Vio Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Well, I'm still working with the premiere wicks in C-3 and have noticed something today, I hadn't noticed before. When you put a wicked jar in the oven on lowest temp, 170, and then turn it off and put jar in there, if you remove the jar after a few minutes to pour soon after, the wick had a drip of wax going down it from the coating. I didn't twist this wick. It was clear of cracking and looked evenly coated. Is this good or bad? I emailed wickit to ask them what wax is used with them, and the melt point as well. I'm just curious if it would negatively affect my burn somehow. Do we want a wick that has a low melt point, so it's primed? Or is the wick supposed to be higher melt point, so that it burns hotter or something, but doesn't go down as much too fast to melt the harder to burn soy? Also, has anyone ever figured out just what makes a wick bend to self trim? Like is there a way to test a wick before, I wonder, to tell where it will bend to trim? I also emailed them to ask this question, but wondering if anyone here ever figured it out. It would be nice if there was a method to determine it, so the wick could be off centered to compensate for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharon in PA Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 Well, I'm still working with the premiere wicks in C-3 and have noticed something today, I hadn't noticed before. When you put a wicked jar in the oven on lowest temp, 170, and then turn it off and put jar in there, if you remove the jar after a few minutes to pour soon after, the wick had a drip of wax going down it from the coating. I didn't twist this wick. It was clear of cracking and looked evenly coated. Is this good or bad? I emailed wickit to ask them what wax is used with them, and the melt point as well. I'm just curious if it would negatively affect my burn somehow. Do we want a wick that has a low melt point, so it's primed? Or is the wick supposed to be higher melt point, so that it burns hotter or something, but doesn't go down as much too fast to melt the harder to burn soy? Also, has anyone ever figured out just what makes a wick bend to self trim? Like is there a way to test a wick before, I wonder, to tell where it will bend to trim? I also emailed them to ask this question, but wondering if anyone here ever figured it out. It would be nice if there was a method to determine it, so the wick could be off centered to compensate for that.Hi, about this last part...I read a post once where the person had seemed to figure out that the direction (up or down) of the little triangle on the wick determined to what side the wick would bend...I know these triangles are there on CD's.... not familiar with your wicks though....just a thought.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vio Posted January 29, 2008 Author Share Posted January 29, 2008 Thank you Sharon, I have to look at the wick closely through a magnifying glass and see if I can see anything. Hopefully wickit will be able to tell me how I can tell as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 A flat braided wick will always bend in the direction of the upward pointing braid. If you're looking at the wick like this, it will bend towards you:^^^^You can use that to adjust the position of the wick if you like. Personally I never mangle my wicks to get the melt pool centered. Just seems like an awkward kludge to me and I prefer for them to burn the way God and the manufacturer intended. Simply positioning them for a more centered burn works fine.The wax coating on the Premiers can make it very hard to see the braiding. You may have to look pretty closely or melt the coating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vio Posted January 29, 2008 Author Share Posted January 29, 2008 Well this is surely something to experiment with. Thank you Top and Sharon, and tomorrow when the sun is up again, I'll really take a closer look at the wicks to spot that v. I really love the premiere's so far, but the off center burn is annoying and confusing me too I think. I've tried a few methods of twisting, and I really think this wick doesn't like to be twisted. I've had horrible results with twisted versus left alone wicks with these. I've done everything from full blown twisting, to just a twist or two and I have a feeling the wick doesn't like to be exposed from it's coating in any way. When I did my twists, even the most gentle of twists, made them flake. I was thinking of next, trying to warm the wick then twist it, but then it just popped into my head, why not try and just compensate for the curl? LOL I did a candle today to try with wick just straight, to prove to myself my wicks just don't like to be twisted. Will burn that and check for the distance average of the melt pool displacement, and the next will try and play with it. Can't hurt. The ones I'd twisted, were sooting badly. Ones I haven't twisted, never sooted. Thank you both for the info! Off topic, but I tried a candle today, *insert a big duh here*, without any usa. I am amazed at just how nicely C-3 sets up for me. In my current climate, same pouring and cooling conditions as with the usa, no difference in appearance at all, with the straight C-3. Things might get a little different as the seasons change, but for now, no rough tops or crazy frost. I have some testers I had added usa to, that had the twisted wicks, that I'm going to do some tarts with now because I think it might be just too cold in my climate, for a soy with usa to burn as expected, with an added hardener. Remelting them. I want to start with just the C-3 and see where it takes me as the year goes on. So far, loving it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 C-3 probably already has a type of USA in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vio Posted January 29, 2008 Author Share Posted January 29, 2008 The way I'm figuring it, if the load is 6% and that's what I want at most anyway, I shouldn't need to use it unless and until I do have a problem. I should email Cargill and ask them if there's something in there already and what do they consider it to do. Can't hurt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vio Posted January 30, 2008 Author Share Posted January 30, 2008 Well it turns out that if you light a wick without it already set, you can see which way it curls before placing it! LOL My eyes are so bad, but I could see the up v's were the side it leaned towards. I'm really learning so much, just from observing what I'm doing. Today I burned the tester I poured yesterday. This is the one with no USA. It set up fine for me like I said. I was really pleased with the look. No frosting. 3 inch diameter and at 3 hour burn time, was almost to the edge. What a yukky look though after it was put out. LOL Ick. I also noticed, that the scent didn't seem as strong without the USA. What I'm going to do now is burn this a few times and see if scent picks up. If not, my next step will be to add some raw C-3, to the testers I have already, that had the 3% USA, and see if I bump it down to 2%, then 1%, if things get balanced with the burn and scent throw. I think I know adding USA to the one that I had tested today, won't work because the wax has already grabbed onto the scent. Don't want to fuss there. Will just burn to see what C-3 does with no USA. This is fun! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vio Posted January 31, 2008 Author Share Posted January 31, 2008 Well my head hurts after working through the numbers, but I doubled the wax and FO, mixed them then added the candle I melted down, to make the USA 1.5 %. My god my head hurts!! *faint*Also testing off center wicking. Can't hurt to try it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Also testing off center wicking. Can't hurt to try it. We tried this, but the wicks looked so WRONG and we had to explain to each person who tested WHY the wicks were off-center... It's not that it doesn't work, it just looks funky. People expect a wick to be in the center of the candle. Can you IMAGINE the gossip after a show among the other chandlers..."Her wicks weren't even CENTERED - how can she put out product like that?" So now we twist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topofmurrayhill Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 I doubled the wax and FO, mixed them then added the candle I melted down, to make the USA 1.5 %.Hmmm.If you make a candle with no USA and add one of your previous 3% candles to it, the USA will be at 1.5%.I'm not sure if I understand what you did, but it sounds like you made a 2-candle recipe with no USA and then added a 3% candle into it? That would give you 1% USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Yay - Top's here. I am pretty dyscalculate and had that constipated, worried look on my face that I get when I suspect something is wrong with the math, but can't exactly express WHAT...For me, it would be much easier to simply make small batches with different amounts... hopefully I wouldn't mess that up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vio Posted January 31, 2008 Author Share Posted January 31, 2008 You know what's funny? I have seen candles with off center wicks and didn't buy them due to that. LMAOI'm about 2 steps from going cdn's Stella. Humor me because I'm about to lose it with these wicks already! I do not like the bending thing. The off center burn is making me very unhappy. I can't get the twist down. I did the twist last candles I made and all of them sooted badly. Really badly. That same wax in a new jar with no bend on wick, was fine though. Top I had some candle left in a jar. Not a full 10 oz's anymore but not far from it. Cinnamon actually, that was made with 3% USA at 10 oz's. I doubled, then subtracted and added fo and wax to make up the 20 oz size. Got a full candle and two cupcakes out of it. Just want to see how I like the less USA. I think 3% might be inhibiting my burn. No USA at all, I didn't like the scent throw. Pretty weak on a strong thrower. Christmas Pear. That one, I'm just burning and testing alone. Checking pure C-3 and fo behavior. The new one has been doubled with everything else, and made to half the USA. I did a big duh not starting on the low end with the USA. I am learning a ton now about actually how to think with this stuff now. LOL edit: I added no USA to the extra wax and fo I melted, before adding the melted candle that had 3% USA already in it. You know, did I mess that one up? I figured out a 10 oz for 3%, where it should have been 3% per pound. OMG I hate math!!! I flubbed that one up. Oh yes I did. What I had done was....91% wax 9.1 oz3% USA .3 oz6% fo .6 ozBut.....that was based on 10 oz candle. I should have done it differently I see that now. But can't see how to correct it right now for my next 10 oz candle from scratch, because my head is really spinning! No wonder my candle was too hard. I added too much USA. It's winter here. Extra hard wax probably wouldn't be the best way to go, which is why my wicking is driving me crazy. I think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vio Posted January 31, 2008 Author Share Posted January 31, 2008 Oh yeah I messed this up. Badly too. I left out the per pound thing and was going by 10 oz's with my whole recipe for 10 oz. Just checked my notes. OMG I was so sure I did it right too. Well, another thing learned and it wasn't costly so it's OK. Just some added insanity. I think Top or Stella posted this, and I had it cut and pasted in my notes. This is what I should have done. For all those mathematically challenged people out there: To calculate FO usage per pound by percentage it’s easyTime the percentage in decimal form (for example 12% = .12, 5%= .05) by 16 (that is the amount of ounces in a pound). For example .12 X 16 = 1.92 Hence roughly 2 oz. weighed FO per pound. Once you know the weight of the wax you need for example a 10oz jar (i.e liquid ounces) then divide that number by 16 and multiple that number by how much FO per pound you calculated above. Say my jar requires 12 weighed ounces of wax. So for example:12 ÷16 = .75.75 X 2 = 1.5There you have it – 1½ weighed ounce of FO per jar candle.I see it now. I don't want that recipe, but I need to use that method since I'm using less than a pound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vio Posted January 31, 2008 Author Share Posted January 31, 2008 OMG I'm going to cry I swear. OK for my 10 oz total weight. FO....06 X 16 for 6% fo per pound = .9610 / 16 = .625.625 X .96 = .6I still get .6 oz's per 10 oz, even if figuring it out at the proper way for 10 oz. Is that just a coincidence? Now USA....03 X 16 for 3% per pound = .48.625 X .48 = .3 I'm really gonna cry. LOL I'm getting the same numbers and it can't be right. 3% of 16 can't equal the same thing as 3% of 10!!! Yes it's official. I'm retarted or something. I swear I'm extremely intelligent. I just totally suck at math with percents and decimals. I feel like a total moron. Why can't I get it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LightofDawn Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Step away from the calculator, drink a very tall margarita and take a deep breath. This is the part of candlemaking that I struggle the most with and I think I am pretty good with math too. It is hard enough for me to figure everything from scratch. There is no way I could combine a previously made candle and add wax, USA & fragrance and keep my sanity. You are more couragous than I. Hope it all works out.DawnP.S. I've been doing some testing this week with the Madison Jars and the Ultra-Core wicks. I hope to have some results and pics up this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vio Posted February 1, 2008 Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 The funny thing is, I'm trying to conserve wax, and look at what it did to me!! LOL I'm not even worried about that anymore. I'm just worried I'm doing it wrong. Lost my confidence in my recipe for sure at this point. It can't possibly be right. I just want to get the method right at this point. I think I'll just make cupcakes with excess over my 10oz'ers and then melt when I do the same fo again. I can't get how I got the exact same numbers, simply multiplying .06 X 10, as I do if I do it the right way. It can't be right!!! LOL Thanks Lightofdawn. Yeah I need to step away from the calc, cause this is driving me insane!!! You testing the 12 oz madisons? Can't wait to hear your results. Using C-3 by any chance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LightofDawn Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I'm actually testing the 8 oz. Madisons, but they are the same diameter as the 12 oz. And yes I am using C3 with USA. I was testing the Premier's when I had time with OK results. I think the wide selection of sizes just drives me nuts sometimes. I have 4 candles burning right now. Three 8 oz. Madisons and one 8 oz. square Mason. I have to say that so far I really like these wicks. They stand straight up and do not curl so melt pool stays fairly even all the way around. (except for the fact that I do not center all that well). I will do my best to share results and pics hopefully sometime this weekend.Dawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vio Posted February 1, 2008 Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 Premiere's seem like good wicks. They just, well it could be my messed up calculations too, they just bug me when I'm trying to see if they're working right, when they're off center. I tried to trim to 1/8 and it's a little better centered, but not as hot, and there's no way I'm going to overwick just so a low wick will burn well. Someone will wind up leaving the wick long and it will become a bomb or something. LOL I can't wait to hear your results with the madison. Thank you for your kind words LightOfDawn. Thanks to everyone for putting up with my spaztic n00bness, and much respect because this isn't easy stuff to do! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vio Posted February 1, 2008 Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 OMG am I overthinking or what. I see now they both get the same thing and it's right. Just something didn't seem right. Kids driving me nuts today or something. Now that they're asleep, I got it thought out. Did the same but on a 8 and 16 oz and the numbers come up right, so I'm good. OMG my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I'm about 2 steps from going cdn's Stella. Humor me because I'm about to lose it with these wicks already! I do not like the bending thing. The off center burn is making me very unhappy.Hey if the curl's driving you crazy NOW, you're gonna LOVE CDNs, 'cause they curl too. Step away from the calculator, drink a very tall margarita and take a deep breath.Dawn has spoken great words of wisdom there!! Slow down!! Surviving a day with demanding kids AND conducting candle tests counts as a winner if, by nighttime, the kids are still alive and the testing doesn't burn the house down!!spaztic n00bnessI never heard it put that way before, but the term has merit... in fact, I think I resemble that remark from time to time!! :laugh2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vio Posted February 1, 2008 Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 I just lit my Off Center Double Spaz Cinnamon. I named it. LOL I really couldn't stop laughing thinking of what you said Stella, because it's true. Who the heck looks at a candle with an off center flame and thinks, "oh now isn't that pretty?" I have got to get this twisting wicks thing down. I'm going to try twisting after the jar is warm this time, so the wax doesn't crumble off. I really think it would help with these confounded wicks! I was going nuts last night. I was looking at those numbers, and just knew I did something wrong. I don't expect to be doing anything right yet with this, so naturally, if my candles aren't really having all these problems people are mentioning with C-3 appearance, it's got to be I did something wrong? I'm gonna burn my "special" candle and save it to remember this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I'm going to try twisting after the jar is warm this time, so the wax doesn't crumble off.Do it COLD. The wax WILL crumble a little. If the jar is warm, it WILL stick. Just blow the crumbs of wick wax out before you warm or pour.I don't expect to be doing anything right yet with this, so naturally, if my candles aren't really having all these problems people are mentioning with C-3 appearance, it's got to be I did something wrong?If your candles ain't broke, don't try to fix 'em!!You WILL encounter problems at some point and THEN you can start wearing your lab coat and tearing your hair. Until then, if your candles are lookin' okay, don't MESS with 'em!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowgirl Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Try securing your wicks, go ahead and pour, then twist and secure wick with a clothespin to your wick centering tool. I think its easier and less time consuming doing it this way. Let me know if it works out for ya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vio Posted February 1, 2008 Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 Thank you both. I'll try it both ways thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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