ProudMarineMom

WSP does not believe that you will be shopping elsewhere. They don't believe me. They think that forums have just a bandwagon mentality.

They need to not only consider current business but how it might affect future business.

Right now I am only a hobbyist and reading and learning everything I can from these forums. My orders are small at the moment. But what has started out as a hobby, has become a passion and, I hope, to a business in the future.

When that happens, which suppliers do you think I'm going to spend my money? I have had the opportunity to talk to Customer Service representatives at Candle Science, Natures Garden, and Peaks for various reasons. All three of these suppliers have answered questions and provided excellent service to someone who is a small fraction of their business. And I can tell you in the future, I hope to be able to give them more. There have been other suppliers, Candlemakers, LoneStar, Elements, Candle Chem and others that I have had good experiences with.

Those of us who are new to this craft rely on the experience, advice and referals from the very same people that post on these boards. If a supplier has negative feedback, regardless of the quality of the product they may sell, people will have a tendency to look elsewhere. Just ask someone who has stock in BP or Toyota

I have ordered from WSP. And, I do like some of their products. But, their prices are now quite expensive for a small hobbyist and I'm sorry to see that they seem to be ignoring the comments or want to chalk it up to "mob mentality".

Word of mouth, that's all it takes...

Hi Brittney,

Where in Georgia did you find a place that sells the soy wax? Do they have any other candle supplies? I've googled quite a bit and haven't really found anyplace in the state. Thanks!

J

Hi Brittany,

Welcome to the forum. You will find a wealth of knowledge and a lot of very nice, helpful people here. I know I was glad I stumbled onto the site.

As a fellow hobbyist in Georgia, I can tell you there isn't much in the way of candle supplies in the state. There is Southern Garden Sensations (aka Tony's) that is down Macon way. He has some very nice fragrances and a good price on shipping. I also found a place called BayouSome that mostly sells bottles and such, and they do have fragrances. But, their prices listed are for large volumes.

Nature's Garden is excellent, as is Candle Science and Mill Creek. You might get the best shipping rate on wax from Candle Science, they are also very nice and quick shipping. Other sites you might want to look at are Peaks Candle (Denver), Lonestar Candle (Texas), Elements Bath and Body, The Candlemakers Store, I could keep going.

If you click the Candlemaking & Home Scenting link, look for a topic at the top called General Candlemaking Discussions. In there at the top is a couple of stickies that will be helpful. The Helpful Link for Newbies has a link of the abbreviations of the suppliers that are used by the forum members. That is extremely helpful.

Also, if you have a question, it's a good possibility that question has been asked at some time. There is a search feature and you might get a gentle nudge from someone to remind you of that... But, it's not the most helpful search I've seen. Stella mentioned a better way to search in one of her posts using Google, and that method will give you better search results. The syntax is:

<search criteria> site:craftserver.com/forums

So, if you wanted to ask a question about wicking GB464, you can type something like this in the Google search box:

wicking gb464 site:craftserver.com/forums

I'll stop before I give you information overload. Have fun with your new obsession, I mean hobby!

J

It might be yes, I vaguely remember reading it was renamed, but I don't recall the original name. Already tried that one?

Just looked, yup that was it, Christmas Pines.

Top, I second what Jennifer said, thank you so much for the offer and I might take you up on that. However, I'm going to try your suggestion with the HTP wicks first since I do have quite a few of those.

I don't think I tried the HTP in the palm. Got some samples of CSN's along with the CD's and tried the LX's. My first container was with an ECO wick and haven't tried one of those since, no joy there. Probably should pour a few using the CSN's and HTP's and really pay attention.

With all of the reading I did on this site and elsewhere, it seemed like the CDN's were the 'be all end all' for palm so I don't think I gave the other wicks a fair chance. Was too caught up in trying to find the CDN's and probably convinced myself nothing else was going to work. Kinda like a kid, you want what you can't have...

I would like to thank you again for taking the time to answer both Jennifer and my questions, it is very appreciated. I also want to say thank you for the candle comparisons, burn tests, various other test results and candle data that you and others share with us on the board. For us noob's, well at least me anyway, it let's me know if I am on the right track, nowhere near it, or gives me ideas on something to try when I'm stuck. As the emoticon so eloquently says...

Thanks Top, always appreciate the information. I'll keep that in mind. I just saw your CD vs CDN burn comparison and it's nice to know I'm on the right track. I was getting the mushrooming and uneven melt pool in the soy with the CDN's and took those wicks out of my testing.

However, I have been trying to successfully wick some Dragon's Blood with the high side of liquid dye amounts and need a wick with a little more oomph. I have tried my Eco's, LX's, CD's and CDN's and not quite happy with any of them. For one of the containers I would like to try a step down from the CDN8, which is the smallest I have.

I have also been playing with the Glass Glow Palm wax and a couple of the containers are on the small side. Would be nice to test the smaller wicks. But, I'm not ready to buy them in the quantities that the big distributors want.

Might need to really look at the HTP's again and do some better comparison tests in the 464. Bought those for testing two or three soy waxes ago before I found the ECO's, which are my wick of choice at the moment. I remember the HTP's had a very nice curl and self-trim, just didn't like the HT with the wax I was using.

I've never made ornaments, but for wickless I do make soy tarts, fragrance burner oil and reed diffusers. One of my testers also likes the Pine scents.

I have tried several with good results and feedback but the one that she went crazy for is Rocky Mountains from Elements Bath and Body. She had a party and put a little of the fragrance oil in the burner. Everyone who came in the door commented on the fragrance and wanted to know where they could buy it.

Elements has also picked up Fragrance Oil Heaven's oils, which has a Pine scent. I haven't tried the FOH oils yet, but they have excellent reviews. That one is called Rock Mountain Christmas. Next on my list to try for my tester. Might be worth a look.

For the clear case tealights I always use CDN3s (33mm) and for the larger silver casing tealights I use CDN4s (33m). I've made 1000s of these and never had a problem, either non-scented or using various FOs.

Hope this helps with your tealight question :-)

Nadiap,

Can I ask where you are finding the smaller CDN's? I seem to find the CD's in that size, but not the CDN's. Right now, only place I really know of is Just By Nature, Bitter Creek and Candle Cocoon. Is there a site I'm missing? Inquiring minds want to know!!!

Sorry for the late reply, had family in for a visit last week.

I got the USA from The Candlemaker's Store. Just By Nature and a couple of others carry it as well. The reason I picked it up is because I got a batch of 464 that wasn't quite right. No matter what I did, it would never harden and looked like mashed potatoes. Even after a week. USA adds firmness to a candle and it does make a difference. Not convinced it really helps with scent throw but I do think it helps with smoothing out the tops.

Don't think USA will help frosting, but I could be wrong. That could be the dye, if you color your candles, or a dye/fragrance combination. I'm still pretty new at this as well and doing testing. I seem to get less frosting when I pour around 100 degrees. But, the tops aren't as nice. I get nicer tops at 115 degrees but sometimes get sinkholes. So, I'm still trying to learn a method that works best for me.

To help hot throw, I did try using Coconut Oil. But, I seemed to get more frosting and uneven tops, regardless of pour temp. Stopped using the CO until I can consistently make a candle I'm happy with. Sometimes I think I got it down and can make the same candle 2 or 3 times with good results. Then I make the fourth.... I think I need to pay more attention to the weather, we've had an unusual winter and early spring.

Not sure if that helps, just what I have learned in my limited experience. This forum has a lot of great information and some very nice and experienced people willing to help. You only need ask.... after searching the site for previous posts!

Ok, probably have a dumb question and I apologize. Either my brain is fried from being swamped at work or I'm just not thinking clearly. As a note, I use GB464, UV, USA and liquid dye in my candles.

I have a pretty good wick collection, Eco, LX, HTP, CD, CDN, CSN, Simply Soy and probably some others. For my testing so far I get the best HT from the Eco's. However, for some fragrances there are times when I need a wick that is in between two sizes.

So, my question is, with all of these wicks, how do you determine the comparable sizes among brands. Such as, what is the same size wick in an HTP for say an Eco 6. I have the links or downloaded the wick charts so i have a starting point for the container size, but I have no idea which wick is larger, smaller, etc. among the different brands.

What I want to be able to do is if an Eco 8 is too small and an Eco 10 too large, determine what is the next wick up from the other brands that may be in between the two. Do you have to look at the Yield/Roc chart and put wicks in order using that? Am I missing something, not making sense, C all of the above? I guess I haven't done enough testing to be well versed in how to size the wicks. And, I'm not sure what to read to help with that.

Top, if you happen to read this thread, your topic on Feather Palm testing has a good discussion on trying to find a good wick size and I must admit I'm a little lost. Have you guys figured out the progressions just by trial and error? (Beautiful feather palm pillar btw, I'm jealous...)

Can anybody point me in the right direction?? I have tried google searching the forum, but not hitting on the right keywords.

Thanks for your help and your time.

Looks like Wholesale Supplies Plus has their stock in as well.

And, Aztec did have it listed in the drop-down list box under the 5 lb Samples link...

Top, I think I see your point. There are so many variables involved that it's probably impossible to get a good controlled test of every wick. Since the characteristics of wax is fluid, meaning that one slab or batch of wax will always be different from another, even minutely, there is no way to determine accurate measurements. The charts just give the information on how each wick performed during that particular test.

So, the data is based on a specific test with a specific set of circumstances (as your first sentence states) and would probably yield different results when performed again, even if all of the same steps, equipment, etc was used. Because, a basic component of the test, in this case the wax, will never be exactly the same, which causes the wicks to behave differently.

Sorry, not trying to repeat what you said, just trying to get my thought processes where you are. I really need to try to understand (i.e. keep reading) on why a wick behaves a certain way, mushrooming, no bend, too much bend, etc., to have a better shot at troubleshooting these issues. I know most of these are from impurities in the additives, fragrances, or dyes that clog the wick. Just overwhelmed on what to do to fix it. Testing, testing and more testing... And then test again!

Can I ask a silly question? Can you use smaller containers, say like 6 oz, to test a wax, wick, dye, fo, additive combination until all the components are working together. Then take that data, obviously adjusting the percentages, and apply it to the larger container as a baseline to start testing? Or, is the nature of the beast that it might work fine in the smaller jar but may not play nice together in a larger jar. So, anything learned from the smaller container doesn't really help too much with the larger container.

Not trying for shortcuts. Just want to maybe work the kinks out with a smaller amount of wax before tackling a larger container. Minimize the amount of wax I use creating candles that only a mother could love. And, sometimes even then I want to disown them! I don't live near any candle suppliers and the shipping costs do get expensive.

Great Obsession, love that! Understand what you mean there...

I have some of the mason jars around the house and probably should make myself focus and test with those. Just get like a kid in a candy store and want to try everything. I'm thinking the smaller sizes would be better. I was trying to get the large apothecaries to work more for me because I do have a love affair with candles. Have them all of ther house. But you're right, would take for-ev-er to test!

I like the look but my decor isn't really country so stayed away from the canning jars. And for some reason, I don't like the threading at the top of the jar. Can't give you a good reason why, just hard-headed probably. Although, I did see those 8oz square mason jars and like those real well.

Love what Lonestar does with their containers on the site. It is so convenient and you know the measurements of the jar before you buy it. To continue my compulsion of wanting probably impossible to wick jars, I love the Interlude, Vibe, Roman and Whisper. Glass Supply Depot has those as well, along with Anchor's small Curve and Martello DOF. Can't seem to like a straight sided jar can I??!

I actually bought some Glass Glow a couple of weeks ago (I know figure out Soy first ) because I saw a pic of a candle and just fell in love with it. I poured a few containers and the CT is absolutely awsome. Now I need to find a wick that is the right size and has the scent throw I'm looking for. The first ones I did I remelted because I thought I didn't have enough wick. I started reading more on this forum and found out about Palm not needing a fmp and does look like it's tunneling. That's when I really started to notice the same advice for Soy. Learn something new every day. I've tried CSN, HTTP, RRD, LX and ECO wicks and haven't been much impressed so far. Waiting on some CD's and trying to find somebody that has CDN sample packs in stock.

Enjoy testing your layered Palm and try to contain your excitement over dusting. Maybe you should try something equally as thrilling, like vacuuming!!

Thank you Top and Stella, great info!! I really appreciate it.

:smiley2: Top - I was wondering if those numbers were actually meaningful or applicable to Soy. And, I should have realized it was a comparison test between the wicks as opposed to how it performs in wax. Newbie mistake.

Since I was trying to get the fmp on the first burn, that is exactly what I was seeing at the bottom, smoke and soot. So, I just need to make sure I'm comfortable with how the wick is performing, I'm getting the scent throw I want, the flame isn't too high or the container too hot. Need to work with it until you get the results you want, kinda like a recipe. I agree with the size of the container, especially since I don't want to double wick.

:smiley2: Stella - No problem with dissing me about the OCD. I once took vacation so I could clean the baseboards in my house. Ridiculous right? Working on it...

Thanks for covering the ROC, I appreciate the additional info. And, that the "fmp memory issue" really doesn't apply. Wonder why that seems to be so commonly stated on the web. Anyway, I can move on with life.

Agree on the jars. When I first started I bought a bunch of those 16 ounce apothecary jars. Hobby Lobby had them on sale for half price, looked like the YC containers. Then spent the next 2-3 months trying to get a wick to work. Wanted to single wick, but did try double wicking without much success either. Drove me absolutely crazy. So, bought different jars with smaller diameters and started to really read what I could find on the net. Getting a better feel for Soy. I think I should probably find a jar with straight sides that I like and test with that until I really understand how the wax and wick work together before using the shaped ones I seem to be drawn to (like wine glass shaped).

Again, thank you to both of you for your advice and patience with such a long post. Keep the hints and tips coming! Judy, USMC, thanks for the email and look forward to seeing you on the forum.

J

Hi all,

New to the forum and to Candlemaking. Started this as a hobby earlier this year because I couldn't afford my Yankee habit. Now I'm really enjoying this and trying to test and learn the right way to make a soy candle. So, probably investing more than what I was spending on tarts!! Anyway, finally found this forum and it has an overwhelming wealth of information.

From what I have read, I probably initially went about testing backwards but now I'm trying to tie everything together that I have learned. I have a wax (GW464), wicks (ECO's), and some good fragrance oils that I like, and a jumble of jars (I know, problem #1, need consistent containers, working on that). And, found a good pour temp. But, I really need to get some good test data on how the wick is performing. Thanks to Stella, Top and others, I've put together a form to track data, I already had my notebook, have some how-to's and other docs (did I mention I was anal?) And, being a Developer as my day job, I do understand the importance of testing.

So, my question is about ROC. I have the weights of the jars empty, full, weigh after each burn, etc., and calculate my hourly rates. The wick chart for ECO 12 wicks, for example, has a ROC of .28 ounces. Is that number what is optimal for that wick during each burn or do you take an average of all the rates after the burn test is complete? Is there an acceptable over/under percentage? Also, what exactly does the Pool Diameter mean on the chart?

Wick Yield ROC Flame Ht. Pool Dia.

Designation (yds./lb.) (oz./hr.) (in.) (in.)

ECO 12 262 0.28 2.2 2.9

Also, after reading some of the posts, I wonder if I've been working under a misconception. What I had read in other articles and forums, Soy Wax needed to obtain a full melt pool on the first burn because it has 'memory' and would continue to tunnel inward if a fmp did not happen intially. The advice I have seen here is that it's not necessary to have fmp on the first burn, slight hang up is ok, wick for the bottom of the jar and the wax should catch up. Is that the better approach?

Currently, my candles are just for friends and family but have had some people ask if they could buy one. Want to make sure the candles are safe before I do that. Sorry about the long post and thank you so much for any help. Still trying to get the hang of the forum/google search so I apologize if this has already been covered... :smiley2:

My three favorites (as well as my wonderful testers)

Black Canyon - Peak

Dragon's Blood - Tony's at Southern Garden Scents

Butt Naked - Natures Garden

Currently using 464 and just started testing with palm wax. Fortunately, I have a pretty good wick collection from all the testing I did with the soy!!

The Candlemakers Store (www.thecandlemakersstore.com) also sells wax by the 1, 5, 10 and 50 pound increments. He has Soy and Palm, as well as blends, paraffin and gel.

Hi, new to this forum and fairly new to candlemaking as well. We used to live in Central Florida, not too far from the Mouse, and moved to Georgia.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find much locally in Florida either. There was a company over in Sanford, Florida Soy Solutions, but they recently went out of business. Candle Science, Lone Star and Alabaster will probably have the best shipping rates for you for wax.

I have tried fragrance oils from quite a few places and have found the best fragrances (at least for me and the wax/wicks I use) from:

Southern Garden Scents - Georgia (east of Macon)

Candle Science - NC

Peak Candle Supply - CO

Natures Garden - OH

Elements Bath and Body - KY

Southern Garden Scents offers a 6 1-oz sampler pack with free shipping. And, if you join the email list from Peak, they periodically offer discounts on shipping.

HTH