A bad batch of C-3?

[WillowBoo]

I think I got a bad batch of C3. I mix it with 4627 with both USA & CO and usually it turns out really nice - no frosting and no wet spots. Well, the candles looked horrible!!!!! Frosting, wet spots, and cracking galore!!! So, I melted the same C3 with some USA by itself and instead of the cooled mixture being mostly creamy, it was a powdery chunky mess. Would you say the C-3 was old? I could have sworn a moth flew out of the bag as well when I opened it and I did find what looked like some wood slivers in the melted mixture as well. I just bought this stuff!

[Stella1952]

Before we start down the road of a bad batch we need more info. What temp did you melt/pour? How much USA did you add?

C3 has some temperamental characteristics... it's usually pretty bulletproof, but...

Edited September 12, 2009 by Stella1952

[WillowBoo]

I use a little less than 1T per pound of USA. Mix everything together and heat up to where everything is liquid, cool it down a bit, heat it up again to around 210 - pour it into the pour container, then add fragrance, stir for around 2 minutes and pour into the jars. I don't think you have to do that with the mixture I have, but I do because the candle seems to burn better when I do this. THe CT and the HT are amazing and the tops are fine. Initially, I thought my DH (by the way...does the D stand for dear or dumb?) caused the problems by turning the air conditioner on while they were cooling. But, it wasn't that - they had cooled down enough and they were well covered. And, the next batch did the same thing when the room was very warm.

I made another small batch of 3 candles with half the CO I normally use -yesterday. Thought I'd see if too much of a good thing was causing the problem, and those candles were even more ridiculous. Tons of cracking all through the candle. THe heat gun only helped until the candle cooled down again. I did notice a lot of bubbles surfacing with the heat gun. I never had bubbles before and don't know if this is usual when reheating the sides of the container. ( I never had to do this before!)

I mix 60/40 C3 to 4627 and I shouldn't have these issues, especially the cracking and frosting. The wet spots - well it is a bit cooler these days and the temp fluctuates so much - that's to be expected somewhat.

Does C3 tend to dry out when it is either stored incorrectly or is old? I just bought it 2 weeks ago and didn't open it up until I made the candles. The flakes were much larger than with previous purchases of C3, and the supplier was adamant that there would be no fluctuation in the finished product when I noticed it was a different lot number than what I got before.

[Stella1952]

powdery chunky mess

I am not sure what this looks like. Do you have a photo you could post?

heat up to where everything is liquid, cool it down a bit, heat it up again to around 210 - pour it into the pour container, then add fragrance, stir for around 2 minutes and pour into the jars

What I am reading is a sure way to inconsistent performance with NatureWax C3 (or nearly any soy-based wax I can think of). I would strongly suggest that you take a look at the handling instructions for NatureWax, available from the Elevance folks (you can call them and they will either email you the instructions or direct you to a link where you can download the pdf file). There is a LOT of discussion on the best procedures to use when popuring C3 available by searching the veggie wax forum.

What temp is the wax heated to? What temp is "cool it down a bit"? 210°F is too high of a temperature for NatureWax C3. What temperature is the wax poured? How much CO are you using? How much FO are you using? Are you using dye? If so how much and what kind?

As for your original question about whether your C3 was old, I don't know but I have kept C3 for well over a year with no degradation of product quality. I keep it stored in its original packaging (heavy plastic bag, tied closed tightly, inside a heavy cardboard carton) in a air conditioned/heated room in my house. I have never found any foreign material in any case I have purchased.

The size of the flakes has never seemed to matter in the final products from ANY of the cases of NatureWax C3 I have used. Large flakes would actually keep better because they present less surface area for the wax to come into contact with air & oxidize. Powdery or tiny flakes tend to oxidize more quickly. The wax doesn't really "dry out," so much as it oxidizes and the crystal structure of the wax changes and becomes more powdery, like it does when it is improperly poured, cooled or stored and "frosts" in a candle or tart.. A nice, fresh case of C3 has some large flakes, but mostly medium sized ones (3/4"), is just off-white and has a fresh "soy wax" aroma. If the wax smells rancid or like old shortening, it has spoiled (something I have seen in my own kitchen with Crisco, but never actually seen veggie wax do this).

I mix 60/40 C3 to 4627 and I shouldn't have these issues, especially the cracking and frosting.

Again, photos would be most helpful.

I am confused by much of your post, so please bear with me and help me understand. Are you saying that your formula was working just fine and that the ONLY CHANGE in your ingredients or procedures was the new batch of C3? Did you buy a case of C3 or less?

Or have you been having inconsistant results with your formula prior to the new C3?:confused:

Edited September 12, 2009 by Stella1952

[WillowBoo]

no inconsistent results with the testers and the other bags of C-3 I used. (yes, I've been testing for ages) The 210 temperature is so the wax is around 190 when I can get the FO into the pour pot. Don't forget I have a lot of 4627 in the mix. The only difference of what I may have done is stirred more when pouring the actual jars. I wasn't a big stirrer with the testers but opted to do that when I poured the candles. That's the only thing different. Stella - you mentioned powdery feel if the soy is bad. When I mixed the C3 with Usa and cooled it without anything else in it, it was very powdery and clumpy. Poured new candles with the old stuff. Will know the results tomorrow.

[Stella1952]

Stella - you mentioned powdery feel if the soy is bad.

That's not what I said...

"Powdery or tiny flakes tend to oxidize more quickly. The wax doesn't really "dry out," so much as it oxidizes and the crystal structure of the wax changes and becomes more powdery, like it does when it is improperly poured, cooled or stored and "frosts" in a candle or tart." That doesn't mean it is "bad," it means that the wax has been improperly stored and has oxidized and frosted.

When I mixed the C3 with Usa and cooled it without anything else in it, it was very powdery and clumpy.

How can something be powdery AND clumpy at the same time? Sure would like to see a photo!:undecided

Poured new candles with the old stuff. Will know the results tomorrow.

Good idea. I would have done this as soon as I thought there was a difference between the new ingredient and the old one. The thing to do IS to test the new stuff against the old stuff with exactly the same ingredients, amounts and procedures with the ONLY difference being the C3 used. If you get inconsistent results with the new stuff, notify your supplier and ask for a replacement. Take photos to email the supplier to SHOW them what happened. Good luck.

[WillowBoo]

I mixed 4 candles with the last of the C3 that worked before - used my pumpkin scent mixture and right now I have no frosting and no cracking.

They are a medium dark orange color. The candles already have a great cold throw and I made them around 12 hours ago. The bad ones showed frosting and cracking immediately -still had a terrific throw though.

I will hold onto the mix I made and take pictures - but can't do that till mid week. It was a big clumpy mess and when I cut it, it crumbled. No bad smell to it though. Believe me....huge difference in the end result with that one dang bag of C3!!!!!!

I sent those candles from hell up to a local shop for an open house they are having this weekend because they were waiting for them - 16 of them and got a call they needed more candles. (That is why I was so panicked.) They sold despite the frosting and the cracking that I just couldn't get out with the heat gun. I had nightmares afterwards about sending them because I really didn't want to make this into a commercial adventure in the first place. People just wanted my candles when they heard I was making them!

Ordered another batch of C3 from another supplier. If someone could figure this out...it may be beneficial to a lot of people. THere are no lot numbers on the bags I've purchased, just UPC codes. To have to test every 10 lb bag you get doesn't seem worth the effort!!!!

[islandgirl]

I feel your pain with soy.. Each Lot/Batch will differ.

This may not be what you want to hear, but yes, I would test each batch.

You may want to invest in a 50lb box of it..

Then you will have the lot # on it and you can track bad/problem batches.

Let the supplier you bought this batch from know...

If you are having this problem, I am sure others are also..

I've only one bad batch of C-3 a few years ago..So it can happen.

Not the same issues you are encountering.

It was a bad/problem batch which bubbled up like their was soap in it when melting, and then little strings of junk would show up in the melted wax, and settle at the bottom of my cooled candles... It was weird.

For the most part, C-3 has been pretty consistent. I really like this wax.

Now the straight 415.. OMG :rolleyes2:rolleyes2:rolleyes2 Changes like the wind... LOL

[WillowBoo]

Thanks....then I'm not totally insane...talk about Murphy's Law! I've had 555 testers made with no trouble. The one batch I really needed to be good, wasn't! I already ordered the 10 lb. bag - but if I continue this, I will take your suggestion and buy a big supply. I really like doing this -a little too much OCD popping up.....LOL!

You chandlers that do it all -pillars, containers, tarts, bakery items, etc, etc.....got to hand it to you...you are fabulous!

[islandgirl]

Thanks....then I'm not totally insane...talk about Murphy's Law! I've had 555 testers made with no trouble. The one batch I really needed to be good, wasn't!

You are not insane... LOL

Do exactly what your doing.. Testing!!!

I pull candles all the time from my stocked shelves to test.. It is never ending..

I am probably burning about 6 of them right now..

Just to make sure that all are burning and throwing the way they should be.. You just never know...

Edited September 13, 2009 by islandgirl