and 40% PB and despite having to finagle them out of the mold, they came out with crisp clean lines....nothing stuck or broke. But it was so much harder than the Scentsy wax (which I understand is mostly or all paraffin) so I decided to whip up a second batch and this time I did 70% XceL and 30% PB and I'm waiting to see how those will come out. I'm mostly concerned with making sure it has great HT but also that my Scentsy burner can melt it all the way. So your notes are inspiring me!

Out of curiosity, which ratio did you end up most happy with?

Edited May 6, 2012 by zeoplum

[Holly]

I prefer wax to easily pop out as well. Although, I am in the process of making a combination where it will pop out after putting it in the freezer but also one that the melt point is not so high to where they do not melt well in lightbulb warmers, especially the ones that have a square dish with corners. A lot of people have Scentsy warmers or ones that are similar. I find that the wax that is not as hard and the melt point is not as high melts much better and faster in the lighbulb warmers than the harder wax does. I have one lightbulb warmer that is square and the KY tart wax has a lot of touble melting all the way in the corners of it and it melts much slower than the lower meltpoint wax. I personally like the scent throw better with the electric plate warmers with a matching dish on top. It is hotter than the lightbulb warmers. The fragrance may dissipate a little faster, but I prefer the stronger throw in larger areas. The lightbulb warmers for me do better in smaller areas.

I thought I would let you know my thoughts on this since you appear to be focusing on how well/quickly the wax pops out and may not have noticed that the harder wax melts slower in the lightbulb warmers and with square dishes the corners barely melt. I may end up offering both a high melt point wax melt and a low melt point wax melt. This may end up being a pain, so I may decide to only offer the softer blend. Right now I am finding 85/15 (low melt point wax/high melt point wax) is working pretty well. I am still testing to determine. It depends on each wax that is being used. I am trying to determine the scent throw of the blend vs. my straight KY tart wax as well as how well it melts in the lightbulb warmers that are large and square. There are a lot of these shaped warmers out there.

Edited May 6, 2012 by Holly

[zeoplum]

Hi Holly, thank you for that feedback. I had not thought about the issues of square warmers so I'm glad you brought that up. I will be sure to find a tester who owns one in that shape.

I had a feeling that the harder wax would increase the melt time so that was why I tested my 2nd batch with a lower percent of hard wax. But they didn't come out as easily. The corners broke off. So it looks like I will go back to the 60% XceL (which is a soft container wax) and 40% PB (hard pillar wax) since the 70/30 split was too soft. The XceL holds more scent so I'm happy that I can use 60% in my recipe. I still need to test with my clamshells but I can't imagine them being any more difficult than the silicone mold I've been testing in. The cavities are almost 1 inch deep and this isn't a mold where you can pull the sides away from the content. Both of these waxes have a melt point of 125-128. Is that what you call low or is your low MP wax even lower?

In addition to HT, my biggest focus is finding a formula that will melt all the way with a lightbulb warmer.....all while still using soy. If it can't do that, then I don't suspect my Scentsy folks will want it.

[zeoplum]

P.S. Here are pics of the new batch. First one shows the top side. Second one shows the bottom where they were chipped from removal.

[Holly]

You are welcome. You probably did this, but did you used a mold release? Since you are using molds it definitely makes it much harder to use a softer formula. If all else fails, people will have to understand that special shaped tarts that are made with molds have to have a higher melt point wax/harder wax and they are best used in electric plate warmers. I will be making some special mold melts as well for limited additions (holidays), and I will be indicating for that product that it is best used with electric plate warmers (preferably 24 watts) or possibly a lightbulb warmer with a round smaller dish.

The melt point you indicated is pretty low, especially for a pillar blend. I believe I have noticed that even if a tart/pillar wax does not have a real high melt point and is not much higher than a softer wax, it still seems to have more trouble melting in corners. Not sure why. It could be just that slight difference in the melt point.

Good luck!

Edited May 6, 2012 by Holly

[Holly]

How does the PB wax come out of the molds when it is straight pillar wax...no other wax used? If I remember correctly some pillar blends do not come out of molds as well as others...and I think they were soy pillar blends.....some just seemed more brittle. Mold release definitely does help but you may already use that.

[zeoplum]

No, I don't know anything about mold release. I'm new at this.

I haven't tried straight pillar wax. I haven't figured out what attribute is added to the tart by going with a lot of pillar wax. But since I'm new, I'm only putting bits and pieces together based on what I've read here on the forums. I thought the goal when formulating a tart wax recipe is to use a wax that is soft enough to hold a good scent load but hard enough to not have any trouble unmolding. So with that mindset, I was trying to find a recipe that would use as little pillar wax as possible. And since the 60% soft 40% hard came out of the mold with no chipping, I thought I would start there to test my FO's.

Is there an advantage to using a higher percentage of pillar wax in tarts? Is my thinking off track and making me go in the wrong direction?

This is fun, by the way! :smiley2:

Edited May 6, 2012 by zeoplum

[Holly]

No, I don't know anything about mold release. I'm new at this.

I haven't tried straight pillar wax. I haven't figured out what attribute is added to the tart by going with a lot of pillar wax. But since I'm new, I'm only putting bits and pieces together based on what I've read here on the forums. I thought the goal when formulating a tart wax recipe is to use a wax that is soft enough to hold a good scent load but hard enough to not have any trouble unmolding. So with that mindset, I was trying to find a recipe that would use as little pillar wax as possible. And since the 60% soft 40% hard came out of the mold with no chipping, I thought I would start there to test my FO's.

Is there an advantage to using a higher percentage of pillar wax in tarts? Is my thinking off track and making me go in the wrong direction?

This is fun, by the way! :smiley2:

You could try a mold release spray if you like the scent throw and melting rate and completness of the combination that chipped a little. I have not used Excel. What pillar/votive wax are you using?

Ecosoya Pillar Blend? If so, I have tried that one before and noticed it was a lot more brittle than others I have tried....if I remember correctly. I am pretty sure that was the PB wax in my testing days before that I had the most trouble with in the chipping department. I really like a lot of the Calwax products. I am sure you will get it right. Do you need suppliers close to the west coast or east coast or are you in the middle?

Edited May 6, 2012 by Holly

[Holly]

P.S. There really is no advantage of a higher melt point pillar wax for tarts. They should all release from molds if they are for mold release applications. I really think that a lower melt point PB/Votive/Tart wax is better for tarts than a higher melt point wax, as long as it releases well. Hope this helps. :smiley2:

Edited May 6, 2012 by Holly

[Holly]

P.S. Zeoplum, when I look at those pictures it looks like what I remember the Ecosoya looked when chipped....kind of a smooth chipped look, if that makes any sense. Love the hearts and that pink color!

Edited May 6, 2012 by Holly

[zeoplum]

Thanks Holly! Here is the picture of the first batch where I used 60% hard 40 % soft....

I am using the same wax as the OP (which is why I dug up this old thread). Ecosoya CB XceL and Ecosoya PB. Both he and another forum member use these and both state they use higher percentages of the PB wax so that was why I was asking. The melt point on the pillar blend is only 128* and the XceL is 125*.

I think I will stick with the 60/40 recipe for now and see how it tests. If I decide I want more HT, I may switch back to the 70/30 recipe and look at the mold release options. Are there any negatives with adding that? I'd want to know that first.

As for suppliers, I am using CandleScience for now. I'm open to using Peak as well. Since I make cold process soap, I want to stick with a supplier that carries FOs that also do well in CP soap and those two seem to be the best. If I ever need to just order replacement wax, I will shop around to see if I can find someone closer.

Thank you, again, for helping me!

zeo

[Holly]

Those look really good...looks like they released very well. If one is blending a soft container wax with a hard wax (Pillar/Votive wax) and they want a really good release, I can see why they would want a higher percent of the hard wax. Even though the PB is only 3 degrees off on meltpoint, since it is a mold release wax, the amount used in the blend can make a big difference in release in the mold and the warmer dish, which I know you have already learned. KY tart wax does well with molds as long as they are shallow. If they are not shallow, it gets dimples on top unless one blends another wax with it. So, depending on the molds in the future that I will be using, I may have to once again fiddle around with a blend. I tend to find that when I blend another wax with the original wax that has a good scent throw, it seems to decrease the scent throw some....for me anyway.

Regarding negatives with the mold release, I did not use it long enough to know for sure. I was worried that it could leave a smell or residue, but from what I remember, I did not seem to notice that it did. I know many use it for pillars and votives. I can't even remember when I had to try it. It may have been when I was testing different blends for a chocolate candle line I had. I was making melts in candy molds. Not long after this, I closed up shop for two years. I just reopened. I am only doing Wax Melts, Aroma Oils and Room Sprays for now. I am going to develop a new wicked candle line and going to keep it simple for now and take it one day at a time. The candles I had were very expensive to make and very time-consuming. I could not pump them out fast enough and it was way too much work for the lack of profit. They looked nice and fit the name and image of my company, but I am sure I can come up with something else just as nice that fits well enough.

Keep up the good work and keep us posted and the pictures coming!

~Holly

Edited May 6, 2012 by Holly

[Holly]

P.S. To me the yellow batch with a lower percentage of the PB looks like they came out better than the pink batch, for sure. The pink batch had a higher percent of the PB, right? I am thinking since you are using the Ecosoya PB, and even though more PB should release better, again from my memory, Ecosoy PB was pretty brittle to me. The extra bit of softer wax you used in the yellow batch must have helped with that.

[zeoplum]

Thank you for the info on the mold release. As for your last post, it was the opposite. The yellow batch was 60% XceL (soft) and 40% PB (hard). (I just typed it backwards and corrected myself so it's possible I've gotten it backwards in other posts). Then I tested 70% XceL (the soft) and 30% PB (hard) when I did the pink. So I think it was too soft.

Edited May 6, 2012 by zeoplum

[Holly]

Thank you for the info on the mold release. As for your last post, it was the opposite. The yellow batch was 60% XceL (soft) and 40% PB (hard). (I just typed it backwards and corrected myself so it's possible I've gotten it backwards in other posts). Then I tested 70% XceL (the soft) and 30% PB (hard) when I did the pink. So I think it was too soft.

Oh, ok. Then it looks like it definitely is better to have more of the PB which is normal for better mold release. The yellow ones look very good!

P.S. If the combination that has more of the soft wax in it gives a better scent throw, then you could always try the mold release and see if that helps. Not sure how it will work....depends on how soft it is.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Holly

[zeoplum]

Another note (for anyone who comes along in the future and is researching the same thing), the 70/30 blend is showing slight smudging in my ziploc bag whereas the 60/40 blend is not. That's important to me because I really like these heart shaped tarts and the size is perfect. They're measuring about .75 oz which is just a little bigger than 2 Scentsy cubes. So if and when I start selling, I'd like to put them in a small individual zip bag and sell to those who don't want to commit to a clamshell.

And if anyone is interested, I purchased the mold for the heart shapes at WSP. It has 12 cavities and it's called "Crafter's Choice Heart - Guest - Glossy Mold 1612". Their website info says each bar will weight 1.25 oz but I guess it depends on what you pour inside.