MissMori

I ordered samples from here: http://www.carmiflavors.com/ What a MAJOR disappointment. I ordered guave, smells like nail polish remover; passion fruit, yeah there's some fruitiness to it, but smells more like chemical solvents; and sassafras, smells ok, I would characterize it as indifferent and weak oob.

My search continues for a supplier close enough to pick up orders a few times a year. I feel bad, quite a bit ungrateful, about putting them through the trouble of sending me samples and then disliking them so much.

Has anyone gotten anything they like from Carmi?

It's really a matter of taste and how strong you want the fragrance to be. Some eo's (citrus) are burned off by the cp process, others stick like stink on a dead dog. With others you have to be mindful of any adverse affects overdosing may have. For example, you wouldn't want to use more than 3 or 4 percent mint eo ppo, otherwise you will be wishing that your girlly parts would fall off.

By far, The Tank. Expensive, so don't faint. You can find it here: http://www.forcraftssake.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_8&products_id=20

HTH

Honestly if the raw ingredients go up, what alternative do the suppliers have but to raise the prices, unless they offset the loss somewhere else. And for me - I would rather have a supplier raise the price than bastardize the formula utilzing inferior ingredients to maintain the price.

Ditto.

Maybe I'm an FO snob, but I would prefer to pay $30 for an awesome FO than $20 for something mediocre. Every time I smelled the $20 FO, I would kick myself.

I took a candle making class before I started and I asked the same question. The instructor said you don't want to remelt too many times, maybe 3 or 4 is ok. Soy wax, all waxes in fact, are hard oils. Like any oil, with repeated heating, it will break down chemically and may begin to smell off and will not perform up to par. You also don't want to heat it too much higher than recommended by the manufacturer. Super heating will affect the wax in the same way.

Think of it as cooking oil. When you heat a cooking oil to the smoke point, you are changing it chemically and if you keep it around, you will notice that it goes rancid faster than oils that have not been used or heated to the smoke point.

But what do I know, I've only made 3 candles.

Speaking of paper, where do you get paper on the cheap? I've always used regular laser printer paper and printed my own cigar band labels. I'd like to start wrapping my round soaps (actually typed soup, hehe) in nice paper.

Wow! Those are beautiful, but PRICEY!

If the gel Wilton cake coloring (food dye) lists the ingredients, check first, but I don't see why not. I haven't looked at the label for the Wilton cake coloring, but have a funny feeling they are fd&c (Food, Drug & Cosmetic) dyes in a glycerin dispersal with something for preservative and to thicken the suspension. LabColors & Select Shades are fd&c and d&c dyes. The only concern is that the coloring contains something that either is not approved for use on the skin or would cause something funky to happen to the soap (seizing.) Someone else may disagree, but if you are making soap for personal use, go ahead. If you are going to market your soap, you may want to invest in something else.

I use fd&c, d&c dyes, oxides, ultra marines, micas, and some natural colorants.

List it according to the weight of the powder. The water used to make it into milk will already be accounted for when you list water on the label. You don't have to list water twice.

I would list as powdered goat's milk.

I always label in descending order according to weight.

Chuck,

I'm not a chemist, so I'm reporting what I've found through my own research.

Something else that may be effecting the soap is phenols in the oils. Some phenols are germicidal and used in formulating disinfectants. Interesting! I'm not sure if the phenols found in specific oils (olive for one) are assisting in preventing DOS. More research to do.

The stench will mellow with cure. I can't say it will completely go away. In soaps that I've made using goat's milk, without any eo or fo, there is a very slight odor do it after a good long cure. The lavender should mask it.

I've made a lot of soap. A LOT! Lye calculators will give you an idea about the properties of a finished soap, but they are not exact.

What are you looking for in the finished soap? Find oils that will give you those properties and go from there. Try different percentages and combinations of those oils. Tinker with the lye discount.

As a general rule, I have found that at least 40% saturated fats (coconut oil, pko, palm oil) will give you a hard bar. Some soap makers say 60%, but it really is a matter of personal preference. Olive is an unsaturated oil, but gives a rock hard bar when given a chance to cure for a long time. Avocado oil makes a hard bar as well.

What are YOU looking for in your soap? How patient are you? What is your budget? Once you figure that out, EXPERIMENT! Go crazy! Try lots of things, break the soap making "rules." How will you know what you like if you don't try lots of different things? You will probably hate some of the soap along the way, but you will learn a lot.

Go ahead and make the soap. If you don't like it, tinker with it.

Soap does improve with cure. That being said, what are you looking for in soap? Find oils that suit that purpose and go from there.

Thank you. I'm going to try it again with more color.

I made a candle 4 days ago using the following:

10oz Monticiano jar from GenWax

105 HTP wick

NatureWax C-3

UV inhibitor

1/4 orchid dye chip

8% Acai & Blackberry fo

The 2 candles I made prior to this had very good color saturation with the same amount of dye added. Nice subtle color in the melted wax in the pot. Upon cooling/drying the candle appeared not to be colored at all. Now 4 days later, the color has gotten a bit darker to be very, very subtle.

Question: As a soy candle cures, does the color become more pronounced?

That's not insanity. I can introduce you to insanity. Insanity is having 2 large Rubbermade totes, you know, the 33 gallon ones full of colorants. Why you ask? Manufacturers used to give away free samples.

I wasn't saying we couldn't use oils with short shelf lives. I was saying that you can formulate an awesome bar of soap using only fats & oils with a long shelf life. Cocoa butter... awesome in soap, long shelf life. Olive oil... awesome in soap, long shelf life. Experiment with oils that have a long shelf life and lye discounts/super fatting and you may find out you don't need oils with a short shelf life to give you the desire results you are looking for. Additionally, you may save $$$.

I'm relying on college chemistry taken over 20 years ago and my own research for this reply, so much slack is requested.

I think it's more complicated. It has to do with the chemical bonds of the fatty acid molecules prior to saponification and the chemical bonds of the resulting salts and alcohol (fatty acid salts and glycerin.) Saturated fats have only single bonds, unsaturated fats have at least one double bond along the fatty acid chain. More complicated, the resulting soap could also be affected by the location of the double bond of the unsaturated fatty acid chain.

The single chemical bonds are easier to break. When the NaOH molecule comes into contact with the single bonds of say coconut oil, it is easier for the NaOH to break the the fatty acid chain into the resulting fatty acid salts and glycerin, than it is for the NaOH to break the double bond of an unsaturated fat.

The double chemical bonds are harder to break. The NaOH will first break the saturated fatty acid chain where there are single chemical bonds. This uses up NaOH. Fewer of the double bonded unsaturated fatty acids will be made into fatty acid salts and glycerin.

This leaves the unsaturated fatty acids unsaponified. The double bond in the unsaturated fat reacts relatively easily with oxygen, causing it to become rancid.... DOS. I am not saying that all saturated fats will be saponified and no unsaturated fats will be saponified. I'm saying that there will be more unsaturated fats unsaponified, because of the double chemical bonds. The ratio I can't tell you.

This is why you tinker around with lye discounts. Use more lye and more of the unsaturated fats will be saponified, leaving fewer free to oxidize.

The resulting glycerin also comes into play. Glycerin is hygroscopic. It attracts water from the atmosphere. So, in your soap you have the soap, glycerin, and unsaponified unsaturated fats. The water the glycerin attracts is aiding in the oxidation of the unsaponified fats.

In addition to the above, I think there is something else going on. Yes, the chemical bonds, but also, do you really know the SAP value of every oil you are using? Is that "true" SAP value reflected in the lye calculator you are using? Most lye calculators use some rough average SAP value found somewhere, who knows where. I think to be "safe" most lye calculators are programmed with SAP values that will underestimate the amount of lye necessary to fully saponify a given oil. Do you test each of your oils for SAP value? They do change from manufacturer to manufacturer and year to year. How much? I don't know because I don't test my oils.

In a perfect chemical reaction, every fatty acid chain would be broken apart by the exact number of NaOH molecules, leaving no unsaponified oil and no extra NaOH molecules. This would be 0% superfat/0% lye discount. We don't do that. We want extra oil in our equation. We purposely use less NaOH than is necessary. So, factor this in with a lye calculator that already underestimates how much lye you need and you have perhaps too many unsaponified oils. Eventually, those oils will go rancid in the soap. How long? That I can't tell you. I've made castille soap that took 3 years to get DOS. I've made soap with walnut oil that got DOS is less than 2 months.

There was a reply saying humidity was causing DOS. We are probably talking about different sides of the same coin. I think it's not really the humidity, but the glycerin attracting water to the soap creating an environment for the unsaponified unsaturated fats to oxidize... that would be caused by the humidity. In a relatively "dry" environment would the same soap get DOS? I would say yes, given more time. This is where the shelf life of the oil comes into play.

Or perhaps not.

Rosemary Oil Extract, I'm also seen it listed as Rosemary Oleoresin.

How much honey are you planning to add? How big is your batch? What is your lye solution? 50/50?

Here's what I do... weigh out my water, set some aside for mixing with the honey. About the same amount of honey as water. I mix water with the honey to thin it out. I find it is easier to add at thin trace, rather than trying to add straight, thick honey.

Yes it is adding extra liquid to your soap, but depending on the size of the batch, the amount of honey, and how great your water discount (or strength of your lye solution) it may not matter.

I've found that when trying something new or when in doubt, pushing the envelope of what is possible has led to more failures than successes. I soap cautiously. First time I make a soap with a new ingredient, I step back from a deep water discount. This can help to avoid problems of acceleration, seizing, morphing of fragrances, super heating, etc.

That said, there are probably as many ways to make soap as their are soap makers. Part of learning is experimentation and failures. Whenever I've had a failed batch, I always thought of a way to do it better.

If you still have your electricity bills from before you began using the Presto pots, you can compare usage. You should be able to compare pre-Presto to post-Presto usage. My bill has kilowatt usage for the month compared to the same month the previous year.

Here's a link to calculate volume of a round mold, scroll down page... http://www.soap-making-essentials.com/wooden-soap-molds.html

I absolutely will. Although I have to figure out how to use paypal.

I'm waiting for my original order. I think it should be here by Wed or Thurs.

I'm looking at ordering around the 27th. We'll figure out the details.

I ordered on the 7th, but want to order again after I get my original order. I would be happy to place the order and split it to help everyone meet the minimum.

Yes I did. It was a belated birthday present from my husband. When he asks me what I want for my birthday, I almost always choose something for soap making, now it will be candles, or like fo's for both!