KMB

13 hours ago, bfroberts said:

Interesting comments on this topic.  I ditched 6006 mostly and mainly for aesthetic issues, but I still use a bit from time to time. I don't think it's hard to master at all...once you accept that a FMP early on isn't going to work.  I don't even really understand why or how that became the benchmark of success. With the exception of multi-wicked candles and maybe some small el cheapo's, I haven't bought a commercially made candle that reaches a FMP on the first burn in forever.  Anyway, OP, keep plugging away at it. I think you are much closer to success than you realize.

Thank you. I appreciate that.

You left 6006 because of aesthetics? Compares to 464 it is smooth as butter!

2 hours ago, BusyBee said:

Yes.  6006 is a parasoy that might have been one of the best wax available back in the days when all other soy waxes had poor quality.  Now it is one of the hardest wax to work with.  Even hardest to achieve good HT 464 would be much easier than 6006.  What others (including myself) are trying to tell you is that you are up for tougher challenge than 464.

 

6006 forms concave shape melt pool with thick hang up on the sides which sometimes get really deep(see below picture).  With this kind of melt pool, it is going to impossible to have constant HT through out the candle life.  I have tried about 50 different types of wick(*Candle suppliers sells only about 15 different types not counting wooden wicks.) with many different sizes, but none of them seems to be working well for 6006.  HTP appears to be working best among many wicks, but HTP creates too strong air current which causes scent to be escaped to other rooms rather than filling up the room where candle is burning.

 

 

Below picture is 464.  464 has great appearance when it is melted, mixed & poured at right temperature.  Clean mirror like top after burn like in the picture can be only achieved by using the right wick.  When you get that clean top after burn, then that is the wick that will produce great HT also.  

 

You might have noticed by now that candle making is not just matter of melt and pour & sticking a right wick.  There are a lot more things that goes into candle making.  Welcome to candle makers world and good luck with your journey!

 

 

Thank you

I liked the "idea" of 464 but I did not like the appearance. I used several techniques. Even when I had beautiful tops and thought I had it down test burns would reveal that chunky uneven weird top.

I have to keep trying with 6006. I have been trying to "get it" for a bit now. I came to this site in Hope's that I would get ideas and brainstorm. I have recieved support for the struggle and encouragement to throw in the 6006 towel. I cant I "must" figure it out

 🤦‍♀️🤷‍♀️🙋‍♀️✔

8 hours ago, ErronB said:

 

The problem is, if you don't have the knowledge of how to wick high melt point waxes in the first place you're literally just throwing yourself in the deep end, parasoy waxes like Problend 600 aren't so tough to burn and are easier to learn with if you want something similar to 6006.

 

Good luck with your wicking journey, I remember going through it, it's tough.

 

 

 

 

Isnt 6006 considered a parasoy?

4 hours ago, ErronB said:

I don't think 6006 is a good wax for new candle makers to learn with, it's a tough burner and has a high melt point so it's only going to confuse people trying to learn all the other moving parts involved. I hate soy with a passion and won't use it, but I learned years ago with 464 in tins and it was easy to figure out the wicking and other stuff.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you.

I can appreciate that. I started with 464. I didn't like the appearance and no ht. Now I am waist deep in 6006. I have read good things about c3 that had tempter me but I am committed to figuring g 6006 out

22 minutes ago, pughaus said:

Hi KMB! It looks like you've really been bouncing around trying to wick a variety of vessels. No wonder you're frustrated! May I suggest you pick one, ideally a 3 x 3" or 3 x 4" straight sided tumbler - and nail that vessel down before you try wicking others? Find the right wick for it with NO fragrance oil. Then you'll have your baseline wick for that wax in that vessel.  Everything will be so much easier from that point on. (and you'll waste a whole lot less FO flailing around)  Stick with that vessel. Forget about scent throw for now- just strive to make a candle that burns well first, then you can work on adding FOs into the mix and making a good throwing candle.. in that vessel.  It will all come together much more easily at that point.

Also, I'm wondering if what you are calling "tunneling" .. isn't tunneling at all, but rather the appropriate amount of hang up early in a candle's burn cycle.  My candles don't form an edge to edge melt pool until late in their burn life.  There is typically hang-up and wax clinging to the sides of the vessel until the last 1/2" in a  3" tall tumbler.  I consider this ideal. When it's all done, all the wax has been consumed and the sides are clean. 
 

Pics for reference: One of my tester candles with a new-for-me FO after a burn 1 (6 hours). Would you consider that  tunneling?  
Pic 2 is the same candle after burn 2 (5.5 hrs)  This candle actually has less hang up at this point than usual for me - that cling will all melt down early in the next burn and I may very well step down 1 wick size for the next tester to see how that fares.

 

Thank you.

I would call that moderate hang up in the first and small to scant in the second. 

Tunneling seems to be a sharp drop that never widens with consecutive burns I usually let it roll until the end of the second burn and decide to stop the test.

I am much more forgiving of hangup now that I know what it looks like and how it resolves most of the time.

I have  a couple jars that are almost ready to wick test and I want to pour a few tonight with a new FO.

I have tried so many wicks it feels like a blur and I am at a loss as to which wick to try again.

I trust nothing I have done with wicks so far. And honestly I am going down on the % anyway so I feel like starting at the guide recomendation again - Candle science and flaming candle and now I will use the one posted above as a resource as well.

I wish I had zinc & premiere but I dont so I will have to choose among - CDN, CD, HTP, ECO, LX and wooden. I dont have all of the sizes though so that can be a problem.

3 hours ago, bfroberts said:

6006 burns with a deeper, more narrow melt pool.  You won't get a FMP in the early burns unless you are way over-wicked.  You want some hangup in the first couple of burns.  If you have a FMP early on, you are usually over-wicked.  With a tin, it's really best to have a bit of hangup until near the bottom of container.    

That is why many failed

I want to try to go as small as possible with this next burn.

Double and triple.

1 hour ago, bfroberts said:

What was wrong with them?  

They either tunneled- 2 burns

Or the container was too hot or the flame was too small and or smothered out.  Or the flame was to much even when trimmed- fast and deep pool 

Does anyone use zinc?

I have been looking for them but the suppliers I have checked are out or only have a few sizes.

I feel like zinc might work great because it burns cooler.

I want 2 and 3 wicks without torching the wax. Or drowning the flame so maybe larger but cooler burning? Does that make sense?

I have 4 candles without wicks that will be at 2 weeks in a couple days. But I am going to make a new batch with a new FO from a different company...just to see. And I think my nose is broke..I cannot tell if there is HT. The only thing I note is when there is a fuel scent.

What would be your top choice to test in these? 6006 w/8%

1>

*Libbey 6044 glass 3.7" (4" x 4"H))

2>

*Libbey 2996 glass 3.82" (4"D x 2.5"H)

3>

* WW Black tin 3.25 (3.5"Dx2"H)

6 hours ago, bfroberts said:

Some of those wick sizes are spot on.  Are you allowing the candle plenty of time to cure?  Burning too soon can give false results, especially with 6006.  That wax continues to harden for while after the candle is poured, and a test burn after 2 days can look very different than a test burn after 2 weeks.

They didnt look spot on 🥺

5 hours ago, NightLight said:

Fragrance oil matters. Where are you buying them from. Stick with two containers. Testing takes time especially when new.  Do not test a full container. Test half way down to find wick. Sometimes a different wick series for in between sizes is necessary. There is a CD 9 wick. Sometimes you adjust a fragrance to wick it by diluting with another to make it easier to wick, but this requires experience. Same thing with 6006. You can adjust the wax with another soy wax.

 

I never wick at 10 per cent. 5 - 7 per cent. You need to to pour three testers 6,7,10 and see how the wick burns. It should behave differently. 

I wish I could find a chart that compared alternative wicks. Like, if the 8 isnt enough and the 10 is too much switch to this brand and tey number.... I have read that wicks burn hotter than others.

The i just read that CDN is similiar to CD and doesnt burn as hot. So I am going to try a CDN 10 and see if it is less aggressive then the CD10 🤷‍♀️

4 hours ago, bfroberts said:

Some of those wick sizes are spot on.  Are you allowing the candle plenty of time to cure?  Burning too soon can give false results, especially with 6006.  That wax continues to harden for while after the candle is poured, and a test burn after 2 days can look very different than a test burn after 2 weeks.

Yes. 1 to 2 weeks

46 minutes ago, TallTayl said:

My first read over on each of those is most combos seem over wicked for that wax.

the shape of the jars matters.  Any with a neck or shoulders will be hotter than jars with straight sides from top to bottom.

 

tapered jars are nearly impossible for most seasoned chandlers.

 

proportions of the jars matters.  Jars and tins that are shorter than they are wide are difficult. People are tempted to over wick to compensate for no early headspace to start the chimney effect. The end of the candle is a disaster.

 

iMO the easiest jar to wick is the Libbey status jar available at most dollar stores. It is about 3” wide and 4” tall. If I can’t get decent HT and a clean burn in it with most waxes then I  am doing something wrong. The proportions are about perfect.

resist the advice to aim for a full melt pool on the first burn. Full melt pools are a limit not a goal.
 

a little hang up on the first few burns is not tunneling.  Hang up catches up by the middle and is desirable -  Despite what many new chandlers have been misled to believe.

 

I suspect your issues from the first post can largely be eliminated simply by wicking down. If you are smelling burning wax fines, chances are overwicking is the cause.
 

High fragrance loads for 6006 are not generally needed and really mess up an otherwise potentially good burn. 6-8% is usually more than enough.  
 

Different FO can require different wicks.  When learning your wax, it is a good idea to stick with the same FO or risk shooting at a moving target in The dark with a blindfold over your eyes. I choose the same bottle of fo for all new containers and new waxes just so I know where to start with wicks. This cuts my testing time and costs down considerably. If a proven winner fragrance does not burn well or throw well in a new combo I know where to go next.

 

Thank you.

I do get caught up looking for the melt pool. But now I am ok if I dont get it on the first burn run. I usually can label tunneling by the end of the second. It doesnt get any wider just deeper.

Most of my jars ar st. Sides with the exception of the skull - it is a sample that I am debating but so far (4hr) the LX is working. And the fleur from dream vessels - this does taper down..so🤦‍♀️

When you say over wicking I would live to start small but when I do they tunnel.. or the flam is smothered out. So I am forced to go up.

Can you throw me an idea what you would try?

For example the libbey 2996 is driving me nuts because it should be so easy. 

The silver tin from CS the CD 8 isnt enough and the 10 just burns a deep pool to the bottom

I plan to go down to 8% on the next round.

This is the current test including failed (f).

All wax and FO are 6006 w/ 10%

Diameter my measurement(listed as)

Glass 3.75 (4)
CDN8 x2, CDN10 x2,
 LX 21in ww tube(f), LX12 x3, LX12 x2(f), LX18 x2
.03x.325 x3(f), 03x.5 x2(f), .03x.75(f), .02x.5
ECO2 x3(f), ECO4 x2, ECO2 x2 w/tube(f), ECO2 x2, ECO2 x3
HTP83 x2(f), HTP62 x3(f), HTP93 x2, 

Glass 345 (3.98)
ECO4 x2, CDN2 x2, 

Glass <3/>3 (3.94) varies skull
HTP105 

Glass 2.95(3)
.02x625, .03x325(f),.03x.5(f), ECO8

Glass 2.99 (3)
ww.03x.5(f), ww.02x625, LX18(f), LX21, 

Glass 3.54(4)
ww.02x.75, .03x.75(f), 02x625booster(f), 

Glass 3.39 (4)
HTP72 x2(f), .03x.75(f), .02x.75

Glass 2.56
ECO2

Tin 2.95
ECO8(f), ECO12, ww tube(f), .03x.625, CD8(f), CD10

Tin 3.24 
ww .03x.5(f), .03x.625, .02x.625, HTP93(f)

There have been so many before this round. But this is where I at now.

I feel like I start narrowing in and it doesnt work.

Why isnt there a recipe book?

A burn catalog? A place to start. I start by looking at the guide recommendations and go from there. None of them have worked.

Already some of the burns are at 3 hours and they are starting to tunnel or the mp is cloudy or the flame is fizzling down to nothing or the container is hot... is depression from self care crafting a thing? 🙄🤣🤣🙄🤯😶

🤦‍♀️ complete loss. 

Is there a group for would be candle makers?

I feel like I am doing everything right and have tested SO MANY different ways..why cant I get this? I really suck at this. 

Finding and reading this site is my last attempt after months of testing. None of my candles smell beautiful. The last batch had a hint of sent and by 2 hours smelled of petroleum or...something not pretty.

I started with a ton of waxs and FO then decided to concentrate on one wax and one FO with ALL THE WICKS

This adventure started with the love of candles and I am starting to absolutely dread making them. I dont know where to go.

I used 6006 I heat it to 190-200 then add FO at 180/185 stir for 2 minutes and pour. Looks beautiful.

On 1/25/2020 at 1:22 PM, TallPineCandles said:

OK everyone....Newbie question for you all. I am adding VYBAR to IGI 6006 for a better hot throw (so they tell me). I have searched high and low but can not find anything related as to WHEN to add the VYBAR. Do I add while melting? At a lower temp before adding F/O? HELP!!!

What did you find out? I am thinking of doing the same?