rebeccajo99 Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 I've been doing some research on coconut oil and USA. Trying to figure out what one to use to help me with my frosting in my ecosoya 135. I just cannot decide which one to use. Coconut oil seems easier as I can just go down to my local store and buy some where I would have to order and wait for the USA to be shipped. Everybody that I see using the 135 does not use additives, but they are also using dye free and my dye free gets ucky grey as I'm burning them Plus, the smallest wick that I have in RRD's appear to strong for the dye free, so I'm researching a different wick brand for those.Any suggestions on which additive I should just break down and buy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flicker Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Sounds to me like you are experiencing some degree of soot by the gray color you describe. What jar are you using? I used eco 135 for years and can probably help target the right wick for you. Also try not using more than an oz per lb of scent. The more scent the dirtier the candle will burn. As for the Universal Soy Additive and or coconut oil, I never used either. Just pour your candles at a slushy stage and most all frost and pitting will be eliminated. HTH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebeccajo99 Posted May 19, 2009 Author Share Posted May 19, 2009 Thank-you for the reply and for your help. I am using the 9 oz hex jars, 1 oz of fo per 16 oz of wax. The one I'm working on right now is Amish Harvest in the dye free. My last burn test I tried the RRD 29 and I got a lot of hang up on the sides, but did not get my ucky grey. I have been contiplating trying the RRD 34 again to confirm my greyish wax or if a wick clipping dropped in there that I missed. Any help would be appreciated though.As for my dyed ones. I read a bunch of people say to pour at a slushy state and never figured out what a slushy state is. I've been pouring for a while now and I just started having frosting issues a couple of months ago. I know the things that I changed (besides the weather getting warmer) was that I lowered my fo amount. I was not getting any frosting with the higher amount which seems oposite than what should have happened. Thanks again for taking your time to help me with my questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted May 19, 2009 Share Posted May 19, 2009 Test both of them, Rebecca. Some folks prefer one over the other; some folks use both!! Some waxes do better when poured at the higher end; others do better at the lower end. I have not used your wax, so I can't give an opinion - just try different things and see what works best for you.The grey in the wax is from the wick. UV absorber also helps with color changes in uncolored wax. I like CDN wicks - sometimes use CDs if it's a real small candle. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meridith Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 Based on my limited testing, I prefer the USA over the CO. When I tested CO in my candles, I got soot and no noticeable improvement with my burn or throw. The tops did look sort of glassy and no frosting. I used it at 1 TBS per pound. I haven't tested the CO any further. Once I got soot, I haven't gone back to try it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flicker Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 I personally do not use RRD wicks and honestly they are not my favorite series, not by a long shot. Have you considered testing the CD wicks at all. That jar has a diameter of 2 5/8, for that I would say to start with a CD 12. I would say that should yeild great results with no excess sooting. When I am testing wicks in waxes I typically will know within a few candles if I don't like the way a particular wick burns. I will usually then change series and go from there.A CD 12 should give a nice even burn with your jar and wax with most fragrances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebeccajo99 Posted May 20, 2009 Author Share Posted May 20, 2009 I have been looking into the CD wicks, but have not found a supplier that does a sample pack. (maybe you can help). I do like how there is many more options then all the other series that I looked into. Right now with the RRD's 1 will be to weak so I go to the next size and they are too strong. Its almost like they need 1 in the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flicker Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 I PM'd you but with many wick series there are almost gaps in sizes. You are right. I prefer, especially when working with soy, to have a wick series that is a. cotton and b. has a multitude of various sizes where instead of leaving a gap the sizes almost overlap. Does that make sense? For example in a 2.5" diameter jar, a CD 10 may work well for one scent, but for others I need a CD 12...there isn't a ton of variation between the two wicks but the 12 is a bit hotter. I can single wick up to about a 3.4" diameter with a CD 22 and down to a bitty tealight with a CD 1 or 2. It is really a great series of wicks and I find that most people will use it permanantly once they test them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbla Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 When I tested CO in my candles, I got soot and no noticeable improvement with my burn or throw. Are you saying you didn't get soot before, but then you started getting it after adding coconut oil? Same wax & wicks & FOs? I've been googling the 'net to find other people experiencing additional soot with coconut oil, and I can't find any discussion about it except here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judy, USMC Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Most of the posters said they were using it at 1 teaspoon per pound and Meridith said she used 1 Tablespoon. Possibly too much CO???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 I use 1 tsp per lb and I don't get any soot. I use 444 and imo it does enhance the scent throw. I've never tried 1 tablespoon. I would think that might be a bit much but I don't know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meridith Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Are you saying you didn't get soot before, but then you started getting it after adding coconut oil? Same wax & wicks & FOs? I've been googling the 'net to find other people experiencing additional soot with coconut oil, and I can't find any discussion about it except here.Yes. But like I said, I did not test it alot. I only tested it at 1 TBS pp and because I got soot and did not notice any noticeable improvement in the throw, I did not test it any further. I decided why bother since I liked my own blend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meridith Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 I use 1 tsp per lb and I don't get any soot. I use 444 and imo it does enhance the scent throw. I've never tried 1 tablespoon. I would think that might be a bit much but I don't knowIt could be, but it did not improve my throw. I tried it at the very beginning of the hype and didn't go far in my testing. That is cool you found what works for you. It takes a lot of work and frustration so its nice when we finally get it. :smiley2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbla Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 One reason I'm wanting to try it is someone said it hardens wax. I want to try mixing IGI 4794 (votives) with a softer container wax to see if I can improve the scent throw of the 4794. If the coconut oil both hardens the wax up and improves the scent throw, then that's even better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 It could be, but it did not improve my throw. I tried it at the very beginning of the hype and didn't go far in my testing. That is cool you found what works for you. It takes a lot of work and frustration so its nice when we finally get it. :smiley2:Isn't it strange how certain things will work for one person and not for another?? That's always amazed me. :smiley2: Candlemaking can be very frustrating. I've been doing this for 5 yrs and I still have problems sometimes. I don't think you ever quit learning with this hobby/business! LoL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebeccajo99 Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 Sounds to me like you are experiencing some degree of soot by the gray color you describe. What jar are you using? I used eco 135 for years and can probably help target the right wick for you. Also try not using more than an oz per lb of scent. The more scent the dirtier the candle will burn. As for the Universal Soy Additive and or coconut oil, I never used either. Just pour your candles at a slushy stage and most all frost and pitting will be eliminated. HTH!quick question... pouring at a cooler or hotter state does not effect wicking does it? So if I start playing around with pour temps, I don't have to worry about my wicks changing or do i? (i know, maybe a stupid question) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 This may be a stupid question, but have you thoroughly read the information at the NGI website pertaining to CB 135? http://www.ngiwax.com/ecosoya-cb-135 Pouring temp doesn't affect the wicking. We fool around with temp for cosmetic reasons. Please give the CDs & CDNs a try...As for coconut oil... the original reason to try it was to help with rough tops & frosting issues. Someone somewhere alleged that it enhanced scent throw, so off everyone went!!:rolleyes2 I have never noticed that it made a dime's worth of difference in HT (in NatureWax C3), but it does help to smooth out the texture of the wax and reduce frosting somewhat (although not as effectively as does USA). It does seem to harden C3 (1 tsp. pp) somewhat. I have never noticed that CO causes more soot production... I think that is because whomever started that discussion did not have their candles wicked properly in the first place!One reason I'm wanting to try it is someone said it hardens wax. I want to try mixing IGI 4794 (votives) with a softer container wax to see if I can improve the scent throw of the 4794.According to the IGI website http://igiwax.com/industries-applications/candle-blends/ , you are using a paraffin wax. Remarks made about the use of coconut oil in SOY wax do not necessarily apply to paraffin. Paraffin & veggie waxes are VERY different from one another!! First, I'd suggest reading up on your wax at the IGI site (they have LOADS of information there), then look for a "paraffin" solution to your HT issues. It doesn't make any sense to use something that hardens wax when you are talking about mixing with a SOFTER wax... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebeccajo99 Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 StellaThanks for sending the link you have been a great help. I have read that information a few times before, but it is always nice for a refresher. I have been trying the CD wicks for a coupls of weeks and love the results that I have been getting so far. I may actually have my first candle sucessfully wicked with them already, but won't know for another week or three when testing is completed. Getting a great hot throw so far with it. This candle, however, is without additives as I had this one poured about a month ago and has been curing waiting for a test. I still would like to go without additives if possible since it will leave one less step out for possible error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I've been doing some research on coconut oil and USA. Trying to figure out what one to use to help me with my frosting in my ecosoya 135.Rebeccajo, this thread has wandered a little from your original question. NGI reports that CB 135 has a tendency to frost, especially with dyes. For you and others, here's the link to the handling instructions for NGI's CBs.http://www.ngiwax.com/cb-instructionsThe troubleshooting info at the bottom of the page at the link above is very worthy!! So often, we wander off the path or take shortcuts that lead us astray...When you have problems, go back to basics. Make a candle in the container you like and use only wax & wick. Do your test burns and if everything goes well, you KNOW the problems does not come from the wax or the wick type/size. If you begin having issues at this point, go back to the handling instructions and make sure the problem you are experiencing is not related to HOW you are melting/pouring/cooling, temperatures, etc. When you make a good candle using only a wick and the wax, then add FO and see how that changes your candle. Once you are pleased with the wick, wax & FO, then make a candle with dye.IMHO, most difficulties occur because people are trying to take shortcuts and move too quickly with their candlemaking. It takes MONTHS, for example, simply to learn if you have made a soy candle that won't frost or cauliflower during storage!!*faint* Each FO must be tested. Each dye must be tested. Each combination (FO + dye) must be tested. Each new batch of wax should be tested. Each new batch of wicks should be tested. Testing must be methodical or it's useless, meaning tests should take place under the same environmental conditions (temp & humidity) and for the same duration (1 hour per inch of candle diameter) each time, or the results will not be accurate.After reading here at CT for several years, I find that when the weather changes from cool to warm and vice versa, the forums will be busy with problems that have "suddenly" begun! Soy wax is sensitive to temperature changes. It is polymorphic. It's predictable that some folks will have more issues as the weather becomes warmer. Keep an eye on the room temperature & humidity in your pouring area. Be sure to store the finished candles in a climate-controlled area where the temp & humidity are the same year-round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebeccajo99 Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 yea... i noticed that too. After much thinking and reading my notes last week I decided that I bit off more than I can chew right now between this and now having 2 kids. So I decided to pack away all my dyes, notes on other products to add (like reed diffusers and aroma beads) and work on this candle size and doing a dye free line first. Additives are still a possilbity and I have those notes all tucked by my side, but someone mentioned that they have solved thier frosting without using additives by pouring cooler, so I thought I would give that a try as well. I have not tried the unscented/undyed candle with CD wicks yet. I tried that with my old wick series, but forgot to on this one. It is now added to my list of candles to pour this weekend. Now, just need to stay focused on this and stop reading posts about other products to get my brain moving again!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbla Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 It doesn't make any sense to use something that hardens wax when you are talking about mixing with a SOFTER wax... Not sure I'm addressing your confusion because I already stated I'm mixing a softer wax with a harder wax. That combination is going to end up being softer so adding the coconut oil would harden it back. You lost me because you yourself stated I was making a SOFTER wax, but then you couldn't see why I would want it harder when votives are in general harder? This is called experimentation, testing, the same thing you do. What's so confusing about that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Experimentation is a wonderful thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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