geekrunner

Hi Niya,

Golden Brands makes a pillar blend soy, which should be available through any supplier that carries GB waxes. I have some but haven't made any pillars with it yet. It should be all veggie without any paraffin. GB makes alot of good waxes. You'll just have to get a sample quantity and try it out. If you like, I could send you some of it that I have for 75 cents a lb plus the cost of shipping. I doubt I'll ever use it.

geek

Very nice job there noob!

geek

Sorry, I can't say. I'm still working off some 415 I bought back in July. What kind of wicks are you using?

geek

Hello to all!!

Just signed up on this board and looking forward to sharing information. On this subject, one of the posters asked how you could say the candle is "SOY" without knowing exactly what's in it. I asked a soy distributer the same thing. He said there is absoutely know legislative body that governs truth in advertising when it comes to this wax. So we can say it's a soy candle with any of the blends and so on. The industry is banking on ethics for a truthful discription of the candles we make. All I can say, is it will come back to bite. Most of us have experience with other candles that when the opportunity comes, a customer will say---I like your candles better. There is always an opportunity to educate someone---without bashing of course.

Welcome Fran! Most noobs don't come out of the chute offering advice

While most chandlers I'm sure are honest, we are also protective of our trade secrets. Understandably so would Candle Wealth. If they have created their own proprietary soy wax blend, they rightfully should protect it. Ethically, we can tell people what we have in our soy candles without revealing everything about it, but at least we know what is in it. CW people can't even tell us what's in their wax, regardless of the percentage of each ingredient.

I think it reflects well on us here that many have seen and experienced a CW candle, and generally have liked them, but we are picking apart the business side of it that just doesn't seem kosher.

I hope you enjoy the board, maybe you can post an introduction and we can all reply!

geek

I've got a load of 24 oz, too! Bought them off the classies here along with a bunch of 16 oz. The 16 oz was frustrating enough (and expensive) to test. In the meantime, I got sidetracked with other things and never worked with them. After more reading, I've decided to use the jars as canisters, etc., and forget about them for candles.

That's a great idea! Now I know what to do for Christmas presents next year! I could fill them with potpourri. Or even fill them with different color beans, or macaroni, or different pasta shapes, and make them into kitchen decanters/decoration. Also I know now I can't sell them in the Classifieds unless I gave them away!

geek

The smoke you say it has, are you talking when you put the wick out or the soot riseing when burning? I think the mushroom is ok and the jar looks good.

From blowing it out. I get no soot when it burns. I do have to trim the wick down alot lower than 1/4 inch, otherwise the flame is a bit too tall. I should probably try burning it again wihtout trimming to see how it behaves if someone refuses to trim it, or at least doesn't knock off the 'shroom.

geek

Also wondered about the insurance. What happens if a a person sells their product to a store, bought by conusmer, consumer's house burns down...who gets sued? store, candle maker, or both? Just thought of that.

Who gets sued? Everyone does.

Who is ultimately responsible legally? It depends on who has the "deepest pockets." If you have insurance, the lawyers for the insurance companies fight it out.

If it can be demonstrated that the end user did not burn the candle according to the warning label, or the included directions, then maybe the end user legally bears then responsibility, then his/her homeowners insurance should cover it.

Ultimately everything comes down to a fight between insurance company lawyers. The only experience I speak from is when my home burned in 1986 and my insurance man pocketed all my premiums, leaving me uninsured, and did not have Errors and Omissions coverage on himself.

geek

Hi Geek. I think it looks great and not all that big...many wicks would have been giant 'roomed after 10 hours. Was the throw good and how deep did the melt pool get? These questions are for comparison to my 415/KY115 (same as 402?) Right now I'm burning a 50/50 blend with a 790 in an 8 oz status. My % is 8.3 of Daystar's Spice Market. My 'room is as big as yours in the picture at 2 1/2-3 hours. My melt pool is about 1/4" but throw is low. Haven't used that FO before either. Beth

This is on it's third burn. Also the jar is 3 1/2 inches wide. The first burn was 4 hours, it didn't clean and left ab 1/8 inch all the way around. MP depth was about 1/4 inch. Throw was very good, it smelled up the kitchen and living room, and you could smell it a little in our back bedroom (our house is ab 1100 sq ft ranch). It wasn't eye-iritatingly strong, but very nice. It had a mushroom, but it wasn't real big, and it didn't smoke as much as I thougth it would. The second 4 hour burn got a little deeper, and near the end of the burn the hangup began to erode and slide. Same mushroom and smoke as the first burn.

Then on the third burn, the 10 hour burn, it cleaned it and gave birth to the two-headed mushroom. Once again, not much afterglow and not as much smoking as I thought it would. The MP was at least 1/2 inch, maybe a little deeper. The jar was not too hot. So far I'm pretty happy with it!

geek

I need your expert advice on this mushroom. Wax is 415/402/USA blend, Peak's Lilac at 7%, Pryme color blue/red, Premier 795 wick. Marathon burned for 10 hours.

Does this look like excessive mushrooming for such a long burn?

geek

I've got two cases of the 24 oz MP jars, but I've been only testing the 16 oz. The 24 oz takes too much wax (and time) to test. even if I just fill it to 16 oz. I really like the Metro jars, and I would like to test them, but I'm on the verge of getting too many jars to test and overwhelming myself. I already have 14 FOs tested out in 16 oz keepsake and 8 oz jelly jars, and have tried out one FO in pint Mason. I ultimately want to have a line of Country styled jars (pint Mason and jelly jar) and a line of more upscale, cosmopolitan style jars, like the Metro or the Melting Pot. So many choices.

geek

I never realized that Candle Wealth was about selling the Candle Kits, not selling candles made with the kits! That screams Pyramid scheme!

I had a dear friend who got involved in a MLM deal. She and her husband were both on board with it, and tried to get me and mrs geek involved too. We went to one of their recruiting meetings at a motor inn conference room, and one could easily see how these people get sucked in. Forst, they do lay down alot of catch phrases and cool buzzwords to work you into a frenzy. Then alot of pressure is applied to make you get involved. The overriding point they try to get across is that if you really don't want to be successful and wealthy if you don't join their group. They have lots of strategies to use if you resist, and they are based on making you feel stupid around other people who were smart enough to sign on to their scheme.

The bad part of the whole ordeal was that my dear friend sponsored me when I went through RCIA and was baptized into the Catholic Church. Talk about pressure! Ugh

geek

I saw those jars, and if they are single wicking them, I sure would like to know too! I'd almost buy one to see, but I'm about ready to give up on them. I'm trying one last trick: threading two wicks through one tab and then spacing them 3/4 inch apart at the top of jar using my wick centering tool for two wicks.

The big problem has been the wicks drowning at about halfway down due to the odd arflow in the jar. I'm thinking that the " V " shape of the two wicks having the wicks converge as the candle melts down will make it behave more like a single wick.

If I can't get that to work, I'm giving up and buying Metro jars.

geek

Ok, the CD-8 looks the close to the ECO 4. I have a whole bag of the ECO 6's. The ECO 6's look just a tad bigger than the CD-8. Altough, this is just a visual comparison. I may give the ECO 4's a try and see how they do. What do you think Geek?

I think Top is giving you better advice, I defer to his experience in these matters

geek

Well, an LX18 would be comparable in Rate of Consumption to an HTP93, and since the HTPs and CD are the same type wick by different manufacturers, and the CD8 is physically the same size as the HTP93, my educated guess would be to start out with CD8.

HTH! geek

She's taking people to the cleaners at 98 cents/oz. I've been charging $1 per oz and that has the cost of glassware figured into it. So she's making about another $1.50 per jar in profit. On top of that, I'd even bet she is only using one size of wick no matter the jar size. She probably bought all her supplies on eBay too

geek

HI Diana and welcome to the board!

If you post this in the Veggie wax forum, you'll get better response. This forum is for primarily paraffin. Not too many here know the ins and outs of soy like we do in the veggie forum! Unfortunately I don't know much about your wax and don't use tins. Be sure and use the search tool also!

geek

geek

So is there any way to cut down on the frost lines? Is it caused by the dye load or is it just another annoying characteristic of soy? Is it possible to cut this down or eliminate it?

It's probably more annoying to us, but it can be explained as a characteristic of soy that does not affect the throw or burn. I tend to bias my wicking toward marathon burning, so I wind up using zinc core wicks, which burn cooler so the MP doesn't get too deep when it burns for 12+ hours. But the MP doesn't get real hot, so when it cools it leaves the frost line. When I use LX wicks, the MP gets much hotter but it is much deeper than I want, and the jar gets too hot to touch. However, no frost lines when it cools.

It's just one of those things one has to fiddle with to get just right.

geek

Yep, I tried the 464. I got major sink holes, a little to soft for me. I like the wax I am using, but I would like to try others that have better shipping rates or better yet, something I can pick up. Also, it's fun to just PLAY! I think I tried the 415 already. I will have to go check my notes. Bad memory! :embarasse I know I didn't try EZ soy, but if they are the same wax I don't think I'll bother (if I already tried the 415). Great price though!

I like to play too! The EZ-Soy is 415, in fact alot of suppliers use the 415 as their house brand.

geek

Welcome back to candlemaking! We like noobs.

The 415 and 444 are very similar, but the 444 has Universal Soy Additive preblended into it. If you like doing things easy, then I would choose the 444. If you like to experiment and create your own proprietary blend, then 415 is what you want. You can mix the 415 with beeswax, or USA, or paraffin, or other soy waxes.

Good luck! geek

Good info Geek - thanks. Also, do you know what the difference is between 444 and 464...is one "newer" than the other? Mike

Both are relatively new, but they are not the same wax. The 444 is a higher MP wax than the 464 by about 5-10 degrees. If you are familiar with the other GB waxes, the 415 would be comparable to the 444, but the 415 is a straight soy, while the 444 is pre-blended with USA. The 402 compares to the 464, but the 402 is straight soy while the 464 has USA pre-blended into it.

HTH! geek

That is actually a frost line, it is due to the uneven cooling of the melt pool after extinguishing the flame. I get that alot even if the rest of the candle doesn't frost. I have found that the hotter the MP, then you get less or no frost line. On my candles that I wick with zinc cores, I usually get the frost lines. But on the ones I wick with LXs, I don't get the frost line. However, I do have better luck with the zincs overall with MP depth and keeping the jars from getting too hot.

HTH! geek

I guess as a business decision, some suppliers don't carry the whole line of some types of wicks. Perhaps they have tested the jars/waxes/FOs they carry and only carry the wicks they find works in them. Just a hunch. I have found too that Peaks carries more complete lines of wicks than most other suppliers.

geek

Pouring and cooling techniques, as well as using the cleanest dryest glassware possible, will prevent frosting better than adding BW. It would be better to simply switch to the new blend 444 than to start adding BW to 464. The 444 doesn't need anything extra, since it is essentially 415 with USA already added to it. BW tends to run about $6 per lb also.

After testing alot of GB waxes, and experimented with adding various amounts of USA and BW, it doesn't work out that well to add two ingredients in the same batch that essentially act as emulsifiers. It is better IMO to use just one or the other. I'm not discouraging anyone from being a Mad Scientist, I'm just passing along my thoughts.

geek

The EZ Wick Setter is good for setting the wick in the center of the jar, but there is also the EZ Wick Centering tools, which keep the wick centered while the poured candle cools. A worthwhile investment indeed. Any tool that saves you time and helps you make a better looking product is worth it.

geek