GrandmaArial

The first is so soft and creamy looking! And the colors of the second... VIBRANT! You can tell this one was getting hard when you packed the mold, but still it looks good.

Sorry, I don’t use EOs at this time. Most of the people who use my soaps have health issues and are on medications that contradict many EOs. It is my choice to not use them until I have time to sit and study enough to make sure I am producing a product that is safe for my customer base.

I am NOT saying reasonable use of EOs isn’t safe for a healthy adult, just that for most of the people who like my soap it might not be. And yes, I know EOs are derived from the herbs I use, but the herbs have a much lower concentration and have flavanoids, vitamins, and esters that are lost in the distillation process. So it’s a trade off for me. Basically all I know about EOs is that basil EO should not be used by pregnant women. Limonene can cause photosensitivity, marjoram can act as a sedative, nutmeg is toxic at high levels even in cooking. Sorry, I didn’t mean to turn this into a lecture, but I don’t feel like getting jumped by people who use EOs quite safely in their products.

From what I have read EOs are treated much like FOs, just in lower concentrations. Apparently they hold up better in saponification and most seem to be less likely to cause discoloration or seizing in CP. I’m sure if you do a search on EOs you should get some good hits. Good luck.

I know chamomile and lavender go beautifully together as a friend asked for the combo on her doctors recommendation. I made it using a combination of infused oils and ground herbs. I also added some calendula to this batch, no other colors or scents. A very nice soap. Great for relaxing after a stressful day. It came out with a faint scent, golden brown with a very slight hint of lavender in color.

I have no doubt the herbs will come dried. From my experience, if you add the chamomile directly to the soap make sure it is ground very finely. If not it can become very scratchy. I also think it is wise to finely grind lavender too, as most herbs (and lavender is one) will turn black in the soap and whole lavender buds come out looking (as was best described to me by someone) like “rat turds”. I have not used arnica so can’t give any input on it. But I have found that often some of the oddest sounding combos have made very nice soap. You won’t know if you don’t try. A hint… do let these have a week or two to really get dry before packing. The addition of the botanicals can leave your soap open to mold if it is at all moist if you use more than trace amounts. I haven’t had any problems, but I cure my soap in a “closet” with a dehumidifier and a fan for air circulation. I have read of others who have had the problem. Yes, I know you are doing HP but even HP has a little excess moisture when first made.

You have given me an idea… the anti inflammatory properties of the arnica in a salt bar (which I have found to be very helpful with arthritis) could be a winner.

I have a tendency to do things my own way… others most likely will do things differently. With luck there will be lots of feedback for this (and I’ll learn something too).

I haven’t added vegetables to HP but you can substitute the juice for all or part of the water with CP, no reason you can’t do the same with HP. I have read recipes that recommend adding purée at trace both for HP and CP, about 1 tbs/ppo. I wouldn’t discount the water with HP, I think any excess moisture with such a small amount will cook out, though it will probably be softer at first than usual. The fiber in the vegetables changes the texture of the soap. Give it a few days to dry out. Adding herbs to it easy enough. You can grind dry herbs up to a powder and add at trace. You can also infuse oils with herbs and use the infused oils to make the soap. I always use olive oil to infuse herbs into. That’s my preference. Any stable oil will work. I use the double boiler method, but be aware over heating can destroy the good stuff in the herbs, gentle heat! Just dump as much herb in the oil as you want (or can fit). Bring the water to a bare simmer and warm the oil. I will bring the water to simmer several times over a couple days if need be until the oils gets the smell I want. I cover the pot and let sit between simmering, don’t just leave it sitting cooking. It will more than likely over heat. You can also put the herbs in a jar with the oil and set someplace warm and ignore. This takes longer, up to 6 weeks. If you use this method I recommend keeping the jar tightly covered and use a glass jar only and avoid sunlight (which like heat can destroy the goodies in the herbs). If you want to set it in the sun used colored glass, or clear if you’re not concerned about saving the flavonoids and esters. Drain with a cheesecloth. Just use this infused oil as some of your base oil.

Note that the scent from the herbs will not survive well in soap using this method. I can perceive a bare hit in the finished product, and I have a strong sense of smell. I do think the qualities survive at least to a point though as people comment on the different qualities of the soaps I make with different herbs.

Welcome to the swap. And have fun with this. It is not a test. push your envelope, experiment, but most of all have fun.

I wish mine looked as rough as yours! Lovely swirls!

I got foamer bottles… and THANK YOU to everyone who encouraged me to get them. I really thought they were just a gimmick for people who like to feel fancy, but it’s GREAT! The LS comes out with a head start on the lather… add a little water and voila! My mediocre lather is suddenly GREAT! OK… I’m on the foamer band wagon!

Those are beautiful. I know you wanted it darker, but I think it's perfect. those swirls... remind me of when you mix the cocoa into milk to make hot cocoa. Really charming.

CareBear, I understand the concerns. I defiantly see that SS is jumping faster than looking. I am concerned… but attacking them for not curing HP? I have read several posts by experienced soapers when I first started reading these boards say they sell HP the next day. No one attacked them. So why use it as an excuse to attack SS? It looks to me as simply an excuse to attack.

I have a problem with the degrading remarks made not the concern expressed. If SS is just posting to stir the pot… then why respond? You’re giving them what they want. If they really are young and foolish… insulting them isn’t going to change anything, they obviously are going to do it their way. Insults are not communication, though I know many people who seem to get a sense of power and think they look witty when they insult someone. The ability to hurt others is a kind of power. Obviously it isn’t hurting SS, or they are hiding it well. So all it does it make the people posting here look… unpleasant.

You and I have butted heads a couple times. We were able to communicate; we didn’t need to get snide and demeaning. We still don’t agree on some things, mostly because I think we both realize neither of us can force the other to do it our way. So fine. It’s over and we can be civil to each other. I’m not pretending I’m perfect. Fairly often I have read a post, that even as a newbie I know is foolish and mutter something like “idiot” as I close the window. And yes, there was a thread where a person tried to insult me and I responded in kind. I don’t justify my response. I’m human and can act the fool like anyone else. But I know if I had read threads like this when I first came here I would have run away. It is simply not what I expect of this board.

If SS doesn’t want advice then none of us need offer it. If they are just playing head games to upset people we feed it by jumping (and a lot of control we give them, to let someone on a forum get us so upset, I’m not willing to hand that much control over to anyone). Ultimately no one can say anything that will force someone to do it their way.

Basically I am voicing my opinion on how some have responded here. I have tried to do it with out getting personal or demeaning. If I offend someone, well, sorry. Ok, not really. If someone is taking it personally then maybe you should look at your own behavior, because if you really feel justified in name calling then my opinion shouldn’t bother you.

In the time I’ve been trying to word my feelings on this there have been several responses… I am not complaining about people voicing concerns, but how a select few have chosen to voice those concerns. That is all. We all have a right to our opinions and to voice those opinions. That is how I feel… as this is not my board then it seems people also have a right to insult if they see fit. All I’m doing is voicing my opinion.

On the laundry soap, we each have our opinions on this, too. It is not something I would do; it just seemed to me that that particular opinion was expressed in a less that constructive way, but rather to make a joke out of someone. That is what bothers me and I apologize for not expressing myself better on that point. On that note we have a rather popular hand craft store here where I live, that sells what I know to be MP soap nicely scented and colored as "hand made thr old fashioned way" (implying it to be from scratch CP or HP soap, but reading the label it is easy to realize it has several synthetic ingredients, not the all vegetable product they are advertising). People do it. Can anyone stop them? I giggle every time I see someone buying it and so pleased thinking they just bought “real” soap. When I use MP I clearly label it as such. To not do so feels dishonest to me. I could stand there and scream and yell about it but what will it accomplish? People are going to do what they are going to do. And guess what? Some people I know who used to buy (some still do as guest soap, its very pretty) that soap buy my soap now for daily use. All they had to do was try a sample.

Ok… I got to jump in.

I seldom make HP, which is what SS says they did in the first post. Now, unless something changed, HP is supposedly ready for use as soon as it’s cut. I admit when I do HP I like to let it set a week before using it. It’s just nicer, but I have read many here who have said they sell their HP the day after it’s made. So why should SS have to let theirs cure?

Laundry soap? ok, not my idea of “hand made soap” but how many people buy lotion bases, add fragrance and sell it as home made? Is there a difference?

I do think you are moving a bit fast SS. However, I don’t have any problem with anyone “selling” their soaps as they learn to family and friends to cover the cost of supplies. This is a very expensive hobby and as long as the family and friends understand you are still new there shouldn’t be a problem. And at that price, well, that’s about all SS is getting.

On the subject of insurance, SS, I do hope you talk to your parents about it before you sell to the general public. Some people can be lawsuit crazy, and even if you make perfect soap they can claim it gave them a rash and sue you. They don’t need proof, of either a rash or that your soap caused it to file suit. Even if they loose you will be paying attorney and court costs. Homeowners insurance will usually cover any accidents that happen in the home, but I don’t believe any homeowners insurance will cover liability. It is, of course, up to you. I would hate to hear of you being hit by a frivolous lawsuit and your parent’s loosing everything because of it.

As for substandard product… who knows, maybe SS lucked onto a really great recipe right off. Or maybe it is only mediocre compared to other hand soap. Either way it is no doubt better than commercial soap. If it is only mediocre SS will no doubt figure that out, or fail at marketing them. This is simple, people who are drawn (in my experience) to hand made soap will be buying it from other sources as well, and will keep buying the better soap. If SS produces and sells a lye heavy batch then will be out of business and in debt fast no doubt. Making soap (and candles) is not rocket science. As long as people understand the risks with lye, it’s really no different than baking a cake from scratch. We start with someone else’s recipe and tweak and adjust to make it our own. With three batches I doubt SS has had much chance to do much tweaking, and with time will see the difference.

Personally I agree with CareBear about a young getting involved in soap and/or candles, or any other small business venture. I see far too many who sit and expect mom and dad to just keep buying them everything their little hearts can desire. My experience with young people is also… well… they don’t like to learn from other’s experience. The old joke about teenagers who think they know it all… reality. Most have to bang their heads against a wall for awhile before they figure out that someone with experience was right. In my experience it’s easiest to just wait til they get a headache and are ready to listen. No need to become derogatory or demeaning. And personally… when someone demeans me… I tend to ignore anything they have to say, even if I think they may be right about something.

Some of the posts in this thread bother me, a lot more than the idea of a young person potentially making a serious mistake, moving to fast. I have learned to love this board for the support and advice so many are willing to share. I hate to see posts that attack and demean someone. I do not argue anyone’s right to express their opinion, I am disappointed in how some choose to express it. It is simply not inline with my over all experience here. I think I will choose to ignore this thread from now on. I have no doubt there will be some who will take this personally and decide to “get even”. The really great thing about forums, so easy to ignore people you don’t like.

That's some mighty Pretty Goat Soap! Mine went orange, then insisted on gelling in the fridge. I give up... I can not not gel... But you'rs is pretty.

I can’t "feel" the salt in my salt bars either, or the one Donna sent me. It just gets very smooth and glides over the skin so nice. Where I "feel" it is afterwards... It's no miracle but really helps with the arthritis. I wish I could use it every night with out drying my skin out to badly.

...Grandma, you can dilute after a week if you insulate your bucket well...

I have my bucket in front of the furnace vent... I was wondering if a week would be enough with all the heat pouring out of it. But I made myself wait... Next batch I won't! Thank you.

I have never been too thrilled with liquid soaps, commercial or natural. Dove liquid soap is nicer looking, and thicker, and has gobs of lather, you can get that with the addition of hydrocarbon surfactants and thickeners. The problem with them is they mess my skin up and tend to weaken my immune system. But then so do commercial bar soaps. Oil of Olay is the gentlest I found but even with it I had to limit my exposure to it. I’m telling you… it’s HARD to not be able to bath every day. Of course I expose myself to detergents every day, washing dishes, doing laundry, cleaning house … Although I started this because people are requesting it my personal goal is to find a not excessively expensive recipe I can use in general house cleaning and the dishes. Will I find one I like? Who knows? But won’t find out if I don’t try.

I can’t imagine enjoying watching your soap blowing up in the pot! LOL. To much drama for me, LOL. The goat’s milk LS looks like it’s going to be much nicer than the first batch, slightly better lather, slightly thicker and much better skin feel than this first batch. My only complaint is the appearance… which looks rather like strong coffee with a little creamer added.

Thanks for the tip on the cherry kernel oil, I’ll order some. I may order some foamer bottles to try out too.

If your recipe has 9 or less oils you can use soapcalc 9 WP. It has made me lazy, but you can switch back and forth between weights and percentages.

Thank you all. As I said, for a first try… it’s ok.

This will never replace CPBS for me. Though similar in many ways (if you use thesoapersworkshop’s directions, I do not find it as satisfying. No instant gratification, even with the HP method (how this batch was done). You still have to sequester… and spending all day watching the pot… I doubt I’ll ever do the HPLS method again. With CPBS you can cut your soap in 24 to 48 hours and know at least what it’s going to look like. With the LS you just have to keep waiting, and waiting, and waiting… also you can’t super fat like you can (must do) with bar soap unless you use sulfonated castor oil. I guess I need to find a source for it.

As most of the scent and much of the qualities I like about my bar soap comes from infused oils and herbs I am finding this LS less than I want in soap. I read that you can use teas to infuse herbs into LS, and tried it, but I really think that everything brought into the soap by the tea was lost in the cream or the solids that settled. I am also wondering how stable this will be with the teas. Am I going to have mold in a few months? Time will tell.

The CPLS method is actually easier than CPBS. No molds to mess with. And less clean up. I made it in the same bucket it cured in. The KOH is easier to deal with than NaOH. As long as you’re ready for the grinding sound of it when you stir, which is nothing more than the flakes grinding against each other. Nothing to fear. The hard part is the waiting. Two to three weeks before you can dilute. I am diluting it a little every day to find the right level. I suspect that like SAP the amount of water any individual oil will take to properly dilute varies. With practice I have no doubt I will learn how to produce an acceptable liquid soap. I am not thrilled with this first batch, but I wasn’t thrilled with my first batch of CP (and have yet to be thrilled with my HP). Everything comes with a learning curve; life itself is a learning process. I will get this down, I will learn to make an acceptable LS. Will it replace CP for me… I greatly doubt it. But people keep requesting it so I will make it. I guess I should get some pretty bottles.

With no USFDA rating I guess it was packaged under EU authority. The laws concerning this confuse me. I know that under certain conditions a company can be given permission to be almost like a little embassy in regards to the laws regulating labeling. In this case “100% Olive Oil” means it is made from a blend, probably virgin and refined olive oil. Still all olive oil, just different grades. This kind of oil is usually made from lower quality olives. Not as nice to cook with, especially if you want a traditional taste (you wouldn’t want to serve this oil to an Italian with feta or bread) but would still make great soap. I was surprised when I saw the title of this thread; since, with all the antioxidants it contains, I think the shelf life of olive oil is about 100 years. Ok, that’s an exaggeration, but it is very stable. A year and half ago, while cleaning out the kitchen (getting ready to pull out the old cabinets) we found a bottle of olive oil that had been opened 3 ½ years earlier. Still good. We used it that year for the feast of the seven fishes. Well, unless it’s exposed to high temperatures (above 250F I think, may be higher) or contaminated (as in from cooking). Do you know 3 ½ oz of olive oil contains a full days recommended allowance of vitamin E? Also vitamin A and about 8 other classes of antioxidants. Why it makes such glorious soap, and why it cures so slowly.

Ok, I guess I have waxed lyrical on olive oil long enough. Enough to know olive oil is good both for your insides and outsides. And to think 30 years ago some people wanted to outlaw it in the country…

If your tap water is hard the salts and minerals could affect the lather, and cause your soap to have a lot of scum. It all depends on how hard and what minerals and salts are in it.

The words “extra virgin” and “virgin” are meaningless when it comes to olive oil packaged here in the US. The USDA classifications of olive oil are "Fancy", "Choice", "Standard", and "Substandard". Packagers like to add “extra virgin” to the lable to jack the price up, but it can be any grade of oil. I believe that Italy (being a member of the International Olive Oil Council) requires any package labled “olive oil” to be pure olive oil. If the oil was imported from Italy then packaged here it could be a blend, though I thought it was requred to declare that on the front lable. If it was packaged in Italy then imported it would be pure olive oil. As quiet girl didn’t indicate there is anything wrong with the soap it’s self, it’s just the smell that’s off (which a blend wouldn't have affected) I would guess it’s pure oilive oil. I am wondering if it could be refined grade oil, which in Italy often has artificial flavors added to make it taste like virgin olive oil. I wonder if the flaverings could have messed with the FO.

For a first try.. ok I guess. I diluted to much, it's thin, and to much coconut. It's very drying. Lather is ok, not great, just ok. I know I need to lower my fat ratio, got more "cream" than soap. So I learned a lot. Not exactly opaque but far from translucent, I guess it's ok. The yea I used to dilue with... I don't like the smell now. It's not sour or anything, just not as nice as it smells when it's brewing in water. I will probabaly add some kind of scent to it.

I have started diuteing the second batch, which I used goats milk in.

Wow... if that tastes... ummm... smells as good as it looks you have a winner!

Olive oil produced for American tastes tends to be much milder than that produced for European tastes. In my experience (as my husband is of Italian decent we eat a lot of Italian olive oil) Italian olive oil (especially the extra virgin) tends to be on the bitter side, almost acidic tasting. I have been assured that this does not affect the SAP of the oil.

That is some beautiful soap. Kitty looks nice, too.

Pretty soaps! I particulary like the pumkin soap. Very atractive!

This is what I have been waiting for! Those look great. I am collecting Pringles cans now to attempt round bars (hubby keeps throwing them out saying they are trash. He seems to think I keep buying them because I like to eat the chips). Also paper towel tubes. Maybe make something a little fancy for the family for Christmas gifts.

In the top picture of the cut slices… second row, third from the left, and down one row, second from left. They look like you painted flowers on them! I love them!

That’s a hard one. I have learned a lot from people here, and received a tremendous amount of encouragement. But inspiration… that’s different. Each type of soap I have come up with has a story behind it. What I would term the inspiration. Recently as I was assembling supplies and planning an experiment with soy wax and tomato, trying to think of something new to try with herbs… Donna inspired me to combine chai tea with rose petals with her love of Earl Grey and Lady Grey teas. BTW Donna, I really think this is going to be your scent, at least the scent of it. Of course you’ll want it a wee bit stronger than I make it, LOL. Jaybyrd’s crazy carrot soap inspired the 24 carrot soap I make. I had a dream about it… I had to try and it worked. Thank you Jaybyrd. Most of my creations have been inspired by memories though, from my childhood. An attempt to capture the essences of these memories.

I would have to say I have been inspired by people here though. Although I know I will never be able to make the beautiful colorful creations produced by people like euginia, Meredith, Scented, Donna, Gerry, and others, looking at the pictures, reading the results of peoples attempts with different recipes inspires me to keep striving to improve my product. To keep trying different oils and butters and combinations, different herbs and spices and even different techniques.

As jbren says, what ever we do it no doubt has been done before, but not quite the same I think. We each have differing qualities we look for in soap, so our recipes are different. That’s one of the things I really like about this board, the way we as newbies are encouraged to develop our own recipes to fit what we are looking for in our quest for the perfect soap. Yes… I would say that was inspiration… when I would ask “will this work” and someone would say “try it and find out”. That encouragement inspires me to try, to push the envelope, to test my own insecurities to fail, and fail I have at times. But the successes more than make up for the failures.

And Donna, thank you but if I have inspired you at all it is to look inside yourself to find what you want your soap to be. Your soap is just… so you. Do not tone down the scent for me, your soap is glorious as it is. The proof is in the pudding, your customers love it.

I think the cheap strips are just so innacurate that they give a completely false sense of a soap's pH level. A better test would be washing your hands or, better still, your face with a scrap of the soap in question.

On another list a soaper reported that her soaps consistently tested in the range of 5.5 to 7.5 using pH strips. When she sent some bars to a lab for testing, she found out the pH was actually 10.3. If the strips give such low readings for soap that's really 10 or so, what are they going to show for soap that's really 12? Maybe 8? Still looks good on the strip, but probably not what you'd want to use on your skin.

The pricy strips that are more accurate for testing soap are available at http://www.soapimpressions.com for $16 per 100. If you really want to know the pH of your soap, though, you'll need a pH meter and calibration solutions at 7 and 10 pH. (Calibrating the meter with only pH 7 solution will give false low readings.) I've done some pH testing in the past but haven't bothered with it for a long time; I just test my soaps by using them.

An interesting side note from when I was testing: I bought a bar of a nationally marketed goat milk soap that claimed a neutral pH, just for testing purposes. It tested at something like 10.2 -- not exactly neutral. I guess they tested with pH strips instead of a meter.

That is why I said to test using pheno to get a feel for the true reading. It takes some practice, but using consistent methods will give consistent results. The person who’s soap was testing at 5.5… I have no idea how she was getting that. My only guess is her water was acidic. I should have mentioned that you should test your water; we have a purification unit so I know our water tests neutral. I forget that most people aren’t that fortunate.

Find the right water to soap ratio for the solution. Start off with a thick slurry and keep diluting it and testing until you get the strongest reaction. When it starts going down you have peaked. Once you know the ratio just use that ratio. To low, of course, means you’re testing the water. To high the surfactant traps the reactive so you are effectively testing the water. And test against known samples. The one thing commercial soaps are good for in my opinion, LOL. Pick up a bar of dial or what ever, probably best to try a couple different brands and test your soap against them. The surfactants in detergents act the same for real soap when it comes to testing for PH. Make note of the color, and that is the color you need to test for, not what it says on the chart. When you have these things down it’s easy. For myself I drop a bead of soap in a test tube and add about 2 times water and swirl for a moment. Litmus paper seems to read about 1 to 1 .5 points low compared to other testing methods the way I do it so I look for a reading below 8. If it tests to high you can always use it for hand soap or laundry soap.

I agree that ideally all soap should be tested by the soaper. But I don’t think washing your hands with it at the sink will do the job. My hands are tough. I used to use ammonia (before the new kitchen which we can’t use alkalis on the counters or grout) with no ill effects, well, on my skin. No way would I want to try bathing with anything with a PH above 11 (I believe ammonia tests around 11.4 to 11.5). And I would never expose my eyes to anything I don't know to be safe. So I test first.

Thank you for the link for the high range strips. That’s not the brand I had, the box had a red label. I would assume this brand has the same accuracy, so would be worth the investment to get your base readings on the litmus paper, Deb, IMHO. Up to you. It’s all a matter of personal choice. If it is a waste of time and money, then it is our time and money to waste.