help pillar Candles

[lrbd]

After the holidays or in my free time:laugh2::laugh2:

I was thinking I would like to try my hand at some pillar candles. Time to move on. Any way, all I know is GB 415. I know that I can't use that because of how soft it is. That being said I would love to stay as close to all soy as possible. Can anyone direct me to a good thread where I can learn more about the wax combos for pillars.

Thank you

Laura:smiley2:

[Stella1952]

Try EcoSoya PB for soy or take a walk on the wild side and try some palm wax pillars. I think palm wax is easier to work with than soy for most applications.

Edited October 12, 2009 by Stella1952

[lrbd]

Would that be this:

http://newcart.candlesandsupplies.com/Store/Products/Candles/PID-WAX-FP.aspx

or this

http://newcart.candlesandsupplies.com/Store/Products/Candles/PID-WAX-CP.aspx

Thanks Stella

[Stella1952]

Yes, those are both pillar palm waxes, although I was a little surprised to see a container in one of the illustration photos! Pillar wax isn't a real good choice for containers because it'll either fall out of the container or rattle around like the rocks in my head!

[lrbd]

would you recommend either of these or do you prefer somthing else? You see I didn't know that about palm. I was looking on line for a tutorial but haven't found any. I know I have to try but I know nothing about it. Thanks for sharing that falling out of a container thing . That could be bad, wouldn't you say

Thaks Laura

Edited October 12, 2009 by lrbd

[Stella1952]

Most palm wax is imported, to my knowledge, so I don't think it matters a whole lot about the source. Either type is fine - just depends on whether you want a starburst type crystal or feathering type.

When you order, get some palm stearic acid and use 1 tablespoonful/PP (can use more if desired) to aid in mold release.

Put it all in the melting pot and heat to 200F-205°F. Add to a pour pot with prewarmed FO (1 oz./PP) & dye and stir well for a couple of minutes to be sure everything mixes well. Put a thermometer in the pour pot and make sure you pour no cooler than 190°F, preferably into warmed molds. When I say "warm" I mean warm to the touch, but certainly not too hot to touch comfortably. Cover the molds with a cardboard box or wrap them in a towel, etc. and throw something over the top so they will cool very slowly. You can cool them in a prewarmed oven (200°F - turn off when the candles go in) if it's cold in your house or easier for you.

When the top (actually the candle bottoms if using most aluminum pillar molds) gets a 1/4-1/2" layer of cooled wax on it, start doing the relief "wrecking" (to prevent formation of caverns near the wick) as described in other threads.

When the candle is completely cool, slip it out of the mold (should come out easily), wick (if you have used wickpins), then level the bottom on a warm surface (Presto, electric fry pan, griddle, etc.).

If you have poured hot enough and kept the candles warm so they cool slowly, you should have a nice crystal pattern. If you pour too cool or the candle cools too quickly or unevenly, there will not be a nice crystal pattern. This does not affect the burn characteristic of the candle - just doesn't look as nice. HTH

[lrbd]

HTH :smiley2:

Tremendously !!!!

I didn't know the first thing about it. I was off from work today and spent the entire day search for tutorials . I haven't found any:mad:. I don't even know how to wick a pillar:embarasse nor do I know how to use a wick pin .

It's funny though you should see some of the candles maing videos I have seen today. One didn't even attach the wick to a container candle . They put it in the hot wax after pouring.Just layed it in there:laugh2:. Another was pouring in FO in boiling wax no measuring or worrying about temp.

I have copied and pasted your response to a doc to refer back to . Still searching for the rest. I think I will get a kit to start off.

Thanks again you gotta see some of these videos though .... very funny

Laura

[lrbd]

Check this one out

[radellaf]

That video is a trip; and, possibly a lesson to those of us who get too worried about doing everything perfectly :embarasse . I'll assume her candles burn well enough.

Advice and a question.

For palm pillars, I use CS's feather palm and their CSN 9 wick for 1.5"-2" pillars. CSN 12 for 2.5". If it's a little too small you can get a very pretty "framework" of wax around the edge. This happens for me with 2.25" CSN9 and 1.5" CSN5. Smaller, and I've had leaking out the side. These are medium dye and 5% FO. They slide right out of the mold. If I was going to sell candles, it'd probably be these.

I'm trying to make good rustic 1343s, but I get sweating even with 2% FO and inconsistent flame height (2", LX14,16,18 20 works but a huge flame). I have some Vybar 343 on the way we'll see if it helps. 4045H doesn't mottle enough for my taste, though perhaps it would with a hotter pour and slower cool, IDK.

For soy pillars I've tried CW's "Smooth Pillar Blend", which looks the same, though I'm not sure, as EcoSoya's PB. (Can anyone confirm?)

I'm thoroughly disgusted with it. All the pillars are so soft they mar when you handle them, they stick to the wick pins, and worst, they always pour out the side (maybe there's a wick that wouldn't but I've tried a few). Unlike other waxes, once it starts to pour out it will continue as long as it can. Paraffin and beeswax usually pour out the amount of the melt pool and then stop.

It's OK for votives as long as you put mold release on the wick pin. The wax is too soft to take much force removing the pin without ruining the candle. I've used LX-14 for those votives. Very good scent throw cold and hot.

IMHO it's really a container wax. I'll be trying it for that next, but I don't really like container candles. Too heavy and delicate.

[lrbd]

:laugh2:

For palm pillars, I use CS's feather palm and their CSN 9 wick for 1.5"-2" pillars. CSN 12 for 2.5". If it's a little too small you can get a very pretty "framework" of wax around the edge. This happens for me with 2.25" CSN9 and 1.5" CSN5. Smaller, and I've had leaking out the side. These are medium dye and 5% FO. They slide right out of the mold. If I was going to sell candles, it'd probably be these. 

:laugh2:

I mean I literally do not know how to wick a pillar. Like what’s the wick pin for? Can you use tabbed wick?That’s why I am looking for a tutorial. Just to get started. :embarasse

[Stella1952]

There are three ways to wick a pillar:

1. Drill a hole through the solid candle and thread a wick through it. One can either use a wick assembly or rolled wicking.

2. Wick the mold, threading the wicking through the hole in the bottom of the mold and securing on top with a popcicle stick or other device to hold the wick taut. The wax is then poured in the mold. When the candle has cooled, it's removed from the mold and the wicking trimmed top & bottom. A wick assembly doesn't work for this method.

3. A wick pin is either placed inside the mold or passed through from the hole in the bottom of the mold. The candle is poured & cooled. When the candle is demolded, the wick pin is removed, leaving a centered hole in the candle. One can then thread a wick through the hole in the candle, using either rolled wicking or a wick assembly.

I prefer method #3 for pillars & votives. For other molded candles, I use method #2.

For basic information like this, if you look on the upper left side of the page here at CT, you will see a block that is titled "Candletech Links." From there, you can click on "General Instructions" for demonstrations of one or more methods of making votive, container, and pillar candles. Lots of great ideas and techniques right at your fingertips.

Edited October 14, 2009 by Stella1952

[lrbd]

I am trying one.... just because i have to. I am one sick pup:p. It took me 5 trys before the wax didn't pour out the bottom. I am so excited . Now I am reading on wrecking . Wish you were here. Actually I wish a bunch of you were here. I could get the blender going:soap baby dance: make some snacks and we could all watch this freaking thing cool .

Edited October 19, 2009 by lrbd

[lrbd]

Ok I did it. It was fun . Had to take a photo cause it is my first ever...... Anyway I did that wrecking thing and re-poured and you can see where I did that clearly:mad:. How come? And when can I try it ?

Edited October 20, 2009 by lrbd

[Stella1952]

I am one sick pup:p. It took me 5 trys before the wax didn't pour out the bottom...I wish a bunch of you were here. I could get the blender going make some snacks and we could all watch this freaking thing cool.

:laugh2::laugh2:She's hooked, folks! No 12 Step program can reach her now! Muahahahaha!!!!! :laugh2:

Mold putty and/or the silvered ducting tape (not common grey DUCT tape, the kind that is actually bright, shiny metallic) helps with the leakage. Leakage that occurs after the candle has been setting up is evil - can make a hollow place inside the candle - kind of a dented skull look... *faint* Don't ask me how I know this... :whistle:

If you "wreck" correctly, there is no need to repour - only have to level the candle. If you DO repour, never, never let the repour touch the sides of the pillar mold 'cause it will run down in the space between the candle and the mold, as you discovered. If the mold was filled all the way to the top, the "wrecking" should leave a depression in the center, which is easy to level and finish or to contain a small repour.

I darkened the "wrecking" area in the photo below to illustrate how close to the edge one should come when "wrecking" - notice that the middle is contracted slightly from the edge, forming a shallow bowl...

Easiest way to level (if the candle is REAL unlevel; otherwise use heat) is to ease the pillar out of the mold a little and slice off the excess using the top of the mold as a guide. Then wick & (while holding the wick from the top of the candle) run/spin the bottom of the pillar over a warm surface to smooth/finish the wax surface and set the wick into the candle. Can use the Presto pot, electric fry pan, griddle, etc. Move quickly and don't let the pillar start actually like melting. Keep it moving! Watch out for tiny drips when you remove it. Don't turn it upside down! Set it on a cold, flat surface after finishing the bottom. This squishes out any troublesome drips while still molten.

Should end up looking something like this:

You got a real nice fat crystal pattern on that pillar! Good job!!

when can I try it

I wait about a week (5-7 days) before burning my palm pillars for 2 reasons: to let the FO have plenty of time to cure and to allow the new crystals to harden. They are actually quite soft & delicate the first few days... Because palm wax is so brittle, handle very carefully & pay attention to avoid dinging up the edges. It doesn't dent like paraffin or soy - it crumbles, crushes & "chunks." After I remove mine from the mold, I usually just set them aside and wait to handle, wick & level them for several days. After 5-7 days, you can buff any non-crystal areas to a high gloss (tee shirt works well) if it blows yer skirt. If the crystals are crushed, however, they powder and stop sparkling.

Glad you're having fun!!

[lrbd]

If you "wreck" correctly, there is no need to repour

Howd ya do dat I just poled holes like in the basic directions you directed me to . I like your way tell me more please.....................I'm a sponge .

You got a real nice fat crystal pattern on that pillar! Good job!!

Thanks but i don't know what I di to get that nice fat crystal pattern:laugh2:

My family was so cute and proud of me . I wouldn't dare show them how they are really supposed to look:lipsrseal

I wait about a week (5-7 days)

:shocked2:That's not gonna be easy friend Edited October 20, 2009 by lrbd

[Stella1952]

I just poked holes like in the basic directions you directed me to

I don't poke holes - When the top is about 1/4" thick, I take a thin bladed knife & cut a circle (the dark area in the photo), then around the wickpin, then carefully sink/poke the hardened wax deep into the liquid interior of the candle. Any caverns forming are disturbed and any air bubbles are allowed to escape. This is "wrecking." Keep doing this at intervals, cutting a little more to the middle each time (as the walls of the pillar become thicker) until ya can't do it no mo' without making a big mess. The 3" Octogon in the photo was "wrecked" to relieve air bubbles about 4 times, to give ya an idea... Just depends on how fast the pillar cools, how big it is, etc.

Thanks but i don't know what I di to get that nice fat crystal pattern

Your poured hot enough and cooled slowly enough.

That's not gonna be easy friend

Hide them. It's the only way to keep your mitts off them.

Good luck.

Edited October 20, 2009 by Stella1952

[lrbd]

I don't poke holes

i know that now. What I was referring to was the other day you directed me to the basic direction on the upper left hand of the web page. I followed peaks directions. But I will try yours . i like it much better. I think I understand. Edited October 20, 2009 by lrbd

[radellaf]

With 2"x6" and 2.5"x5" feather palm pillars I haven't needed to wreck them at all. There's usually a small air pocket right near the top which I could use a blowtorch to fill in, or, usually I just leave it alone.

I'm going to have to try that cutting a circle technique though. What kind of knife would you use? I may try it the first time using a wick pin, heating it so it'll melt through.

Any wicking recommendations? I think CSN 14 is going to work on the 2", but no idea on the 2.5, much less a 3. Or, is it just _going_ to leak out the sides if burned too long, no matter what?

[Carriegsxr6]

Check this one out

that video should be pulled from youtube.

Here is one for how to make soy pillar candles.

Look, CandleScience has a video too.

Edited October 21, 2009 by Carriegsxr6

[Stella1952]

I haven't needed to wreck them at all. There's usually a small air pocket right near the top which I could use a blowtorch to fill in, or, usually I just leave it alone.

Glad you are not having problems. I even wreck votives because they DO have air pockets which can severely affect the burn... I take no chances.

What kind of knife would you use? I may try it the first time using a wick pin, heating it so it'll melt through.

From my post above...

I take a thin bladed knife...

A heated wickpin will simply poke holes. When you repour to fill the holes the wax will solidify before it reaches the bottom of the holes. But try whatever and discover what works for you.

Different waxes present different challenges. No ONE set of instructions will EVER be sufficient! The idea is to have a BIG bag of tricks so that if one idea doesn't work, you have others to try. Many instructions are based on the use of paraffin - palm and soy wax are different - both from paraffin AND from one another.

Any wicking recommendations? I think CSN 14 is going to work on the 2", but no idea on the 2.5, much less a 3. Or, is it just _going_ to leak out the sides if burned too long, no matter what?

I use CDNs. An 8-10 works well for me with little pillars. If you wick well, it won't blow out, especially if you remember to keep the wick centered and turn the candle as it burns; but trying to force a wax that naturally tunnels to completely consume without blowouts is a mighty precise act... Good luck!