bart70 Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 Hi,I am having an issue getting tall square pillars to mold properly - about 50% will come out with one side 'sucked' in (ie - not square, as if it has been internally sucked in).Initially we firgured thought it was a heat issue with a couple of batches coming out fine when the molds were preheated from warm to very hot. Unfortunatley it has since returned.Pouring is being done at 95 degrees C (which is what we have determined works best for all our other molds).The tall molds are 3inch wide by 6 and a half inches high. I do not see this problem in any significant manner in my small square candles (same width, half the height)Any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribalvixen Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 Hi are you adding anything to them? I only add colour and FO to mine. I have had no problems with square pillars with feather they come out perfect. I never preheat my mold because I figure by the time my wax hits it its hot in about 10 seconds...seems kinda pointless to me. I usually pour between 85 and 90C. Maybe try the elimation thing. Might help pin down where its going wrong.Tammy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 I haven't done tall square feather pillars. Unless someone else has run into this, you'll have to experiment with pouring temperature and cooling rate until you find a way to eliminate or minimize the problem.Feather palm pillars have an interesting way of contracting as they cool that seems to account for the fact that they have so few air pockets. Your report about the square molds doesn't altogether surprise me, because even round feather pillars come out a little wonky if you look closely--the sides tend to be subtly bowed in. In other words, the diameter at the midpoint of the candle is slightly less than at the ends. I imagine that if the center of the candle didn't contract this way, more air would get pulled in the top. However, this distortion can apparently become objectionable with certain mold shapes.There are many ways to pour and cool the candles, so I imagine there's a solution. If you're pouring on the hot side, try it on the cool side (or vice versa). If the candles are cooling covered, try them uncovered. If they're cooling in the open, try screening them from drafts for even cooling or try covering for slow cooling. Just try variations.If absolutely nothing else works, you could consider mixing some proportion of starburst palm into the feather for square molds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart70 Posted June 10, 2010 Author Share Posted June 10, 2010 Hi are you adding anything to them? I only add colour and FO to mine. I have had no problems with square pillars with feather they come out perfect. I never preheat my mold because I figure by the time my wax hits it its hot in about 10 seconds...seems kinda pointless to me. I usually pour between 85 and 90C. Maybe try the elimation thing. Might help pin down where its going wrong.TammyThanks for your reply Tammy,I am mixing nothing with my palm other than FO & dye. I tried using cold molds but experienced problems with the lower quarter of the candle not 'feathering' and coming out plain white. In my limited experience I put this down to the mold being too cold and dropping the temp of the wax on the mold surface enough to stop it feathering. It actually produced a funky looking candle if it could be controlled.....The problem also appears if I pour at a temp of 90 degrees or lower. One thing I have also noticed is that if I do not preheat the molds I get a pattern that is very similar to Starburst, when I preheat I get a beautiful feather pattern. I much prefer the feather so have stuck with preheating. If I could get the great pattern without the preheat I wold be very happy!Topofmurrayhill - Thanks for your comments. It has me a little confused as I can pour 6 molds and get 3 of them come out with the side sucked in - no real pattern to it. I have a theory after pouring again tonigh which I will experiment with over the next couple of days.We are unable to buy Starburst here in Australia so am unable to mix a little with it to see. Would give it a go if I could though!Thanks again,Bart70 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribalvixen Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 (edited) ACS has crystal palm you could maybe try that instead of starburst...just a thought. I havnt played with crystal yet. Where abouts in Aus are you? Is it the first 3 or the last 3 or is it random..was just thinking if it was either first or last it might be pour temp Tammy Edited June 10, 2010 by Tribalvixen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart70 Posted June 10, 2010 Author Share Posted June 10, 2010 Hi again,We are in Port Macquarie,We were thinking of experimenting with some Crystal Palm anyway - might have to give that a try if I cannot pin down the problem.There is no pattern to the ones that come out like it - no link to first or last poured. One thing we did notice this evening is that the ones that come out good have a very distorted top (bottom of candle, top as poured) compared with those that are sucked in.My latest new theory (yet to be proven) is that the wax obviously contracts as it cools. It needs to 'deform' someplace, or let air in, to eliminate vacuum created as the candle cools and sets. The candles with good sides have heavily deformed tops which is making me think that the tops are soft enough to suck down and eliminate the vacuum. In the ones that the tops are relatively good, the vacuum is sucking in the sides as it is possible softer than the tops.My next pour I am going to break open the tops to create a 'soft' spot to suck in from before it pulls in the sides.Might be way off the mark...but worth a try.Also having some wicking challenges - but that is another story....LOLBart70 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribalvixen Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 Wow your not far from me I did do relief work on my square pillars so maybe that could be it. Try a cdn 14 I have found that works on mine and I dont use wick pins i wick the mold. Since we cant get the csn wicks here I kinda stick to cdn...or acs wicks but im still trying to work out if i like acs as they seem to soot for me. I have only been making candles since aug 09 so my experience is limited. Im just trying to help. It could be the weather since its freezing atm. Have you tried putting a box over them maybe they are cooling to fast. just a thought. I hope your next ones work out for youTammy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart70 Posted June 10, 2010 Author Share Posted June 10, 2010 Thanks Tammy,Yeah...not that far away at all. I bet it is a bit cool in your area this evening. I hear it will be this way all weekend....BrrrrrrrrThe CSN wicks sound like the go, but as you say they are not available in Aus. I am test burning CDN's at the moment in both my 76cm rounds (tall & short) and my 76mm squares (tall & short). The only thing consistent about the results is that they are proving to be as inconsistent as those overseas have found them to be! I have some ACS wicks on their way to try....am holding out a little hope there.I am leaning towards the CDN18 for the squares (pending further test burning on the talls), with the jury still out on the rounds - I have not been able to get a consistent enough burn to sway me to a particular size. I am guessing it may end up being a CDN16 but will wait and see.Mind you, I will probably change my mind with the next test burn!! This is all very much a learning curve for me also!Will let you know what I work out with the side deformation problem. :smiley2:Bart70 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snewbie Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 Bart, I think you are right in poking a hole in the top to let the air suck in and prevent the sides from sucking in. Youll probably need to do a careful second pour, and, after it cools, level it on a hot plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart70 Posted June 13, 2010 Author Share Posted June 13, 2010 Yep......That was it!Got it sorted now. Have not had a side suck in since I started poking a hole in the top of them about 40mins after pouring. Don't need to do this with the smaller candles but clearly the surface area of the top and the extra wax mass shrinking it needs a little assistance.I actually do my second pour outside the mould - hard to exlain but I wick the candle with the wick 10mm from the bottom and pour into the 'concave' bottom. Once set I then hotplate for a smooth finish.Now this one is sorted....it is back to wicking....Thanks everyone.Bart70 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardLOZ Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 We are unable to buy Starburst here in Australia so am unable to mix a little with it to see. Would give it a go if I could though!Thanks again,Bart70Hey BartThe crystal palm from ACS is basically starburst and is quite a nice wax to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart70 Posted June 15, 2010 Author Share Posted June 15, 2010 (edited) Thanks Richard,That is great to know - I have only seen pics of the Crystal wax on their website and was going to order some at some stage. Was not sure from the pic if it came out like Starburst or not. Have you used it? What were your thoughts on it?Bart70 Edited June 15, 2010 by bart70 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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