Can I....?

[lovebug7480]

Hey everyone, I think I found a recipe that I wanted to try from Millers Soap.com. This is the recipe:

Sherry's Fantastic Soap

24 oz canola

18 oz coconut oil

6 oz cocoa butter

6 oz castor oil

16 oz olive oil (pomace or pomace/olive blend is fine)

9.8 oz lye

21-23 oz water

Fragrance Oil or Essential Oil of choice

Temps: Water/Lye 105-110 degrees / Oils 110-115 degrees

I ran it through the calculator and I think it is already superfatted at 5%. Now I was wondering if at trace, I could add some shea butter? Or would that be too much superfatting? I guess I'm confused about discouting and superfatting. I will be doing the CPOP method and from what I read, lots of people seem to do a water discount. Would I do the 5% lye discount AND a water discount? I do want a short cure time, I really don't want to wait 4 to 6 weeks. So if this recipe is already at 5% discount, can I still add some shea butter at the end for extra moisturizing? I think I understand water and lye discount, but do you do both or just one? When you want to water discount, do you do that instead of a lye discount?? Sorry about all the questions, I am just in need of some clarification. Thanks very much everyone!

[RobinInOR]

Lye discount/superfatting is separate from water discounting.

When you take a "lye discount", like 5%, that means that you are leaving 5% of your oils as oils, they aren't turning into soap.

If you add oils that aren't part of your lye calculation, you're doing the same thing basically. There won't be enough lye to saponify the excess oils.

But, in CP, since saponification finishes up over a number of days, adding an oil at the end doesn't guarantee *that* oil stays oil and not soap. Plus sometimes you can overdo and kill your lather. It's just easier to add the shea into your recipe and maybe up the discount to 6-7%. However, there are lots of people who add oils at trace like that. Not a bad thing. Just another way of doing it.

HP on the other hand, you *can* add an oil at the end of the cook and hope that it sticks around as oil.

Water is separate - the less water, the quicker the cure. Calculate your lye first, then worry about how much water you want to use.

[lovebug7480]

So would you suggest I take 5% of another oil out, and add in 5% shea butter? It has to equal 100% I am assuming. Then say for example, if I took out...maybe 5% of the canola (I'm probably wrong with this) and added in 5% shea, would that make too soft a bar? What do you suggest I take out to add in the shea butter?

Also, how exactly do you calculate for water discount and how much do you generally discount for a recipe such as this? Thanks very much everyone!

[RobinInOR]

You've got the idea. If I wanted to add 5% shea to this recipe, I'd probably remove 5% of another hard oil, if I already have "enough" hard oils. You could do it a couple of different ways.

You've got about 34% hard oils (25% coconut, 9% cocoa butter). You might want more hard oils, so then I'd probably reduce canola by 5% and add the shea instead. That will give you a harder bar. OR

Some people don't like coconut that high. But many do. So another option is to reduce the coconut by 5% and add the 5% shea in.

Kinda have to experiment to see which turns out the best. and yes, you're right, oils need to add up to 100%

Same with the water. MMS shows 18-26 oz of water - a nice large range. Your numbers are nice and middle of the road, so anything within the 21-23 range will work fine. Use more if you're working with a FO that has spice, or is a white floral, use less if you've worked with the FO before and you know it "behaves"