Auntjulie

10 hours ago, Gary in Canada said:

Im curious, as I'm sure others are too....how did your show go on the 23rd...or did it not go??

Thank you for asking! It went pretty well, in as I learned a LOT😉 I made tiny 2oz tins with the C3 wax and only 1 fragrance in the 8 oz tin that I tested all other candles were with my CBadvanced wax. But I didn’t sell many candles 🙁 I sold a few candle melts and warmers though. I think I priced the candles too high?  All in all I made enough to pay for the booth but I had fun after all the hard work and I know what I would do differently now😊

14 hours ago, ErronB said:

Problend 600 from The Flaming Candle is quite a nice parasoy, but like all the others the HT isn't amazing, Joywax was probably the easiest to wick and work with for me but it had a weird smell I couldn't take after a while.

 

Like TallTayl said above, it's hard to beat 4627 for HT, and it doesn't need long cure times.

Has anyone had a bad experience with the 4627 having a burnt smell?  I read a lot of really good reviews about this wax, but the newer reviews are experiencing a burnt smell to the wax and I am wondering if they have changed their wax recently like all the soy waxes?

7 hours ago, TallTayl said:

For ease and hot throw, it’s hard to beat igi 4627.  Looks like vaseline but it ticks all of your boxes.

igi4630 is my next pick. It is slightly harder, but also wicks easily, 

what’s nice about Both of these paraffins is that they solve a load of issues people have with soy waxes.  10-20% of either of these with a naughty soy makes a gorgeous candle with smoother surfaces, easier wicking, better overall burn. 

igi 4786 is ok, but I can’t get last the wickedly high flames at the start of the burn. It works brilliantly with beeswax at about 5050 though. 
 

I made my living with C3 and 20% paraffin for years. that blend made a great candle at the time. People LOVE a good candle. (The paraffin I started with in that blend was J233. The company sold and the wax became harder to get and inconsistent so I switched.). 

So as far as using the crappy (IMO) C3 now a days :-)  would you suggest mixing with paraffin or naked soy? and would you suggest 20% of either, or a different percent of naked soy?  I am just trying to use this 100lb box I still cant' believe I ordered without testing a smaller sample !

13 hours ago, TallTayl said:

Double wicking tins is super challenging.  Depending on your placement of the wicks double-wicking “might” work, but the tin is a tin and will likely give you a super deep to totally liquid candle in short order just because smaller wicks generate enough heat to burn the wax, but not enough draw to use it as fuel.  The balance is usually off. 
 

it is worth a try just for the academic perspective. See what happens to your particular candle and take good notes.

 

spacing makes a lot of difference. Some people divide the candle into imaginary thirds. Some put them very close together with tabs touching or even overlapping. Some wing it. Give it a whirl knowing your spacing experiment can yield very different results each time based on where they are. 

thank you for that, I think I will hold off on that academic experiment for when I have more time, I may be giving up on the C3 and trying a tottaly different blend, I had no idea there were so many options!   I need to consider more carefully before choosing! Is there a way to offer wax for sale on this site, or is that prohibited? I have a 50lb case still, but I don't believe I will even be opening it :-)

10 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

C3 is a nice wax, usually.  Sometimes I think it all gets unevenly mixed and we get super hard product. A little extra midwest soy wax To dilute it usually helps in my case. 

I just googled emulsifiers & lecithin, wow, I'm just not there yet, this is so much to learn, I don't know how you do it!!!  I googled midwest soy too and it looks so much better than C3!! and cheaper!! Is this the "naked" wax you talked about?  so would this be a replacement for C3 to use by itself or is it a base to be mixed with the C3?  I noticed you can add up 12% fragrance!   oh I had no idea there is soo many different soy waxes out there! it makes my head hurt! and I am terrible with making decisions ha ha! 🙂 please know I really appreciate all the advice you have given me 🙂

5 hours ago, TallTayl said:

Cd do come smaller, you just may not find them in small quantities from typical retailers.  I have purchased cd 2 and cd3 from places like candlewic.

 

if you need smaller sizes, you can also try CSN or cdn.  Both are slightly smaller than cd in similar numbers so the stuff you’ve learned translated pretty quickly. 

thank you!  I like candlewic's FO, I will get some smaller cd's, what are your thoughts on double wicking the 8 oz tins? like if I find the correct wick for these 3 fragrances in the 2oz tins, wouldn't two of them work for the larger tins?  I''m thinking with the 2 oz tins being about 1.5 inches, that 2 wicks will burn about 3" wide in the larger tins?

5 hours ago, TallTayl said:

C3 has an emulsifier that likes to bubble.  One case I bought looked like champagne In the melter it was so bubbly. All I did was let it heat up, stir to release as much as possible,  let it cool, then reheated the wax and poured like normal. 
 

stir gently and pour gently to minimize air introduced to the candle. 
 

when I was messing with plain naked soy and emulsifiers, lecithin behaved a lot like C3 as far as color, scent and BUBBLES. 

ok now all that is over my head 🙂 emulsifiers and lecithin, I don't know how you know all this!! it's incredible all this scientific stuff, but I love to learn!  I will have to google emulsifiers and lecithin, so I will definitely heat and reheat my wax!! I am beginning to wonder what possessed me to get C3!

32 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

The smaller the container, the harder it will be to wick.  They just get too hot too fast. 
 

the reverse is true too. Giant containers are difficult to wick, but for other reasons. 
 

Kerven is on the right track with votive sizes. Cd can be purchased smaller, as well as HTP, lx, etc. 

 

as for the “memory”, hogwash. If the wick is the wrong size it will always be the wrong size.. They all catch up at the end if given enough time if wicked well.  

LMAO!!!    I do believe that memory is hogwash too :-)   Is there is a cd smaller that cd4?  it's looking like the cdn4 may be working, but whats really weird is all three testers in these 2oz tins are the same wax combo, different FO, but the one with the cdn4 had soooo many bubbles come to the top, I saw bubbles in the other two but not nearly as many as that one? not sure what to think about that?   do you have any tricks on how to get rid of bubbles?   I think I recall you saying somewhere that some waxes have bubbles, and of course this crappy C3 does! any ideas are super GREATLY appreciated!!!

32 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

The smaller the container, the harder it will be to wick.  They just get too hot too fast. 
 

the reverse is true too. Giant containers are difficult to wick, but for other reasons. 
 

Kerven is on the right track with votive sizes. Cd can be purchased smaller, as well as HTP, lx, etc. 

 

as for the “memory”, hogwash. If the wick is the wrong size it will always be the wrong size.. They all catch up at the end if given enough time if wicked well.  

2 hours ago, Kerven said:

A tiny 2oz tin might require a wick in the votive range. I'm not sure if CD goes any smaller than CD4, and AFAIK CD4 is a votive size. Wicking can be confusing because you'll sometimes see similar results if the wick is either too large or too small. Did you try the next size up? Knowing that a CD4 didn't work and assuming the tin has a diameter of 2", I'd start with a CD5 or CD6. All three of those sizes are rated for votives - CD5 and CD6 for ~2" containers - but the type of wax, anything added, the FO used, and the container can affect results, so published recommendations can be used as a general starting point for testing but not written in stone. Personal experience will also factor in once you get the hang of it. There could also be a chance that the FO is a dud in that wax. It's not unusual for some FOs to simply not work in a particular wax no matter the wick series/size. It's possible that a cooler burning wick series is needed. I primarily work with ECO so I can't give a confident recommendation for that.

 

A speedy and cost effective method I use for swapping out testers is to use straight sided containers and temporary wicks. The container needs to be smooth and flush enough that the entire candle, when chilled in a freezer, can be popped out with little fuss. Then, allow the container to warm to room temp, give it a wipe down, pour a new tester. The wicks aren't secured before pouring. The tabbed base is removed and the wick is trimmed to size before insertion (make sure to keep the wick upright and don't accidentally put it in upside down, else it may not wick properly!). If I'm going to use the same candle to test more than one wick, I pour without a wick and poke a hole in the wax for the wick once set and cured. After burning, the wick is plucked out with tweezers while the wax is soft enough to release it. . Careful not to toss them in a freezer immediately after a burn. Allow them to return to room temp.

 

Wax memory shouldn't be a huge issue in a container candle that small. In a pillar, wax memory is important because a complete melt pool will either spill over the sides, weaken the wall of wax (leading to collapse), or spill through hot spots; it needs to somewhat tunnel, leaving that wall of wax. In a container candle, heat reflected or re-radiated from the container walls will aid in the melting of the outer wax, so excess wax around the perimeter is not necessary and is often referred to as hang up. As long as the outer wax is melting as the flame moves lower, it's fine. And if a little hang up remains, that's not a terrible thing. Sometimes there just isn't a size that works 100% and you have to go with the closest. Just make sure the container doesn't become too hot to safely handle.

 

Also, since you're working with soy, make sure to give it a decent cure before doing a test burn. A week might do. Maybe a little longer depending on the percentage in the blend and the FO used.

2 hours ago, Kerven said:

A tiny 2oz tin might require a wick in the votive range. I'm not sure if CD goes any smaller than CD4, and AFAIK CD4 is a votive size. Wicking can be confusing because you'll sometimes see similar results if the wick is either too large or too small. Did you try the next size up? Knowing that a CD4 didn't work and assuming the tin has a diameter of 2", I'd start with a CD5 or CD6. All three of those sizes are rated for votives - CD5 and CD6 for ~2" containers - but the type of wax, anything added, the FO used, and the container can affect results, so published recommendations can be used as a general starting point for testing but not written in stone. Personal experience will also factor in once you get the hang of it. There could also be a chance that the FO is a dud in that wax. It's not unusual for some FOs to simply not work in a particular wax no matter the wick series/size. It's possible that a cooler burning wick series is needed. I primarily work with ECO so I can't give a confident recommendation for that.

 

A speedy and cost effective method I use for swapping out testers is to use straight sided containers and temporary wicks. The container needs to be smooth and flush enough that the entire candle, when chilled in a freezer, can be popped out with little fuss. Then, allow the container to warm to room temp, give it a wipe down, pour a new tester. The wicks aren't secured before pouring. The tabbed base is removed and the wick is trimmed to size before insertion (make sure to keep the wick upright and don't accidentally put it in upside down, else it may not wick properly!). If I'm going to use the same candle to test more than one wick, I pour without a wick and poke a hole in the wax for the wick once set and cured. After burning, the wick is plucked out with tweezers while the wax is soft enough to release it. . Careful not to toss them in a freezer immediately after a burn. Allow them to return to room temp.

 

Wax memory shouldn't be a huge issue in a container candle that small. In a pillar, wax memory is important because a complete melt pool will either spill over the sides, weaken the wall of wax (leading to collapse), or spill through hot spots; it needs to somewhat tunnel, leaving that wall of wax. In a container candle, heat reflected or re-radiated from the container walls will aid in the melting of the outer wax, so excess wax around the perimeter is not necessary and is often referred to as hang up. As long as the outer wax is melting as the flame moves lower, it's fine. And if a little hang up remains, that's not a terrible thing. Sometimes there just isn't a size that works 100% and you have to go with the closest. Just make sure the container doesn't become too hot to safely handle.

 

Also, since you're working with soy, make sure to give it a decent cure before doing a test burn. A week might do. Maybe a little longer depending on the percentage in the blend and the FO used.

thank you again for all that great advise!   I did see somewhere where TallTayl did that tray test! that was interesting!  I wonder if you could explain more about your speedy cost effective method for testers?   I don't quite understand, and yes I cure for 1 week and then again at 2 weeks, so you think there is some truth to the memory theory? for the larger 8oz tins I am also testing,   I under too if you have any experience in getting bubbles out of wax?   this crappy C3 also has bubbles and they all come to the top while burning!   then when it cools again it looks like crap!   sorry for being such a pest, I'm just frustrated and second guessing everything I have learned, seems I have lot more to learn!

On 10/28/2019 at 3:09 PM, Kerven said:

Go smaller with the CD wicks. Much smaller. Maybe somewhere around CD 7 maybe even a CD 9. There's a post somewhere around here from years back that discussed how CD wicks were a half size to a size different from ECO, so an ECO 6 would equal a CD 7 but a CD 7 wasn't equal to an ECO 8 (or maybe it's ECO 4)... something similar to that. I've only worked with CD wicks during a bit of brief testing a year or two ago, so they're out of my element. One trick I learned with wicking is to choose a "standard" (what's recommended) for the container and wax combo, then do two more testers - one a size up and another a size down. Look for a stable non-dancing/flickering flame, no soot/smoke, no mushrooming/carbon balls, no more than 1in in flame height, not too hot. Whichever wick comes closest to that becomes the new "standard", which is followed by two more testers in whichever direction the sizing is headed (smaller or larger).

For example, if you tested CD 5, 7, 9, and CD 9 had the best (but not perfect) performance, you'd then make testers with CD 9, 10, 12, repeat until you find one that works. Over time, you'll get the feel for it and be able to estimate the starting size and whether you're off by a size or two.

The other method is to do a tray test, where you fill an aluminum tray (those crinkled disposable aluminum baking/roasting pans) with a couple inches of wax, wick it, and then burn all of them, leaving enough space for melt pools to form without overlapping. You can either wick it as you would a candle, securing the wick tabs, or poke holes and insert wicks. With poking holes, make sure the wax is deep enough or the wicks could fall over before the test is complete. You'll get an idea of which wick performs the best in that wax and how large of a container is needed, based on the diameter of the resulting melt pool, to accomodate the melt pool size.

 

I saw something the other day about the wickless candles. I assumed they were the equivalent of solid air fresheners; I was wrong. I think it was a guide for DIY holiday gifts, a WSP flyer, or something on YT. I don't remember where, but I felt like a dufus, yet relieved, when I saw it. All this time I was wondering what to do with all these FO samples and bags and bags of wonky 464... Now, I know! I almost have sympathy for the lucky (debatable) people who will be receiving boxes of wickless candles for the holiday season. On the other hand, I'm going to have freed up space so that the FO hoarding can continue!

 

Edit: Oh, and about the melt pool reaching full size. It's not ideal for that to happen within the first couple burns, especially so with a tin. If it's full early on, it's going to be much hotter when it reaches the bottom half of the container.

again I get confused about melt pools, I have even heard that soy wax has "memory" and if your first burn does not reach the edge that it never will.  i have a tiny 2 oz tin now with a cd4 in this crappy c3 with 10% coco2 and it didn't reach the edge in 3 hours! and it is hot and mushrooming!  and I could scream and cry I don't know what the heck I'm doing anymore! do i go smaller or larger? do I get a whole new series?   or do I just quit !!!  Ha Ha not an option!  just venting it's certainly the principle now, well and cost too

3 minutes ago, Kerven said:

Go smaller with the CD wicks. Much smaller. Maybe somewhere around CD 7 maybe even a CD 9. There's a post somewhere around here from years back that discussed how CD wicks were a half size to a size different from ECO, so an ECO 6 would equal a CD 7 but a CD 7 wasn't equal to an ECO 8 (or maybe it's ECO 4)... something similar to that. I've only worked with CD wicks during a bit of brief testing a year or two ago, so they're out of my element. One trick I learned with wicking is to choose a "standard" (what's recommended) for the container and wax combo, then do two more testers - one a size up and another a size down. Look for a stable non-dancing/flickering flame, no soot/smoke, no mushrooming/carbon balls, no more than 1in in flame height, not too hot. Whichever wick comes closest to that becomes the new "standard", which is followed by two more testers in whichever direction the sizing is headed (smaller or larger).

For example, if you tested CD 5, 7, 9, and CD 9 had the best (but not perfect) performance, you'd then make testers with CD 9, 10, 12, repeat until you find one that works. Over time, you'll get the feel for it and be able to estimate the starting size and whether you're off by a size or two.

The other method is to do a tray test, where you fill an aluminum tray (those crinkled disposable aluminum baking/roasting pans) with a couple inches of wax, wick it, and then burn all of them, leaving enough space for melt pools to form without overlapping. You can either wick it as you would a candle, securing the wick tabs, or poke holes and insert wicks. With poking holes, make sure the wax is deep enough or the wicks could fall over before the test is complete. You'll get an idea of which wick performs the best in that wax and how large of a container is needed, based on the diameter of the resulting melt pool, to accomodate the melt pool size.

 

I saw something the other day about the wickless candles. I assumed they were the equivalent of solid air fresheners; I was wrong. I think it was a guide for DIY holiday gifts, a WSP flyer, or something on YT. I don't remember where, but I felt like a dufus, yet relieved, when I saw it. All this time I was wondering what to do with all these FO samples and bags and bags of wonky 464... Now, I know! I almost have sympathy for the lucky (debatable) people who will be receiving boxes of wickless candles for the holiday season. On the other hand, I'm going to have freed up space so that the FO hoarding can continue!

all awesome advise!  thank you so much!   I was seriously considering double wicking these tins!!  I think I started with CD10 and jumped right to CD16 for some reason I can't remember now (I am at my real job :-)  I will keep trying my 3 christmas fragrances for now and know I can fall back on the wickless candles, it's so simple and such an awesome idea, I would of never thought about it !!    thank you for the idea too , to use all those  FO  I have too    LOL

12 minutes ago, Kerven said:

If adding the coco2, start with around 10%, IMO. It has a much lower melt point and could make the candles too soft and vulnerable to melting in hot conditions.

Ceda Serica (coconut-apricot) and coco83 blend well with C3 (better than they do with 464, IME), but don't go splurging on them if you haven't worked with them before. On their own, the coconut waxes can be very difficult to wick. I've recently read that coco83 has become unreliable and may have been reformulated, so results may vary. The coconut-apricot has yet to disappoint me with its reliability (knock on wood).

What about wickless candles along with your melts? You can make them as you would candles in tins but omit the wicks. To use them, just plop on a mug or candle warmer.

would you have an educated guess as to which series of wicks to start testing C3 mixed with coco2?   so far I am up to a CD20 and CND 18, in an 8 oz tin and the flames are tall and dancing, and giving off some soot and not spreading to the edge of the container even after 3 hours, I haven't even started with my whiskey glasses, just thought I would bring tins to the show   thanks in advance for any help

1 minute ago, Kerven said:

If adding the coco2, start with around 10%, IMO. It has a much lower melt point and could make the candles too soft and vulnerable to melting in hot conditions.

Ceda Serica (coconut-apricot) and coco83 blend well with C3 (better than they do with 464, IME), but don't go splurging on them if you haven't worked with them before. On their own, the coconut waxes can be very difficult to wick. I've recently read that coco83 has become unreliable and may have been reformulated, so results may vary. The coconut-apricot has yet to disappoint me with its reliability (knock on wood).

What about wickless candles along with your melts? You can make them as you would candles in tins but omit the wicks. To use them, just plop on a mug or candle warmer.

OMG what an awesome idea!! wickless candles I LOVE IT ,  I love this site!!!    I have 10 lbs of the coco2, and I know it has some soy in it too, but it was cheap at the time I bought it,

and was mixing well with the last of my cb advanced, but I jumped the gun and ordered 100 lbs of C3 and regretting every minute of it!! but thank you soooo much for the suggestion to start with 10%, I will definitely continue to test this wax or sell it!!  but in the meantime I sincerely appreciate the idea of wickless candles !!!!    I can breath now :-) 

2 hours ago, NightLight said:

C3 is a harder wax than other soy waxes, so you may have to go up one or two sizes. If you add color it will change again. My suggestion is you test C3 without color and get the wicking down. Then you can add color and see how that changes the wax. Anytime you add anything to wax it will  change the outcome. You must be scientific in testing and write down your wax, additives, pour temp, fragrance percentage, type of container and width. Variables can also be the temp in your work, how hot or cold your glass is etc. Keep a notebook.

You can search the forum about tips on using C3.

I am just sooo upset with myself for panicking and ordering 100 lbs of this so i wouldn't have to test  a new box again for a while. Now I have my very first show coming up nov 23rd and running out of time!  I thought i would save some testing time and go ahead and test three fragrances, only one with color so I could get through the show! thank you NightLight for all the advice!    I won't sell a candle I'm not comfortable with,  I will just bring melts and candle warmers!  I think I am really beginning to HATE this C3 and that just makes me more upset!

Sorry for venting! I am also going to try adding coco2 wax (because that's what I already have) before I give up!

35 minutes ago, NightLight said:

Yes.

Gosh I hope that’s it! I guess iVe been lucky with all my other fragrances. But I am having a terrible time wicking this C3!! No matter the fragrance I use 😞

1 minute ago, NightLight said:

That's frosting in Soy wax. If you do not want that look then you need to use paraffin wax not soy.

Most soy candle makers do not color their wax because of how color works in soy.

 

could it be this c3 does not like this FO?  I have made several candles with this C3 alone, with 1oz coco2 per lb and with 2oz per lb, no dyes, and with different

colors,   none of them look like this.  frosting yes, some more than others, and usually with room temperature changes but this is very strange to me in a perfectly round circle?

h          

has anyone seen anything like this?  8oz tin and 13.5 whiskey glass both about 3 - 3 1/4" round  

1 lb C3 Soy with 2 oz coco2   1 oz Rustic Lodge from RE  tin has HTP176 Glass has CD20     I have never seen that white circle before in any candle i have ever made

can someone tell me if they have come across this before and what is it?

On 10/10/2019 at 11:25 AM, TallTayl said:

Am renewing product liability insurance and looked at their handy dandy chart to happily discover the lower rate “minimal coverage” if not covering property damage. 

do you happen to know of anyone else who offers candle insurance?  I looked at there list of things they don't cover and one was electrical items 😞

I am still having problems wicking my heavy bottom 13.5 oz. whisky glasses   3- 3/8 wide x 4-1/4 tall   

single cds12 & cds14 seem to be too hot, (high flame, deep small mp)   has anyone used these glasses

or similar size?   would using 2 smaller wicks (cd4) work to get a better melt pool and not burn off the

Fragrance so fast?       I am using C3 soy wax 

6 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

We are all in this together. 

Yes. I love this forum !!

4 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

3 is good 

I want you to know how grateful I am for all your expertise and help☺️ I would be crying and have given up today. Thank you so much!

47 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

Take a deep breath. I would pull those and replace with cd12 or cd14. Let cool 5 or so hours and relight. 
 

mushrooms like that and deep pools mean overwicked. Not the end of the world you’ve got this. 

Omg thank you thank you for responding! I’m ready to hit the liquor cabinet 🙃 I went hog wild with too many fo and wick combos I will only deal with 3 for now and pray later today that works better. I really like the cd they seem to have worked the best in my other candles. Just concerned if they were too hot or if this wax needs longer cure  wish I could predict the future 😩

On 10/15/2019 at 5:22 PM, TallTayl said:

That's a rather philosophical debate around here. Suppliers and some members say 3 days. Most of us notice major differences with time. If you have enough jars, make at least one extra to test at 3 days and again at a week.  hang on to one and burn in a month. this will be a nice base line to learn from.

 

I can say for certain if you are underwicked at a week, that won't change.  

 

throw will usually improve over time.

so the results of my one week test - 3 different fragrances - c3 with 1 oz coco2 per lb -  (1)8 oz tin,  (1)12 oz whiskey glass each - every one of them - no matter the wick - cd18,20 - cdn16,18 and htp126,1212  everyone of them burned too high, melt pool eventually widened but looked too deep, and most mushroomed, all had tiny beads of sweating when lit          can I assume none of these wicks will work?   or do I need cure longer? or do I have too much coco and/or fragrance?  I am literally at my wits end and may have to cancel my show on the 23rd even though i wont get my money back 😞     any suggestions please?   ps: the throw both hot and cold were great!

42 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

I swear the manufacturers do it to sell more wax to use chumps. 
 

keep at it. 

Yeah or get us to buy it by the pallet😡

11 minutes ago, NightLight said:

Don’t despair. Just test see how it goes. You can’t rush it. If it’s a fail. Dig out the wax, if you glues the wicks, and redo. Everyone has different methods and different wax  blends and wicks!

Thank you yes I am afraid right now I need to rush to have something to sell for nov 23rd but I know I need to test because I certainly don’t want my first sales to be dangerous or not burn at all. How did I get myself into this?  Oh yeah it’s the dang wax changing every time I buy something 😩 at least I have some from last box of cb adv so I’m testing with what worked for that to start with crossing my fingers I’ll get lucky 🙏🏼