GrinningGoblin

Congratulations. I finally took the plunge and did some craft shows starting last month. There is nothing quite like introducing your own business to the world. It sure is a better feeling making money for yourself rather than busting your butt for a boss I gotta say. Good luck with your future shows!

If you haven't already arrived at an answer, I'd say it depends. Are you selling any stock or materials, or just the website and name? In general you would calculate the purchase price of your business by taking your discretionary cash flow and multiplying it by a modifier based on demand, reputation, and customer base. Discretionary cash flow is the actual, verifiable profit your business generates in a year less materials and expenses. Appropriate modifiers fall between 1 and 2.5 in most circumstances. To this number you would then add the price of any assets you are including in the sale.

However, this all assumes that your business is profitable and up and running. If not then it is worth exactly what they are willing to pay for it.

Google "reusable cookie sheet liner". I bought a couple from a kitchen supply place here for $4 each that are made of teflon. They are pretty rigid compared to plastic or paper liners and once cut to size they can be inserted into the PVC pipe and hold their shape without any real help from me. The have worked for me for a while now with no issues, and are much easier than trying to get them out without liners. The soap just slides out and the liner peels off easily, though sometimes I have to still refrigerate the soap to make it a little more rigid before peeling off the liner if it is a sticky formula.

I started with home made wooden molds, but now I have some HDPE molds from http://www.etsy.com/shop/MRDORIGHT123

I have 2 of the 6# log molds and one of the 5# slab molds. I only line the bottom of the slab, and the bottom and sides of the log molds. I don't bother with the ends. I really like the silicone lined wood molds, but haven't shelled out the cash for one yet.

Thanks for the input folks. I now have a half dozen local craft shows / flea markets under my belt and gotten some good feedback. A lot of what I have found line up with what is posted here.

Dragon's blood was far and away the most popular scent I had on the table. Others that did well were my teakwood & cardamom, sandalwood, unscented bastile, eucalyptus & lemongrass, and my spicy blend with anise, cassia, fennel, and nutmeg.

I had a lot of requests for goat milk soap but didn't have any with me. I finally found a local supplier though, so I have a few batches made and curing now. I plan on adding lavender and patchouli to my line as those were the most requested scents that I did not have with me.

I really like the sweet orange / yuzu bars and lotus bars that I had with me but didn't sell a single bar of either so I doubt I will mess with those again.

There's no liability for you to offer her bulk pricing regardless of her business practices. The only difference between a private consumer and a wholesale account from your perspective is only the wholesale account is able to avoid paying sales tax for goods they purchase for resale. The only thing you must do for her is charge sales tax if you would need to collect sales tax from her. It's the same thing Sam's Club does for their business members versus their private members.

If dealing with her is profitable do it, just make sure you explain to her you'll have to collect tax from her if she is in state since she isn't operating as a legal business.

Okay, I'm googling these things and they say to pour the warm melted wax onto your partners skin. Isn't that a little too hot? Wouldn't you burn yourself with hot wax???

Also, the ones that actually tell you what they are made of don't say soybean oil, they say coconut oil, almond oil, olive oil, hemp oil and vitamin E and it sounds like essential oils may be the scent.

......okay......I just took one for the team. I have several candles in front of me and I just stuck my finger into the melt pool. It isn't like boiling water or anything, but I do NOT want that poured onto my skin. It's hot enough to send me to the sink to get cold water on my finger.

:lipsrseal

I have seen it done at a spa before. The proper massage candles are made with a blend of soy wax and the oils you mentioned and a small amount of body-safe fragrance. The wax is soft enough to put your finger through even at room temp like a lotion bar. Basically they light them up and let a melt pool form while you're getting ready for a massage and either blow the candle out or pour the wax out on a saucer to cool it slightly and then use the warmed wax for the massage.

They're gimmicky but some folks want them and there is nothing wrong with them when made and used for purpose. It's the issue of ignorance on both sides of the aisle that lead to issues. One is customers who think soy = massage candle, and two is producers who want to cash in but don't want to spring for expensive materials or adjust their production techniques so they just slap a massage candle label on their existing soy candles.

My official response is: "Oils and lye are combined to create soap. Once mixed a chemical process known as saponification takes place and once the process is complete the lye is used up leaving none in the final product."

If they get a weird look on their face about lye I respond with: "You can't make soap without lye. All soaps are made in this manner, not just handmade soaps. Indeed, if no lye is used in the process the FDA says it can't be called "soap".

And if their eyes haven't glazed over and they want more info I continue with: "As a precaution against the possibility of lye making it through into the end product all of my soaps are “superfatted”, which basically means adding more oil to the batch than the lye can process. This extra measure of oil escapes saponification as the lye is used up leaving the soap extra mild. Commercial soaps are not superfatted which is why they can be so harsh. Superfatted soaps will gently clean your skin while replacing the necessary oils stripped away."

The biggest thing is practice your spiel. If you can deliver it quickly and concisely then you sound like you know what you are talking about and you can get on with talking up the scents and ingredients. Practice on your friends. I know mine are tired of hearing about soap.

Sorry. CP or HP. I do them both. I have only sold to friends and acquaintances so far, but the most consistent interest I have had is in my bugg-off blend, sandalwood, lavender, and plain unscented bastile. I have made several other varieties and they have been mostly hit or miss. As my current plan is to begin attending 3 craft shows a month leading up to the end of the year I would like to narrow things down to 6 to 10 varieties that I carry all of the time and rotate out a few other seasonal ones.

I'm just trying to collect some information on types that others find sell well to give me some ideas on scents to test.

I am just getting going with actually selling the soap I have been making over the past year, and so far the preferences of folks is all over the place. My question is, in general, if you could only sell 10 varieties or scents what would they be?

What kind of fragrance / essential oils did you use? Some can be a little rough at high concentrations.

Sorry, it's a craft show. I've got the table coverings lined up. Standard dj / catering cloths for standard folding tables. The go to the ground. I was thinking about writing prices on like a blackboard or something or maybe just have some brochures. Honestly I don't expect to necessarily be doing super brisk business so I kinda figured I'd have the time to chat with customers and tell them how much things are. I really wanted to avoid sticking tags or stickers on the stuff with prices for the reasons you suggested.

The show I am doing is the biggest in the area, but in scouting I found it to be more giant garage sale than upscale craft show. There was a mix of folks selling vintage stuff (second hand crap) and a few candle sellers (mostly yankee / scentsy). I am sorta stoked because no one was doing soap the two weekends I went, but that may be because there is no demand for it. We'll see.

I am finally planning on doing my first craft show during the second week of Novemeber. I am splitting a space with a friend (it's outdoors and large enough for us to fit two tables). He sells hand crafted jewelry so our products don't step on each other's toes at all and splitting the cost for the space is always cool.

I am a little curious about how other folks handle the nuts and bolts of setting up for a trade show. Do you label your goods with prices individually, or set up a "menu" price schedule for the table. What about bags / packaging to carry purchases? Do you folks worry about providing that or not. Would it be tacky if I recycled old grocery store plastic bags?

Until now I have sold by word of mouth and semi-wholesale to a lady who owns a consignment shop, so I am a little giddy thinking about event.

I'm not sure its other oils they are using. It seems to me that the adulterated oils are a mix of lower grade olive oil (pomace?)blended with the premium or virgin oil. Because it contains virgin oil this is what its being marketed as. Its very misleading to consumers. Fortunately the oil works great in soaping whether its pure virgin grade or pomace.

Soybean and hazelnut oil are commonly used to cut EVO. Some do use pomace but soy is the most common adulterant according to several sources.

Since we superfat, it should be ok. What worries me if there is another oil in there that someone might be allergic to.

That falls back to things not changing until fake olive oil kills someone. On the practical side of things if someone is allergic to something they are adulterating olive oil with they'll likely experience a reaction from eating it, assume they are allergic to olive oil, and steer clear of it in soap. It's not a perfect solution, but you can't control it and really can't be held liable for it. Personally I have been using pomace. I have read that it is far more likely to be pure olive since it is the cheap "garbage" pressing of the olive there is not a lot of incentive to adulterate it. Since it's cheaper and soaps better it's win / win.

I made a lemongrass soap that I wanted to add lemongrass to, but also found it way too scratchy. Ultimately I just used parsley flakes in the soap to get the sort of look I wanted and then sprinkled a bit of lemongrass on the top. I wouldn't try to puree it in a blender, it is so fibrous it is libel to burn out the motor, I think a coffee grinder or good food processor would be a better bet, but it is still probably gonna be pretty exfoliating.

Jewelry has a tremendous retail markup, especially diamonds. A ring that retails for $5000 may only have a gold / diamond weight cost of $800. If they are purchasing their jewelry through a pawn shop contact or wholesale account they are not spending anywhere near 5k for the ring going into the candle. Average out the cost of the jewelry over 1000 units and I guarantee they are spending less than $5 per unit for it. Add another $2 (if that) for the cost of the actual candle and you can see how they are making a pretty hefty profit selling them at $25 a pop.

Edit: Assume that for a run of 1000 candles they have 1 $5000 ring, 2 $1000 rings, 5 at $100, and the rest $10. That's $8420 retail cost of jewelry which would be $4210 at wholesale cost (they probably pay about a third of retail for wholesale cost, but let's assume it is half). That's just $4.10 per candle.

Exactly. As far as they know its probably 100%-- especially if the manufacturer strongly implies that.

I hope that some day soon we can get some legislation that requires manufacturers to list all the ingredients in the olive oil. It would be nice to know exactly what you are buying.

They do have to list all ingredients, however terms like "extra virgin" and "first pressing" aren't regulated in the US so they can sell deodorized pomace as EVO and it is totally legal. In addition, you have to factor in the cost to enforce versus the producer's incentive to commit fraud. With a few cheap additives they can mix in cheap oil with the real stuff and have it pass the most common purity tests. Until fake olive oils kills someone there isn't going to be enough of an outcry to do anything about it. Until then, every so often they will have a government run fraud survey (like they recently did that sparked these articles) some folks will get a slap on the wrist, they will blame their suppliers. The suppliers will blame the producers. The producers will fold their company and reincorporate under a different name, and everyone will go back to buying fake olive oil.

Bottom line is most people wan't cheap olive oil more than they want real olive oil, so they'll keep getting cheap (fake) olive oil.

The letter is spin because they have no way of knowing what is actually in the bottle.

I haven't seen any private policies yet that can beat out the one offered by the soapmaker's guild. They only requirement is you have to make soap, but it will cover other parts of your business like candles as well.

http://www.soapguild.org/industry/insurance-faq.php

Reading an article about the issues with imported olive oils they pointed at the honest-to-god Italian mafia as a source for a lot of the corruption. Supposedly the mob is so intertwined with olive oil production that the industry is thoroughly corrupt overseas.

What it boils down to is olive oil is in a lot of demand, and can't be mass produced like corn or soy beans. Some producers call it liquid gold and there is a lot of incentive to cut it to increase costs and meet demand. Ultimately if you find a "bargain" source you can be pretty much guaranteed that it is cut in some percentage. The cost of that locally produced gourmet oil is probably closer to what we should be paying for it. Currently we're too used to the price and taste of the fake stuff for the industry to change any time soon, and the drawback is except for niche producers who really hype the quality of their boutique brands, there is a lot of pressure to do what the big boys do and cut or doctor it.

Sounds too good to be true.

A quick way to test is to make a small batch of 100% OO soap. I make a 1 lb batch using 40-50% lye solution and warm OO. If that soap isn't hard as a brick and white within 24 hours then chances are it's not pure. If it even hints at staying smooshy or turning rusty in color, then you know for sure it's not pure OO.

I read an interesting article the other day that said pretty much all olive oil sold in the US is cut with other, cheaper oils (usually corn) by a minimum of about 15% and up to 80%. This happens by the manufacturers and is sold as pure to retail businesses, so trader joe's will have no real idea if theirs is actually pure. The DoJ has actually been investigating food fraud and olive oil is one of the worst offenders. According to some sources they have said it is reasonable to assume that none of us has ever actually had real, 100% olive oil. The article went on to say that most american consumers will reject real olive oil now because "it tastes fake" compared to what they are used to. Thanks to new techniques in production such as "deodorization" it is also common for pomace to be packaged and sold as EVO.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/jan/04/olive-oil-real-thing

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/jan/13/extra-virginity-tom-mueller-review

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/books/2012/02/the-exchange-tom-mueller.html

Honey is another offender. Apparently all of the honey coming out of china was discovered to be cut with corn syrup, even though it was sold as pure. Of course with honey you can avoid this by going direct to producers in a lot of places in the US since we make a lot here (and hey, it's always great to throw the little guy some business, especially local producers).

http://www.takepart.com/article/2011/12/14/honey-fraud-do-you-know-where-your-honey-is-coming-from

The primary gas released when aluminum reacts with sodium hydroxide is hydrogen, which is flammable, though you won't produce enough to be hazardous unless you're mixing granulated aluminum with strong lye at high temperature. With raw soap you likely won't produce a catastrophic reaction but will probably end up with a black coating of oxidation anywhere on the soap that moisture permeates. You could theoretically use the aluminum pan as a form if you line it completely with something that is waterproof like a trash liner if you are trying to make use of something you already have, but if you are planning on purchasing the wilton pan for soap use I would pass.

I have a wood mold I made for my first few batches and it was definitely cheap but I hate lining it. I found a seller on etsy that has HDPE molds that don't have to be lined. I still lay parchment paper in the bottom that covers the sides too, but I don't have to worry about the corners or ends. I love them, I am thinking about buying a slab mold from the same vendor.

+1 for soaper's choice. They're prices are among the most competitive I have found, and even though I live quite a ways away from them, they still have very low shipping rates for the size of packages they send out. I use NG for a lot of fragrances, and looked at them for base oils but they were almost double the cost in shipping for similar sized packages, in part because they package most of that stuff in 1 pound bottles. The smallest size of oils that SC uses for most of their products is a 7 lb bottle, but I wager that is cheaper than NG's buy 6 get 7 deal and it was about 1/2 the shipping cost for me.

When you are looking at sources for base oils you really have to pay attention to shipping rates. Ordering them in any real quantity can inflate their costs quickly, so even if you find a source that looks cheaper add some things to the cart and get a shipping quote. You may find your bargains aren't that great depending on your location.

The fat that comes from around the kidneys and the internal organs is known as "leaf lard". I have only found one supplier and the cost is $16.00 per pound. A local working farm replied that they made leaf lard but would never give me a price on small amounts. There are some good tutorials on Youtube on rendering hog fat and if you can find a slaughter house or butcher that would give you the fat then it would be worth your time and money. Leaf lard is famous for making the best pie crusts and for cooking and has no odor. Check with your local Mexican restaurant or Hispanic store for regular hydrogenated lard. HTH

Steve

On beef, the kidney fat is usually called suet. It renders into tallow which I hear makes great soap. If you have access to a butcher that deals with whole animals you can usually get it really cheap if not for free as most folks these days don't want it for anything. However, a large percentage of butchers only bring in sides of beef and slice that up instead of whole animals. You can still often get fat trimmings for free or cheap, but there will be muscle meat scraps mixed in which makes it more labor intensive to render.