aviking

15 hours ago, moonshine said:

Unfortunately they are all denying it and that cannot be true....they HAVE to be getting complaints by now, half this board is having issues now  and I chatted by text with CS awhile back and know people on here that inquired as well and they denied anything at all....🤷‍♀️

I contacted CS about a lot of 464  with low HT last week. Here is their reply:

"I certainly understand your concerns. I would first like to address your questions regarding a faulty lot. Lot F is the lot for every case of 464 soy wax. This is what the manufacturer uses to distinguish the wax from the other waxes they produce. Every case of 464 will be from Lot F. The date and time stamp that follows is then the date and the specific time that a specific case of wax was produced. Typically, when there is a defective batch of wax we see multiple complaints and severe issues with cases manufactured on the same day and within the same timeframe. We have had not had any widespread defective batches of 464 since last year.

That being said, soy wax is a natural wax and can absolutely vary from batch to batch. These variations are unavoidable as there is no way to avoid the natural soy differences that come with different seasons, different amounts of rainfall, and even the area of the US that the soy was harvested from. This is one of the things that soy candle makers have had to adapt and adjust to as one of the difficulties of soy candle making."

Not very helpful.
 

We also found it didn't place nice with most of our fragrances. Also not impressed by the CT. We felt there were so many hurdles just with that that we barely move forward with testing wicks... it was an automatic no. 

Here are two pictures. One is in a glass container and hasn't been heat gunned – so you can see how the top forms naturally. The second on in a tin has been heat gunned and you can see it's nice and smooth but the oil 'swirls' are there.

To me it looks like the FO isn't blending in 100%, but I'm not sure why. I'm only at 9.5% FO load. 

Hello, I've been making candles for 5 years and lately, I've been noticing at an 'oil slick' effect on the top of my candles. Tops are really smooth and looks nice, but there is a swirly oil 'sheen' when light reflect off the surface as if there is a very thin layer of oil resting on the top. Any idea on how to fix this? Or is this the new normal? This seems to be the case with all the FOs I try (from several different companies as well as my own blends). Here is my process:

Wax: GB 464, Heating to 190 degrees, adding 9.5% FO immediately, stirring for 3 minutes, pouring at 135 degrees. 

38 minutes ago, GoldieMN said:

For those making melts and clamshells, I have to say I am getting a good hot throw from the new 464.  I add a very small amount of Ecosoya PB just to make sure they pop out of the clamshell for the customer.  I've never had a problem with 100% 464 tarts popping out of silicon molds nicely.  However, they did smear up the big jars I sold them out of so I just added a little of the PB as I do for clamshells.  I use approximately 3 ounces of 464, .55 ounce PB, and .3 ounce oil.  That comes out to be around 8%, right? 

 

All my candles made with the new 464 that had no hot throw, I melted down and made into clamshells/tarts.  I did add more fragrance oil as I had melted and rewicked these jars a couple times and wasn't sure how much fragrance oil had dissipated.  Overall, I probably have close to 10% FO in them; maybe less.  

GoldieMN

 

 

Sorry, I don't mean to get off topic, but when you say new 464, what do you mean? Did they change 464? I've been using it for 5 years with pretty good results (apart from the occasional inconsistent box). I've been testing new wicks for a new product lately and did notice a lower HT, but I thought it was just the wicks? I'm totally new to this site, so apologies if there has already been a lot of talk about this.

1 minute ago, moonshine said:

Golden wax 416 has also proven to be pretty good - I'm still testing both - the 416 isn't throwing as strong and frost is surfacing but I have additives to try with this next 

I have almost used up all my PB so it's time to Start nailing this down but yes 416 is promising as well 

We're playing around with 416 now as well. We found it crumbles/breaks really easily when we take the melts out of our molds. The CT and HT were average and we also noticed frosting as well. Not really sure what to add to this to get it to strengthen/crumble less. 

3 minutes ago, moonshine said:

Suzy - I have not tried any of these waxes and refuse to do so - I appreciate the above people sharing their experiences and it's confirmed what I kinda thought was going to be tr case like most other  soy on the market now - not good 

read the msds sheets on the waxes and it's pretty scary - it says. It to inhale the vapors or mists so what exactly does that mean.....you can't avoid that when melting a melt!  Cases of vinegar smell and coughing when melting, not good 

if your needing to use soy like myself as PB was a big part of my blend I am finding American soy pillar and tart blend to be pretty good so far - it's shinier than I like but it breaks clean in a clamshell and has good ht an Ct

my next series of tests will be adding container soy- 415 to blend to see if it dulls the appearance and boosts throw even more 

Hi moonshine! Is American Soy Pillar and tart the same thing as American Soy Wax P-100?

41 minutes ago, SuzyK said:

I want to thank all of you for all of this information. I have not been able to get my hands on any wax as things are a bit slow for me and getting anything new has been put aside for now.

 

It sounds like these new waxes are on not worth my time. However, I don't make candles, I make wax melts.  Do you think they would still be awful waxes to use for wax melts?

 

As I research about what new waxes to use, I'm just confused!  I did so much research years ago to get the perfect waxes and this is just so frustrating to have to start all over.  But that was all before this trouble with soy waxes. I worry if I don't use all soy that my customers won't come back.  And I'll have to redo ALL of my labels.  argh!

Hi SuzyK!

I'm in the same boat. I've tested the Q230 for melts and was pretty disappointed. At 10% FO load there is very little to no cold throw. We sort of stopped our test there as there we simply can't sell a product that requires an FO load much higher than 10% and we especially can't sell a product that has no cold throw. Many of our fragrances were also distorted by a terrible vinegar smell given off by the wax that was very strong in the melted form and unfortunately still present in the final scented product. We tried and tried and tried to get it to work...even mixing it with other soy and it still was terrible. It's not as hard as ecosoya PB was and it doesn't release from molds easily at all. It also is very greasy and soft. I do not feel like there is a good option for 100% soy melts/tarts right now and that is a huge headache for us, as we also have packaging printed for a natural soy product. We luckily still have 50lbs of ecosoya PB that we are using until we can find an alternative.

Hello! I am brand new to this forum and excited to contribute and join the community! 

With all the changes in soy this year, it's been difficult to continue to make quality melts. I am extremely disappointed in the new ecosoya Q230. I was hoping it would be the end of my struggle...but sadly, there are issues with well below average cold throw, it doesn't play nice with several FOs, mild vinegar scent in final product and it has difficulty releasing from molds (I don't use clamshells) with a greasy residue.

I am curious, what are people finding works well for a soy melts for good throw and strong texture that doesn't crumble now that ecosoya PB is gone? I've tried GB Melt & Tart (416?), but find it's brittle and crumbly and breaks too easily for our melts although the CT and HT seems decent. I had been mixing soy with PB and had excellent result, but now I feel like I'm out of options and don't want to move to a parasoy. I am about to start experimenting with blending soy (either 464 or 444) with small percentages of stearic acid to see if any good result come of that.

I'd love to hear from you all!

Thank you!