Gb 444?

[Cindy/WI]

Just wondering what you all think of this wax. soycandle.com has it on sale for $29.99 (50 pound box) for limited time so thought I would order some if it's a good soy wax? TIA Cindy/WI

[candlemandave]

I just bought a little bit before xmas to test for this year and so far I like it except for the bleeding/sweating. I am still not sure if what I am seeing is scent or wax that is beading up? See the problem I am having is when the blend is exposed to heat it begins to bleed or sweat.(basic sunlight at 65F) I put a lot of scent in these testers though, 11% of some awesome scent that is the biggest bleeder of the ones I have. Thing is I have another scent that is so powerful that only 4% is necessary and I still got the bleed with a raise in heat.

When I first tested soy/vege wax 2 years ago, the stuff i got sucked so bad that I couldn't use it. But, it sweated without any scent added. That is why I am curious as to what I am actually seeing with this current problem. The obvious first step will be to make a candle without any scent and expose it to heat and see what I get.

I'm glad you told me about this deal because I was just getting ready to order more and that is a good price for only 50lbs. I am buying the uninversal soy additive to add to this wax in order to get more scent in.

The thing is with the amount of scent I put in some of these testers, the other wax that I originally bought would still have scent pooled at the top. The 444 was minimal in comparison. And, compared to other waxes that I"ve used, the look is pretty good too.

If you are going to be testing this wax blend, I would love to share experiences in regards to test results. Let me know if you're interested.

dave

[NoOneSpecial]

Even with that low price once you add on the shipping it is still cheaper for me to order from CS. 300lbs from soycandle.com with shipping is $340.80 for me and the same amount from CS is only $328.79 at their regular price.

[Cindy/WI]

Sure I would like to share our experiences with you on this wax. I've never used the GB444 I've been using C3 by Cargill for the last few years. But wanted to try something else. You can pm me and we can exchange email addy's. I just ordered a case so I'll have to wait to test till it gets here. Cindy/WI

I just bought a little bit before xmas to test for this year and so far I like it except for the bleeding/sweating. I am still not sure if what I am seeing is scent or wax that is beading up? See the problem I am having is when the blend is exposed to heat it begins to bleed or sweat.(basic sunlight at 65F) I put a lot of scent in these testers though, 11% of some awesome scent that is the biggest bleeder of the ones I have. Thing is I have another scent that is so powerful that only 4% is necessary and I still got the bleed with a raise in heat.

When I first tested soy/vege wax 2 years ago, the stuff i got sucked so bad that I couldn't use it. But, it sweated without any scent added. That is why I am curious as to what I am actually seeing with this current problem. The obvious first step will be to make a candle without any scent and expose it to heat and see what I get.

I'm glad you told me about this deal because I was just getting ready to order more and that is a good price for only 50lbs. I am buying the uninversal soy additive to add to this wax in order to get more scent in.

The thing is with the amount of scent I put in some of these testers, the other wax that I originally bought would still have scent pooled at the top. The 444 was minimal in comparison. And, compared to other waxes that I"ve used, the look is pretty good too.

If you are going to be testing this wax blend, I would love to share experiences in regards to test results. Let me know if you're interested.

dave

[erinmfritz]

I use this wax and don't think I'll ever change. (or at least not right now!) I would consider shipping for the wax too. Call them and see if they will give you a shipping quote to see if the price is right. I currently get mine from a supplier in IL and one that is closer to me in OH is higher priced with less in shipping but the total price is about the same as from IL and I love their customer service. So I decided not to change. 444 is a great wax, once you figure out the little quirks of soy.

[Cindy/WI]

if you don't mined me asking who is your supplier in IL for GB 444 wax? I'm in WI so ordering from IL might be cheaper for me too. TIA Cindy/WI

I use this wax and don't think I'll ever change. (or at least not right now!) I would consider shipping for the wax too. Call them and see if they will give you a shipping quote to see if the price is right. I currently get mine from a supplier in IL and one that is closer to me in OH is higher priced with less in shipping but the total price is about the same as from IL and I love their customer service. So I decided not to change. 444 is a great wax, once you figure out the little quirks of soy.

[erinmfritz]

http://www.gatewayfoodproducts.com/soywax.htm

The Rep's name is Kris Kackley, she has been great with me. I could order this from someone closer but the price is more per 50# so the savings in shipping doesn't make up for it. Tha only downfall is that they don't sell less than 50# at a time. But, I highly recommend them. Any time I have ordered, if I call early enough, she ships it the same day. She even shipped my wax out yesterday without the proper cc #, e-mailed me that there was a # wrong and waited for me to call back. You don't find that kind of customer service everywhere! Good luck.

[candlemandave]

Cindy,

My email is candlemandave@yahoo.com

I got 10lbs before the holiday ended and have made all the candles with it. I made the following...

16oz apothecary jars

26oz apothecary jars both jars are from Anckor Hocking...got these from a company that is local to me called fillmore container, I"ll give them props because they treat me right and they're good people. They're in Lancater PA. www.fillmorecontainer.com

I buy pretty awesome oils to go into the candles, I haven't seen any of the suppliers listed on here though as it seems more people go to the scent distributors rather than manufactuers.

I am using a uv absorber from candlescience and unfortunatly, I am not sure the kind. I just started thinking wholesaling candles and naturally need to worry with this.

I mixed .0025% of UV to 1 lb of GB444

That is all for my wax base.

I weighed out enough wax and scent for 1 each of the 16oz and 26oz for RED Apple Spice @ 10%, Kiwi @ 11%, Pumpkin Spice @ 11%, Rainforest @ 4%.

I use less of rainforest because it is a SUPER SCENT but is a true bitch to get the right wick size for reasons I"ll get to another time.

Regarding temperature, I did not worry with temperature because I was pushing the limits of the scent and if a little burned off, it's not a big deal.

I use a squirrel mixer that I got at home depot and have it on a drill. I have a different contraption at the shop I use to make the candles on a larger scale, but this thing works great on small test batches I like to do at home. BTW, if you don't already have one, definately try the squirrel mixer made by this company...damn, can't think of it...but it is called a caged squirrel mixer. It's patented and claims it can mix 3x faster and believe me, it does. It is awesome. If interested, I"ll get the company name.

Here are my results that render these candles useless to a degree...

They bled, even the 4% candle when briefly exposed to sunlight at 65F March in Pennsylvania. Which means the summer time will kill them. They even bled with the cap on.

What is interesting is that I brought them back to the cool room and after about 2 hours, the beads went away. When I say beads, it was almost like a pool of wax for the Kiwi and Pumpkin Spice, where as the Rainforest was just a dribble that looked like sweat.

I had similar results on a vegewax that once the bleeding began it was much larger and stayed for months (this was 10-11% also)

Someone said that a candle will bleed in direct sunlight on a post I made about this but I've never had paraffin do what soy does in regards to bleeding, and I"m sorry, if someone buys a candle from you or from a shop that carries your candles, they may not be too pleased to get home on a June afternoon and open their new candle and find this pool of stuff at the top. Or, telling a shop that will carry your candles, "Hey, don't sell these in the summer or to people that are not going to immediately take them home."

To me though, the good part is that once back inside, the candles returned to a normal state and even in direct sunlight, they do not bleed anymore.

What I hope this means is that with the soy additive, I have the freedom to go up to 10-11% if I need to.

But, so far my test have concluded that at 10-11%, you get substantial bleeding that once it has bled and reshaped itself does not bleed again(either the scent is evaporating or I don't know what the hell). There is a direct relationship between high fragrance load and bleeding because the 4% scent bled little, while the higher ones bled more. This is why it is pointing to the scent as the main culprit.

Good notes though...the look was pretty damn good. I poured them hot as hell and there was only a little crack at the top of the 26oz kiwi and the others were fine. If I monitored the temperature, then the look would have been awesome. It did leave a little frosting but the little I got is miniscule compared to other soy waxes I've used.

I used different amounts of drops to color, I use the high concentrated from candlwic and usually, I make up wax chunks to then use by weight, but haven't got this far with the soy. So far, 2 weeks in, the blue candle in direct sunlight has not faded a bit. which is a good sign for the uv i bought. But, I gotta put all of them in the sun once I"m done taking pictures.

As you can tell, I"m a scent hog because I firmly believe that is what will sell a candle and keep customers, that is why I like the freedom to go as high as 10% if I need to.

I used Archer Daniels 135 melt point w/ 5% palm stearic and 3% beeswax and was able to get 11% in and there is no bleeding whatsoever. The problem with this wax is in the mass producing. I have never seen uglier candles before in my life. They frosted something fierce and no matter how much I blended this damn stuff, it would at times turn out to look like, oh god, its hard to describe it, only it was like lumps of tumors and just plain gross. But, it held the scent. (Scent wasn't the factor, because it would do it without any scent).

Anyways, I'm keeping an Excel file of my work and will be willing to share the details. I too just ordered 50 more lbs and I hope to have it figured out with this batch. I should get it next week sometime.

It seems that we can not do a precise comparision because we will not be using the same scents, however, certain factors like bleeding and color holding can be assessed.

hagd

dave

[stacien]

I know Geekrunner worked with the particular wax a lot. He would be the one to ask. I haven't seen him on the boards much though. Maybe PM him and ask him. He has tested it quite a bit.

[geekrunner]

Just wondering what you all think of this wax. soycandle.com has it on sale for $29.99 (50 pound box) for limited time so thought I would order some if it's a good soy wax? TIA Cindy/WI

I've been busy with my mountain bike projects lately, and now that my four bikes are done, I'm getting ready to make about 30 or so to send to my brother who will try to sell for me to his friends and co-workers (candles, not bikes ).

The 444 is a nice wax, and doesn't need anything extra in it. It would be pretty close to a 415 with 2% USA added. If you haven't already decided on a wax, I would try it first simply for the ease and time savings. That price is very good, provided the shipping doesn't eat up the savings. You can pour it at about 135, and it needs at least a week to cure properly for best hot throw.

HTH! geek

[Cindy/WI]

Thanks geek, Shipping wasn't to bad to me. Total it cost me less than the C 3 I've been using. ? for you, what % of FO & wicks have you found work best for this wax?TIA Cindy/WI

I've been busy with my mountain bike projects lately, and now that my four bikes are done, I'm getting ready to make about 30 or so to send to my brother who will try to sell for me to his friends and co-workers (candles, not bikes ).

The 444 is a nice wax, and doesn't need anything extra in it. It would be pretty close to a 415 with 2% USA added. If you haven't already decided on a wax, I would try it first simply for the ease and time savings. That price is very good, provided the shipping doesn't eat up the savings. You can pour it at about 135, and it needs at least a week to cure properly for best hot throw.

HTH! geek

[Breanna]

I use the 444 and have not had any problems with beading or sweating. This wax for soy and containers is awesome. When they first came out with it, it did have some problems BUT they re-blended it and now I will NEVER switch. I love this wax.

[stacien]

Breanna I was just wondering does it frost? Is the throw as strong as the 415. What temp do you pour it at. I was having problems with the 464 because my house was always too cool and I couldn't get a perfect pouring temp. Jason posted that the scent load was higher with 444 than 415 would your nose tell you the same? I love 415 but when I am not doing creative stuff and want to just color it and pour I need something easier. I gave up on the 464 because it wasn't consistant with a lot of FO's.

[Breanna]

Breanna I was just wondering does it frost? Is the throw as strong as the 415. What temp do you pour it at. I was having problems with the 464 because my house was always too cool and I couldn't get a perfect pouring temp. Jason posted that the scent load was higher with 444 than 415 would your nose tell you the same? I love 415 but when I am not doing creative stuff and want to just color it and pour I need something easier. I gave up on the 464 because it wasn't consistant with a lot of FO's.

Hi Stacien, yes the 444 has a higher FO load then the 415. Since the 444 has been re-blended I have not had any problems with frosting at all and the tops look more creamier. I have a case of the 464 and I have also had problems with some of the fo's and the hot/cold throw isnt that great. I have poured my 444 anywhere from 130 to 160 and have had great success. I do not like to wait for my wax to get slushy to pour it and I do not want to have to add beeswax. I wanted a good soy blend and the 444 is the best for that. With coloring I use the pryme colors from www.barnloftcandles.com I also use powdered dyes. HTH:D

[stacien]

Thanks Breanna I will try and hunt down a sample. I like the 415 for making chunkies and swirling the dyes but I admit even I get impatient.