Pointers for using 464 (please add to list)

[tribeccatops]

This is what I've learned from the forum thus far:

1. Despite the fact that CS says that 464 can handle 12% fragrance, You shouldn't have to, 9% is probably the highest you should go (I've used 12% and can barely get a hot throw:rolleyes2)

2. Coconut oil helps with the cold and hot throw and helps speed up cure time, UV stabilizer should be added to prevent candles from discolorizing

3. Apparently CDN wicks are great to use with veggie waxes (I'm using ECOs and am not getting a great hot throw but it could be because of something that I'm doing wrong:()

4. Pouring temp: I've read that SOME people like to pour at 100F while most seem to prefer to pour hotter like between 150-170F (I have yet to try to pour hotter, I pour at 135%)

5. It seems that most like to mix 464 with other waxes, some with paraffin, others with palm. I'm not sure which yields the best results.

PLEASE add any other pointers or suggestions! TIA!

[Cait]

Great thread! I will have to think of some things to add, but I just have to agree about number 1. I've experimented using 12% before (and have adjusted wicks) and the HT wasn't amazing. I've been more successful with HT using 6%-9% of FO.

[kandlenutz]

This is a great thread! I love seeing more about the 464 on here! I have found that pouring hot works the best for me, I am not sure of the exact temp when I pour into room temp jars, but I'm guessing 155 or 160, maybe 165 sometimes, just depends when I add fo, etc. I dont do all this to an exact art, but I still get great throw, so I am not stressing over it. I was making tarts w/ the 464, but have found that 444 is much easier to work with for the tarts and have done some jars too and I think its just as good as the 464. 464 makes great smelling tarts, but can be harder to release from some molds, but not all. I have a link started about fo's that do well in this wax and when I get a free minute, I plan on updating that. I think its nice to know what does good and what doesnt, and if it helps someone else save money and time, then I am all for it! Cant wait to see more posting on this thread!

[Monvi33]

This is a great thread! I love seeing more about the 464 on here! I have found that pouring hot works the best for me, I am not sure of the exact temp when I pour into room temp jars, but I'm guessing 155 or 160, maybe 165 sometimes, just depends when I add fo, etc. I dont do all this to an exact art, but I still get great throw, so I am not stressing over it. I was making tarts w/ the 464, but have found that 444 is much easier to work with for the tarts and have done some jars too and I think its just as good as the 464. 464 makes great smelling tarts, but can be harder to release from some molds, but not all. I have a link started about fo's that do well in this wax and when I get a free minute, I plan on updating that. I think its nice to know what does good and what doesnt, and if it helps someone else save money and time, then I am all for it! Cant wait to see more posting on this thread!

This is Great! Although what works for one may not work for another.

I am opposite on pour temp..I find for me that pouring cool/slightly slushy 100-115 usually 110 gives me the best appearance with the least ammount of frosting. I get a few more wet spots, working on those, however I can live with wet spots.

I find that 6%-8% FO gives me fantastic HT on most FO. If not I will not use it.

I also have taken Stella's advice and I temper my wax..takes a little longer but works for me, and I don't mind the extra time for a super smooth candle.

I prefer the Eco wicks, but also use the CDN's, HTP's, and LX (still testing most all) usually end up with Eco or CDN.

Just what I do..HTH!

[Stella1952]

While I can understand the desire for some type of definitive instructions for using ANY product, because of all the variables that have been mentioned over and over again, there IS NO ONE WAY to achieve great results!

There are MANY different high quality soy-based waxes, all with slightly different formulas and characteristics. There are no reliable high-quality cake mix type kits for candlemaking because the WAY one makes candles has as much to do with the outcome as using high-quality ingredients! Making quality candles is not only an art, it is a science! You have to work at it and be willing to learn by trial & error! It ain't just meltin' wax, addin' scent, stickin' in a wick & VOILA! - the new Yankme Candle competitor!! NOT!! :rolleyes2

Prepare for using a wax product by researching & reading what other users have to say about it. LEARN to use the "search" tool and search before you ask!!! Understand that user opinions/experiences may differ, so don't believe everything you read! Just try to get a "feel" for what folks think of the particular product. Before using a wax, go to the manufacturer's website for product information! While some sites are disappointing, most contain a LOT of really good information about the product they manufacture as well as general handling information.

Work through issues one by one. Don't try to cram every question into ONE thread!!! No one solution or method will work for everyone. Some people report no problems whatsoever while others report nothing BUT problems! Some folks seem to have a knack for working with soy wax; others apparently were behind the door when that particular talent was handed out... :undecided

Here's my list of suggestions for troubleshooting & taming soy-based wax - pretty much the same for ALL brands of soy wax. You will not need to do all of these things to resolve YOUR issue with YOUR wax - it is simply a troubleshooting list of suggestions in no particular order:

1. Use an additive for frosting issues - USA or coconut oil

2. Temper the wax to reduce frosting and enhance the overall texture of the wax

3. Pour at a higher (160°-170°F) temp

4. Pour at a low temp (slushy, 125°F or less)

5. Add FOs at 150°F-165°F for best results

6. STIR the wax thoroughly and frequently during melting and pouring

7. Use wicks that are designed for use with viscous veggie waxes, such as Stabilo KST (CDN) series and others

8. Use the least amount of FO possible to achieve the desired HT. Helps with frosting issues and burning properties.

9. Use the least amount of dye possible. Helps with frosting issues and burning properties.

10. Cool the candles slowly and evenly in a draft-free location.

11. Store the finished candles at a constant temp (68°-78°F). Do not expose to heat during storage (ie. hot outdoor shows, sun, heating vents, etc.).

12. Allow the candles to cure for at least 2 days (48 hours), preferably 5-7 days, for best scent cure.

13. Use prewashed, prewarmed containers in which to pour the wax to help reduce "wet spot" and frosting issues. Keep finished candles away from temperature changes (warm to cool) which promote the formation of wet spots.

14. To reduce frosting issues, try mixing in a small amount of paraffin OR palm wax to help stabilize the polymorphic crystal structure of soy wax.

If you want to achieve consistent satisfactory results, you have to payattention to what you are doing when pouring/cooling soy wax candles (procedure)!

• Temperature is #1. Keep a thermometer in the melting pot AND in the pouring pot so you will know + or - a few degrees to what temp the wax was heated, at what temp FO was added and at what temp the candle was poured.

• Room temperature/humidity are important. Too cold or too hot and humid are both undesirable environments in which to pour and cool soy candles. A draft-free area is desired.

• Stir slowly with a spoon or whisk. Do not use skewers to stir! Do not incorporate air while stirring - slow & steady - no "whipping" motions! Stir every 5 minutes as the wax melts to prevent the bottom layers of wax (next to the heat source) from becoming overheated. Stir frequently, then continuously during tempering. Stir continuously after adding FO. Stir continuously during the pouring procedure (except when you ARE pouring, of course!). Stirring is very important to obtaining a smooth, consistent texture in the cooled product.

• Pour into prewarmed containers (not HOT - no higher than about 100°-125°F, depending on your pouring temp) for best results, especially in a cool room.

• Record batch data so that IF (WHEN) a problem develops down the line, you can refer back to see what happened when that particular candle was made.

I can't emphasize enough how important it is to write down exactly what you do when making candles! Write data down as you go so that you can review it later. It helps to make yourself a form so you don't forget anything. This is important not only for analyzing future problems - sometimes we review the procedures used in a particular batch because we want to see what we did that was so RIGHT so we can keep on doing it that way! HTH

[samandkennasmom]

Thankyou Stella for the awesome info!! I printed it out for future reference! You sure got it going on girl!!

Hugs

Michele

[Stella1952]

Here's one more good 464 link I just found while looking up tempering information...

http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?p=197532post197532

It's one where Jason from Golden Brands describes how to temper GW464. HTH

[kyme1911]

Thank you Stella, that is so informative.