'HASSLE FREE' hybrid.....

[Guest]

I all.  I am new to this forum, and new to candlemaking, and when I say 'new'- I mean just 2 weeks into it, lol. All of my friends & family love scented candles and we all spent so much $$ for holiday gifts, I came up with the genius idea of making them myself for everyone - figuring 'how hard could it be?'  lol...............little did i know. 

 

I purchased a starter kit from Candle Science via Amazon & it came with all I needed to get started.  I read up on lots of info, etc.  I was so excited when my kit came!! The wax is soy 464, wicks Eco 12, 8 oz tins (which i love) 4 scents, etc.  I also bought additional 4 scent sampler and color chips.

 

My first candles I made I used 1 oz. Lavender scent per 1 lb. soy 464 waxs, and Eco 12 wick.  I followed the directions to an absolute 'T'.  The wax poured great, set up great, no rough or bumpy tops, set really nice - the cold throw was AWESOME.  i did not add any color since i was using the tins.  The Candles Science video and instructions however, said to let them be for 24-48 hrs.  I let them set 3 days before I lit one.  I'm thinking all this time BOOYA!! first time making secented candles and I NAILED IT!!  Oh...my ignorance!!  I lit my first candle, melt pool was perfect...............but.............NO SCENT!! NONE!! Let it burn for about 3 hours. My boyfriend, God bless him, says to me when I was so disappointed it wasn't throwing hot , says 'hey honey, I can smell it when I put my nose up to it'. lol..... thanks sweetie, but can you smell it when you're over their couch surfing??? 

 

anywhoo- I read tons more and been on other forums to learn more, and now I am curing my candles for 2 weeks as suggested on this forum.  I also went to candles & supplies in Quakertown, PA (only a 20 min. drive for me) as I was wanting to switch to a parrafin/soy blend wax, because I want a wax that is really going to hold scent because I like obnoxiously strong candles.  I researched the 6006 and that was what I was intent on buying.  The woman I spoke to there - I told her I was new at it, used the soy 464, and then she said she was surprised i didn't get a really good hot throw with the 464 and said it was probably my wick - she ended up selling me Heinz CD 12 wicks, which I used this past weekend with the 464.  Also while there, she steered me away from the 6006 and suggested I try this 'Hassle Free' hybrid - I asked what the ratio of parrafin/soy was, and she said she didn't know - the mfg. doesn't disclose that. I thought there was some law that mfg.'s had to tell you wha't in their stuff, but apparantely not.  so, I have no idea the if its 72/25, 80/20. or any other combination!! So - I made candles yesterday using this hybrid wax, using 1 oz. of Carribean Teakwood, one of my favorite scents, using the Heinz CD12 wick.  They are curing.  I will come back hear & let everyone know how it does.

 

I understand how the SIZE of a wick can make a difference, but I don't understand how the TYPE of wick can make a difference in throwing hot scent, as both seemed like they are the same - the Heinz CD12 and the Eco 12.  But i did notice when I went on Candle Science website that they don't even sell the eco 12 wicks anymore.  so...maybe they put all of them into the 'starter kits' because they suck. 

 

Also - if everything goes well with the candles already made, I plan on buying more scents.  I am going to get some from Peak, but also a place called theflamingcandle.com, which I have not seen any reviews for anywhere.  Anybody?? 

 

sorry for such a long post.

[Guest OldGlory]

Your post made me giggle    God bless the boyfriend for trying to be supportive!

 

And welcome to candlemaking. It will make you crazy for a while and then one day you'll realize you've had some success, which will lead you down a path from which there is no return. Crazy can be good, right?

 

I happen to love 464, and I get an awesome hot throw from my candles. I use Premier wicks. I am a manufacturer/wholesaler (very small because I also work full time) and I have been using this wax, these wicks in 8 oz tins for many years and my client(s) love them. Let them sit for 2 weeks and then test them for fragrance throw. Also, there is a phenomenon called 'anosmia' which blunts your sense of smell when it is overwhelmed with fragrance. If you smoke or have a head cold it will be harder to smell the fragrance.

 

I would like to suggest that you go thru all of the postings in Vegetable wax candles, read them, take notes. There is a wealth of information in them. Maybe go thru the last year at first.

 

The one truth you need to be aware of is this: we all get slightly different results. Maybe there is one step we do differently, or 5 degrees in the temperature of the wax - you will see the variety of results when you read thru the posts. So be prepared to test, test, test for yourself. Find some friends or coworkers who can be objective testers and give them specific instructions about what qualities to look for and report back to you.

 

When you have questions, please include the wax you are using, the fragrance oil and where it came from, dye or no dye, how long you let the candle 'cure', to what temp. you heated the wax, at what temp you added the fragrance oil (FO), the type and size of your wick. Cram in as much detail as you can. Pictures help A LOT. Chances are that someone is familiar with your efforts and results and might be able to offer a suggestion or 2. And give it a week to get responses. Many of us work, some of us are here daily, some are not.

 

I forgot one other important factor: FOs are fickle beasts. Some work great in soy, some great in paraffin, some great in both, some great in neither. And, everyone has a slightly different ability to smell things. This is where you will see a lot of conflicting information. Again, be prepared to test for yourself and keep really good notes about wax, wick, FO, cure times, etc. It will save you time in the long run.

Edited January 19, 2015 by OldGlory

[Guest]

Yes, I read EVERYWHERE about frangrance oils, & its the most expensive component. 

 

I heated the 464 wax to 185 per the instructions, then I added the fo and removed from heat & stirred for 2-3 minutes, let cool to 135 and poured.  Like I said EXCELLENT cold throw, ZERO on the hot. 

 

Also - I did take note that certain fo's don't work with certain waxes, etc.  I looked on Candles Science's website & reviews of fo's with the soy ratings, and all the ones I got received 3 leaves for soy. 

 

What scents work best for you?  and also:

 

what temp do you melt it to?

 

what temp do you add fo?

 

what temp do you pour?

 

I personally do not like 'food' scents or fruity scents.  I like the herbals, florals, water scents. 

[Guest]

Sorry, forgot to ask:  has anybody here ever heard of or ordered scents from theflamingcandle.com?  They have a sampler special with some nice sounding scents I want to try.  I have not found any reviews anywhere and I scoured the internet.  They do have reviews on their website though.

[Jcandleattic]

Sorry, forgot to ask:  has anybody here ever heard of or ordered scents from theflamingcandle.com?  They have a sampler special with some nice sounding scents I want to try.  I have not found any reviews anywhere and I scoured the internet.  They do have reviews on their website though.

I've heard of them, and haven't heard anything negative. 

I haven't used them myself though... 

[Guest OldGlory]

I have used a lot of Aztec's FOs with success, but I do sometimes buy from other sources. There are numerous suggestions in the Fragrance discussion thread about the ones I like from Aztec.

I follow the manufacturers guidelines for temperatures.

I have not tried any Fragrance Buddy FOs.

Hope this helps.

[Guest]

I love the candle tins from Candle Science, but I am not liking the shipping costs at all!  Candle & supplies has the tins, but not the same - the ones from Candle Science have the roundish indent inside right in the middle where you put the wick, which is really helpful for me.

 

Old Glory: do you cure your candles in the tin for 2 weeks and do you leave the lids off? I didn't put the lids on. I have them on a low shelf.

[Guest OldGlory]

Yes, by the time my clients get their candles they have cured for 2 weeks. They get picked up at a store, returned to a distribution center, and then routed to the stores according to the purchase order. That takes almost a week.

I pour everything, let the cool, cap them the next day, and put them in a box. When I am all done pouring I go back and put the labels on them.

[Guest]

Ok, so I should put the lids on.  Thank you for being so helpul. 

 

Also - what do you find the best scents to be for the 464 wax?  My Egyptian Amber, which I LOVE , doesn't have a strong ct.  what are your and/or your customers' favorite scents?

[Guest]

Sorry Old Glory - another question/comment:  when I went to candles & supplies, the woman there also asked me if I was waiting to pour until the 464 'got slushy' - I said no, I wait until it becomes about like motor oi, which I read on a forum.  She recommends to those using 464 to wait until its slushy to pour.  I'm not sure why because I didn't ask, because I was on a tight schedule that day & they took forever to get my stuff from the warehouse. so I don't know if it matters for the way it sets up, throws fragrance, or burns nicer. 

Edited January 20, 2015 by Sojourner

[Guest OldGlory]

Do a search in the Fragrance discussion. I have listed what works for me there, as have other 464 users. My selection is very limited - the responses from the other 464 users will give you a broader selection. And don't forget, there are other variables involved - FOs are fickle beasts.

If you are happy with the appearance of the wax, don't worry about the pour temp. Do what works for you.

You are going to get a dozen different answers to most of your questions. Take it all in, but test for yourself. You will learn more about candlemaking by testing.

[Shoegal]

I use 464 and I do like it, but it can be very tough to work with. When I first started making candles, I followed the instructions  to a T. The first batch I made came out amazing. I used the cube jar and I could smell that sucker all over my house. I also thought, easy peasy! Nothing to this candlemaking. Why does everyone claim it's so difficult and you have to test, test, test? I got very cocky. I laughed at everything I read about how making a candle is a science and there are so many variables that go into making them.

 

The next day, I marched back into my kitchen and I made more candles. I waited when I burned it...hmph. Nada. Nothing. No scent throw. My mom said that if she leaned waaaaaay over into the candle, to where she almost dipped her nose in the wax, she could smell them. Outside of that...nah.  Candle Science has all of these videos and tutorial that make it seem very easy, but your testing will be never ending. Every container, every jar, every wick, every fragrance, you'll need to test it and then test it again and again and again. No one can give you the perfect formula, because it doesn't exist. You have to create the perfect forumula for yourself and the only way you'll be able to do that is to spend a lot of time (and even more money) to test everything.

 

I have tried the Egyptian Amber fragrance oil. I'm actually burning it right now and I'm getting a really good throw but, I do not add my fragrance at 185 and the ugliest candles I've ever made were poured at 135, so you just have to try a few different things and see what works for you. Make sure you check the leaf rating for the fragrance oils that you buy. I like strong candles, so I only buy the ones with the 3 leaf rating. Good luck!

[Guest]

Thanks all for your help!  Shoegal: lol, your experience reflects my own.  Yes - Candle Science DOES make it all sound so simple!!  I have not added fragrance at 185 except for the first 3 candles I made - even though the video showed her doing just that.  I turn off the heat and stir, and then add the frangrance.  I made 5 more candles last night to use up the remaining 464 wax and are curing - two of them are Nag Chamba, another fav scent of mine, using square glass jars which are lovely, and I added color for the first time. The other 3 i used the tins & no color.  They looked really nice this morning & smelled awesome before I left for work.  They ALL look nice & smell amazing, although my favorites Egyption Amber & Carribean Teakwood seem to have a weaker cold throw than the lavender & Nag Champa. I now have 14 candles total made - 11 using the 464 soy, 3 using the hassle-free hybrid.  Now its just waiting for curing, and praying they throw off stong scent. 

 

Old Glory: so sorry for being a bother - I did find the fragrance topic on this forum somewhere, but.............forgive me - i keep getting 'lost' on here because of so much info. and lots of topics/threads.

 

Shoegal: at what temp to you add your fragrance? and how much fragrance per pound do you use?

[Shoegal]

Ah Carribean Teakwood...That is another one of my favorite scents. Nag Champa as well. I also love their Day at the Spa and Oakmoss and Amber fragrances. I tend to shy away from typical kichen/baked scents, but their Cranberry Marmalade brings a little tear to my eye. LOL, I LOVE that one!

 

Now, I think I differ from a lot of advice given here, because I don't add my fragrance until the wax is more of a motor oil consistency and I pour just before slushie. I know "185" is the golden rule, but I get much better throw when I don't add my oil at that hot a temp. On the flip side of that, I have no idea what the actual temps are because I just eyeball it, so I'm probably not the best to give out specific instructions.

 

I also let my candles cure longer than 24-48 hours. I sometimes wait a month or two (gasp!), but two weeks minimum. I just try to let them cure as long as I can because one time, I made a Hydrangea candle in a little 6 oz 12 sided jar (I think CS has since discontinued them) and I had it lit upstairs in my bedroom and it had my entire 4 bedroom, 2 store home lit up! So, the longer the cure, the better.

 

You really do just have to experiment and see what combination rocks your world. That's part of the fun

[Guest]

Shoegal: I do the same as you - I wait to pour until its like motor oil, and just 'eyeball' it.  I also started waiting a bit to add the fragrance.  I've read on several sites a lot of others do this with successful results. 

 

I also do not like the bakery/fruity scents, love the ambers, teakwoods, nag champa, water/nature scents, most florals.  But I won't buy anymore fragrances until i see how the candles I made thus far turn out.  They are so expensive!  I want to be able to just use 1oz. per lb. with this new hybrid wax and I have 3 candles I made with it that are curing, so I have to wait. All of my candles in the tins burn really well, and 2 that I put in glass look & smell awesome cold!  no bubbles, no pits, no frosting or wet spots, nice & clean with smooth tops!  So, proud of my first effort on the glass ones, but have not burned those at all yet to test.

[Guest]

My results on the hassle-free:  much better hot throw than with the 464, but still not as strong as I'd like.  However, I do believe it has A LOT to do with the scents I am using.  I *think* if I'd use bakery scents in the 464, my candles would've thrown good, but I just don't prefer those scents. 

 

Another thing I tried in one batch of the hassle-free is, I threw in an unscentd, uncolored parrafin tealight in one pound, and, HOLY WOW - made a huge difference!  I wish I'd done this with ALL the candles I made, but I just am not yet experienced enough to have figured it out on my own - I read on here by others about mixing some paraffin, so thank you all for all your helpful things you post.

 

Using the soy 464: I never had a problem with how my candles looked or burned - buned nicely, evenly, never had any holes, or pitting, or rough tops like some say they experienced, my only, and biggest, problem was the hot throw, except for with the Nag Champs - that came out really good! Love it!

 

Using the hassle-free wax from C&S:  again, candles came out beautifully, even burn, smooth, but again - not as strong hot throw, but stronger than the straight 464. I also used more scent in this wax. There's just not enough parraffin in this wax for my liking, which I believe is the key to stronger scent.

 

So...going to try a different wax again and I'm thinking of the 4633.  I was originally going to go with the 6006.  Actually, even as i'm typing this, I'm still up in the air.  So frustrating, as I've read good things about both. 

 

In all but 3 of my candles I used the CD 12 wicks, in 8 oz. tins, and 2 I made in glass containers using CD 12 wicks. 

 

That's my review of the hassle-free - easy to use, candles come out great looking, burn great, just not strong enough scent for me.

[Guest]

also, regarding the IGI 4633, can anyone please help me with wick selection? I have CD12, and C&S recommends this as well as the zinc core wicks for this wax, but I'd rather hear from the experts on here who use this wax.  I would be using the max fo load in the wax, so I think that may make a difference.

 

thank you.

[MontanaMade]

First, Congrats on your new hobby, that is what I call it because its Exciting & Fun even after you realize its a LOT of Work & Oh Is It!!!

As for the 6006, I tried it and I will admit for a soy blend I thought it was Awesome! Be prepared that min. 2wk cure time you WILL want to go by if your going to use it. I had Excellent cold throw and half the ones I made I was SO excited to light I only let cure 48hrs, BAD Mistake on my part, I ended up so frustrated didn't bother to even try the others,(hadn't found this site yet) I switched waxes because I wanted a strong hot throw, after couple months of those candles sitting on the shelf my two daughters lit two of them in diff parts of our house and I was blown away by how great they were, I even double checked they were the 6006 ones because I thought no way they didn't smell that good lol

So I had about 4lbs left & I blended it with some pillar soy wax, those melts were amazing! I didn't go back to using it because my straight paraffin throws great with much less curing time, now though I still give it min a week, I would advise a few weeks to be safe with the 6006 & lids on, But 2wks bare min IF U Really want to learn how it performs. That's the key, u have to learn your wax, wicks & FO combos to such a T and u may make an amazing candle tomorrow think u have it down and few days later make a did:( its VERY frustrating!! What has kept me going for 7 months is that for everyone I screw up I learn something new & I also make amazing candles in between, the more time u invest the faster u will learn, but NO amount of warning can prepare you for the long process with EACH scent, there are Not many scents where using max fragrance in your wax does Anything except ruin your candle and waste your costly FO, sometimes less is actually Best for a strong beautiful candle, I made that mistake, went through TONS of FO fast, couldn't fig out problem cause just wanted super strong candles, some scents need as lit as 1/4oz a pound & Are still strong, truer to scent expectation, they are so concentrated ONLY research will be able to teach u that.

Great Luck To You!!

Hope You Have Awesome Hot Throw After Those Candles Cure:)

[Guest]

THank you for the kind reply, MontanaMade.  yes, I did learn on here about the cure time - a little too late on my first candles, though.  I went by what Candles Science said, and I just wish they'd be more honest about cure times.  I just make candles for myself, family, and friends, and I told them after I started how diffiuclt it is and tried explaining all the science around it.  Before starting this hobby, I had no idea about cure time - the 24-48 hrs. Candle Science said seemed reasonable, that is how ill-informed I was until Old Glory on here gave me the low down. 

 

The hassle-free wax: the woman at C&S said didn't need as long a cure time as the 100% soy, she said 5 days, but not really trusting that either.  I'm letting a bunch cure now till whenever, lol. 

 

thanks again all you forum members for your expert advice!!