fablefire

38 minutes ago, GoldieMN said:

Just backing up a bit concerning different throws from same batch.  I didn't notice, how long are you stirring the wax once you add the fragrance?  I stir for three minutes.

 

I use 464, Premier wicks, and pint canning jars so mine are bigger.  With the changes in this wax during the past year, I've had to go from a 785 or 790 wick to a 770 to get a decent hot throw.  I also am having success with CD10 wicks.  So if you are using a jelly jar, I would test with something under 770.  I wait two weeks before burning my test candles.  Test burns are 4 hours, then 8 hours.  Have you tried pouring your testers without wicks and then poking a hole down the center with a skewer/something similar, and sticking a wick down into the hole?  If a wick isn't going to work, you may find out right away and can pull that wick out and try a different size.  I'm usually looking for a good hot throw but not a hot jar before giving up and trying a different wick.  I had to start doing this as I was spending way too much time with this darn new batch of soy and the two-week cure time.  Hopefully, this all works out so I only have to test one jar then pour a dozen to sell.  If I don't get a good hot throw from a fragrance I use to get a good hot throw from, I test again.  

 

Also, with the new soy wax problems, I will be testing every batch ordered with every fragrance.  What a pain!

 

What fragrances are you testing and from where?  Maybe some of us using 464 can give you fall/holiday fragrance suggestions to get you going faster.  @Trappeur may actually use that jar with her 464.

 

Hang in there. 

Goldie

 

 

I stir for a good three minutes in every batch. Sorry, I forgot to include that. :x

I had no idea I could put a hole in the candle. I thought I had to just melt it down and rewick or start from scratch. That's awesome. Does the wax adhesion to the wick make a difference? I imagine that if you drill a hole, there will be a little bit of space between the wick and the wax immediately. Or do you use a heat gun after inserting the wick to make sure the wax is right up to the wick? This would be so cool. Bums me out when I have a candle that clearly needs another wick but being able to switch like that would be fantastic. The two week cure time is painful with seasonal FO.

Since you test every new batch of wax, how many candles do you make for each test batch? Do you use a range of wick sizes when testing a new batch of wax or just start with the wick size that worked last time? At what point do you say, "okay, this passes and I can make some for sale now"? Three successful candles? Six? I really want to get a good testing protocol so that I have confidence in my product. Part of why I started making candles is because I got tired of store bought candles fizzling out and not working. I don't want my business to have iffy product too.

I started with CandleScience FOs. I have also bought and tried some from Flaming and NorthWood, but the CS ones I picked up smelled so amazing (when they work) that if I could get those in my shop, I'd be a very happy camper. Actually, the cold throw on some of these is so amazing that they make me pretty happy without lighting haha. My fall CS FOs are Very Vanilla, Cinnamon Buns, Hazelnut Coffee, Fireside, Toasted Pumpkin Spice, Pumpkin Souffle, Pumpkin and Caramel, Apple Harvest, Macintosh, and Apple Maple Bourbon. My CS holiday contender samples are Gingerbread, Hansel and Gretel, Snickerdoodle, Amaretto Nog, Merry Mistletoe, Holly Berry, Mulled Cider and Chestnuts, Wassail, Christmas Hearth, Cranberry Marmalade, Cinnamon Stick, Cranberry Woods, Peppermint Bark, and Mistletoe. Have not made test batches out of all the holiday samples due to a massive heat wave we had in Portland. I didn't want the extreme heat to be a variable in the process.

So it sounds like for testing, I will wait 2 weeks for curing, then continue with the 4hr and 8hr power burn tests. Now I just need to figure out how many to make and what the litmus test is for knowing when a product is ready for sale.

I really appreciate the help. Thank you! I was shooting for mid October with a "just to see if I can pull it off" mindset, but figured if I missed the fall scent window I could move on to winter scents. Incorporating in January at the beginning of the fiscal year does have some perks. Plus I really want a good product.

7 hours ago, Candybee said:

 

Thanks for clarifying your efforts so far. Sounds like you have started out on the right path.

 

Moonshine's post made a significant point you need to take into account when testing. The wax industry, especially soy waxes, have been modified according to recent FDA guidelines re hydrogenated fats. So many experienced chandlers using the same wax for years are finding they have to retest as the wax has changed in a dramatic way effecting the way it burns and behaves.

 

The trick is to test each new batch of wax even if its the same wax you ordered before. Get in the habit of paying attention to the lot numbers for your wax. Every case has a lot number from the manufacturer. These are readily available on the case somewhere. If something is wrong with the wax you can identify the batch by the lot number. This is in addition to your regular wax testing for your candles. You still want to test your candle assembly for proper wicking.

No problem. This forum is actually the reason why I started out the way I did, so thank you!

Okay. So when I get a new lot of wax, what is the recommended approach? Do I test plain, unaltered wax candles to specifically test the wax without any additives? Do I just use my existing recipes and do a test batch in each lot? And what would you consider to be a sufficient sample size? What's your litmus test for "okay this is good to go"? Three good candles? Twelve good candles? Three good, separate batches of candles? How do you know it's ready for sale?

Also, what do you do if you get a weird batch of wax?

7 hours ago, moonshine said:

What size Eco wick did you put in those unscented dyed jelly jars for your friend to sell?

did you power burn them like a consumer may from start to finish to see how hot they get unattended several times?

eco is a very hot wick and 464 is a very soft soy....recent changes in the soy industry have resulted in very experienced chandlers having to work out serious issues with burns and 464 being one that is burning way hotter than normal so I am a little concerned in such a short time you have product going out into consumers hands 

do you have insurance? Is the product labeled correctly?

when you started dabbling in adding fragrance was this a new batch of wax? 

Where are you buying your wax and Eco wicks?

candy has pretty much said it all in her advice to you and we are all willing to help you along the way so long as you understand becoming a chandler is not an overnight occurrence- it will take tons of Time, tests and money and insurance is a must if your anyone outside of you is burning your candles 

- I tested ECO 6, 8, 10, 12, and it's always come back to 8 vs 10. The 8s look like they start weak vs the 10s that get that perfect initial melt pool. By the end, the 8s are uuusually the best option as the 10s get a big flame and leave a bunch of soot, even with wick trimming - which is a pain in the butt with the ECO.

- For my power burn, I burned them for as long as I was awake, which is usually about 14-16hrs. I don't feel comfortable letting them go unattended while I sleep. Am I supposed to let them burn while I sleep? D:

- Zero candles have been sold or given to consumers so far. Despite having a consistent unscented candle product for awhile, I've been waiting on some info from the client (for packaging purposes) and was going to do legal this month. I plan on doing an LLC with proper insurance, but no need to incorporate early if client is dragging his heels. Or if the product dev on the non-client, scented candles isn't coming along either haha. If I can't get a safe product for the holidays, it would probably be more advantageous to start in the new fiscal year.

- The products have those little warning stickers. Do I need more?

- When I dabbled in adding fragrance, it was the same batch of wax, but new bags of ECOs.

- I bought the 464 and ECOs from CandleScience. My new order of Premiers and CDs are from The Flaming Candle Co.

So what does "tons of time, tests, and money..." look like to you? When you are working on a new FO/dye combo, how much time and how many tests do you anticipate? What's your litmus test for "ahah! it's finally ready"?

Also how do you work with the instability in the soy industry? Inconsistent materials is a nightmare. Do you retest each product in every new 50lb bag/box of wax? Do you test only if it's from a different lot number? Do I have to test every new bag of wicks too?

And thank you for the help. I fully understand that the development process can take time. I thought maybe I had gotten lucky with the wax/wick/container combo when the unscented candles came together so easily and consistently...

38 minutes ago, Candybee said:

Sorry but having a good, safe, saleable candle ready for October is an unreasonable expectation. It can take months to a couple of years testing to get that far. I am also concerned that you took this assignment without being an experienced chandler. If you want to make candles your first priority should be to make ones that are safe, burn and scent well. This can only be achieved with thorough testing and diligence.

 

Your initial testing should be with the wax, wick, and jar only. This will be by far the hardest part of your testing. Getting the wicking down is paramount to having a safe candle with an optimal burn. Get to know your wax inside and out and how it works before taking on additives like fragrance or color. Any additives add to the equation and may effect the quality of the burn. If you don't know your wax first you will have a harder time eliminating any problems.

 

Once you have your wicking down you may start with additives like scent and color. You may even find you need to change your wick size up or down or completely out. That's how much a single additive can change the candle burn.

 

There are a lot of people here who can help you out with your wax and wick selection and I hope they chime in for you. Please don't give up because it is more involved than you were expecting. I hope you are willing to take on this challenge as making candles can be fun, exciting and also rewarding. Especially when your customer comes back and tells you what a great candle it was and they want more.

Thank you! I will toss that timeline right out the window then.

I have been testing the scent-free candles for the client all summer. I've made dozens of plain, no-color 464 in these jars with the ECOs. Then I added colors. Made dozens with the 464, these jars, and the ECOs. It all went extremely smooth and consistently.  Then I started to dabble in the FO candles. I guess I was expecting it to be a smooth process like the other non-scented batches have been. The scent-free, consistently tested candles are for the client. The FOs are new and just for my own personal business, so there's no actual deadline or client or anything.

I guess maybe I was just really lucky with the non-scented candles?

I'll keep working on it. I enjoy it so far.

Background: A client commissioned me to develop a line of scent-free, colored candles for his business. I learned how to make them by scouring the internet (including this forum) and finally settled on 464, ECO wicks, and 8oz tapered jelly jars. They're pretty great. But THEN I thought I'd look into doing my own small candle business using FOs and started having all sorts of issues with my new batches of ECO wicks...

1) Is there an issue with ECO wick consistency? I've read mixed reviews. Some people love them. Some websites recommend them as the go-to wick for 464. And others are upset, like me. I made little test batches using 1oz FO samples, yielding me three candles in the 8oz jelly jars (using 1oz FO to 18.4oz 464) with one ECO8 wick jar and two ECO10 wick jars to compare. The ECO10 wicks burn differently from each other despite being from the same batch. Some of them even self extinguish in 15-30 minutes, while the other 10 from the batch burns fine. Sometimes the hot throw is great on one and weak on another - from the same batch, both ECO10 wicks. What's going on?

Oh. I'm not sure if it matters, but I mix FO and dye at 185F and pour around 135F (give or take a few degrees). Jars pre-warmed in the oven. Everything looks pretty, minus a few little sinkholes. The candles cured for 7-8 days before testing.

2) How long should I let the 464 cure before testing wicks? I've read that some people say one week and others swear by two. Will waiting that extra week have an impact on which wick I choose? Or would I make the same wick decision at one week? What's the shortest time for curing 464 where you would feel safe selecting a wick?

3) Anyone have wick recommendations for Premiers or CDs in the 8oz jelly jars (2.75in diameter)? I bought all six sizes of each brand that fell in the "2-3in" category. Am I being wasteful by testing all 6 sizes?

4) How long is your timeline for testing and developing new products for sale? This may be a dumb noob thing for me to try, but I was hoping to get 6-9 different FOs in my shop at launch, and hoping to launch in mid October. When the ECOs started going wonky, it totally threw off my timeline and now I am rushing and trying to pick a new wick. With potentially 14 days for cure time, 8 days for normal testing (4hr burns) and 3 days for power testing (8-12hr burns), that leaves me with a 25 day dev time - IF everything goes right, that is. Am I doing it wrong?

My ultimate goal is a good product that I love and have confidence in. If I have to push my launch out a bit to get that, then that's okay. I reeeeeeally wanted to make the most of the pumpkin season, but I would rather wait than put out an iffy product. This whole mess with the ECOs has given me a massive headache and I want to put together a realistic timeline before I cry in my candles.

And BTW, as someone who has lurked for months on this forum, gleaning every bit of info that I can from you guys, thank you very much for all of your help so far.