what is..

[CranberryGirl]

what is Melt and Pour soap?????

I bought goatsmilk M&P from BCN and I was wondering what it is...is it the same thing that you get in commercial bars????? or is there a difference?

Thankssss

Tara

[scents for me]

Well Tara girl, seems to me it would have been a smart thing to find out BEFORE you bought it. Think about it.

[RobinInOR]

M&P soap is a combination of true soap, surfactants that help with cleansing and lather, and other ingredients that give it the ability to be melted again and again (which is hard to do a lot with straight soap). If it's clear, then something like an alcohol or other solvent to dissolve the soap into a transparent form.

Commercial soaps are made in a similar manner. It will be real soap (ie, Dove has sodium tallowate which is saponified tallow), as well as individual fatty acids, other surfactants....

CP/HP soaps that we make are usually made up of "whole" saponified oils - we don't usually add other surfactants or worry about being able to melt it.

[CranberryGirl]

Thank you Robin...

I knew M&P was simmular I was just not how simmular it was to the commerical soaps on the market....

So the only advantage of using melt and pour is addin the color you want and the scent and makeing it any desired shape you would like..and maybe adding a few other ingreadiants to it....

that' about it right?

In CP/HP your making from scratch,and Your using better whole oils...rather then detergents...

The thing I guess I wonder about is the lye..I think, i know the lye comes out after the cp/hp is done with it's process...so it is then not considered a Chemical additive?

soo to sound soo silly..or plain stupid..but I am just tring to understand this whole thing....and what the differences...

and the qualties are....I see a difference in just using M&P with goat milk that i added olive oil to...compaired to say lever2000..that kills my skin..the stuff i made felt better...

maybe it's my imagination...

hehehehehe.. Sorry again..I am not tring to bother anyone just tring to understand..

Thanks

Tara

[RobinInOR]

Not silly at all.

When you make CP/HP it's a reaction. So the lye is transformed into something else, it's no longer lye. You need that strong base to run the saponification reaction, that's what makes the sodium palmate, sodium tallowate, sodium whateverate If you can find a commercial soap with an ingredient list (or even a m&p ingredient list), you'll see the sodium xxxxate listed. That's a "soap" molecule.

Since you can't make soap without the reaction somewhere in it's life cycle, I wouldn't call lye a "chemical additive" like I might call SLS or some of the other surfactants. It's a necessary catalyst to the chemical reaction.

And I think M&P is going to be better/more conditioning than any commercial soap, even if it *isn't* 100% "true soap in the molecule sense" So it's not your imagination.

[Fern-Marie]

Hi, I hope you don't mind if I jump in on this and ask Robin a question.

I was thinking about buying a pre-made, clear glycerine type soap and adding a skin-safe fragrance to it.

Is this do-able? Is this what it's for? I do not want to get overwhelmed with a new project, but would very much like to try it.

Can you suggest a good pre-made soap. I saw a sit called Mabel White, but I just am not knowledgeable enough to keep myself from getting disappointed.

I really appreciate and value your input on this.

Thanks, Fern-Marie

[prairieannie]

Hi, I hope you don't mind if I jump in on this and ask Robin a question.

I was thinking about buying a pre-made, clear glycerine type soap and adding a skin-safe fragrance to it.

Is this do-able? Is this what it's for? I do not want to get overwhelmed with a new project, but would very much like to try it.

Can you suggest a good pre-made soap. I saw a sit called Mabel White, but I just am not knowledgeable enough to keep myself from getting disappointed.

I really appreciate and value your input on this.

Thanks, Fern-Marie

When you say "premade" do you mean a Melt and Pour Base? Or a bar of clear unscented glycerin soap that you buy at the store?

[CranberryGirl]

Sooooo If get This strait.. In the M&P Base i used...#7, #8,and #12...would be the synthetic detergents? Does soap need a preservitive? or does it naturaly have one?

Here is the ingedients list...Thanks for being patient!!!!

1. Coconut Oil - bleached & deodorized

2. Sodium Cocoate

3. Sodium Myristate

4. Sodium Laurate

5. Sodium Stearate

6. Sodium Laureth Sulfate

7. Glycerin (12-15%)

8. Propylene Glycol

9. Triethanolamine

10. Goat Milk

11. Water

12. DMDM Hydantoin

INCI Names for labeling:

Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Sodium Cocoate, Sodium Myristate, Sodium Laurate, Sodium Stearate, Sodium Laureth Sulfate, Glycerin, Propylene Glycol, Triethanolamine, Goat Milk, Water, DMDM Hydantoin.

[RobinInOR]

I don't know if you could buy one of the bars of clear glycerin soap at the grocery store and remelt it, but yes, you could buy a base at one of the suppliers (and even JoAnns has a base tho it isn't the greatest) and melt it and add fragrance and color, and that's it.

Sooooo If get This strait.. In the M&P Base i used...#7, #8,and #12...would be the synthetic detergents? Does soap need a preservitive? or does it naturaly have one?

Here is the ingedients list...Thanks for being patient!!!!

1. Coconut Oil - bleached & deodorized - coconut oil not saponified

2. Sodium Cocoate - saponified coconut oil

3. Sodium Myristate - a saponified fatty acid - many oils contain myristic acid, so they just bought it on it's own instead of using the myristic acid that's "naturally" in an oil

4. Sodium Laurate - saponified lauric acid

5. Sodium Stearate - saponified stearic acid

6. Sodium Laureth Sulfate - a surfactant

7. Glycerin (12-15%) - could be added, or if they were making soap, it's a natural result of the saponification reaction

8. Propylene Glycol - a solvent

9. Triethanolamine - hmmm, i think this is a chelator to help it not form soap scum, not sure actually.

10. Goat Milk

11. Water

12. DMDM Hydantoin - a preserviative

INCI Names for labeling:

Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Sodium Cocoate, Sodium Myristate, Sodium Laurate, Sodium Stearate, Sodium Laureth Sulfate, Glycerin, Propylene Glycol, Triethanolamine, Goat Milk, Water, DMDM Hydantoin.

Now, as far as the sodium myristate, sodium laurate, sodium stearate, the more I look at this, it could very well be that all that's in this is saponified coconut oil. And they way they are labeling it is they are labeling what's left after the reaction. So those first 5 ingredients might be all from one oil - the first is the plain oil, the next 4 are the pieces of the coconut oil after it's fatty acids have been split apart.

Trying to figure out how they made something from a label is hard. You don't know if they're labeling what went *in* to the reaction, or what's left *after* the reaction. So in this case, they could be labeling what's left after saponifying coconut oil, or they could have bought myristic acid and stearic acid and lauric acid individually and added that in to the mix. Who knows

[Fern-Marie]

When you say "premade" do you mean a Melt and Pour Base? Or a bar of clear unscented glycerin soap that you buy at the store?

I believe it is a gallon sized jug of liquid soap that one can use as their 'base'...now you see how ignorant I am of this, I didn't know it had to be melted. I see it being sold on various 'soap making' sites, and thought I would like to try it.

I also have seen the Glycerin bars....but thought that with my lack of experience, the already liquified base would be my best shot. I use a soap made by Kiss My Face..it is a clear soap in a bottle and is fragranced with the Sinus Relief scent...I put in in the shower and let the water drain slowly and on my chest when I am congested. This Sinus Relief scent (I make wickless )is HUGE in my area..I literally cannot keep in on the shelf, hence, the replication idea.

Am I getting in over my head here? I am really looking for a simple mixer-upper.

I have to give you ladies credit, you have a wealth of knowledge that I can't even pretend to understand.

And...prairieannie, I am sorry but I though in the past that I may have referred to you as prairieJeannie...oops...pardon!

Thanks so very much for your help.

Fern-Marie

[RobinInOR]

The gallon you speak of is a liquid soap, that you'd fragrance. Yes, it would be that simple, you don't have to melt anything. I thought you were talking about a hard melt & pour base. Melt & Pour gives you a hard formed bar, like cold process and hard process soapmaking. The stuff you've got will stay liquid, and you'd scent it and keep it in a bottle...

[prairieannie]

I believe it is a gallon sized jug of liquid soap that one can use as their 'base'...now you see how ignorant I am of this, I didn't know it had to be melted. I see it being sold on various 'soap making' sites, and thought I would like to try it.

I also have seen the Glycerin bars....but thought that with my lack of experience, the already liquified base would be my best shot. I use a soap made by Kiss My Face..it is a clear soap in a bottle and is fragranced with the Sinus Relief scent...I put in in the shower and let the water drain slowly and on my chest when I am congested. This Sinus Relief scent (I make wickless )is HUGE in my area..I literally cannot keep in on the shelf, hence, the replication idea.

Am I getting in over my head here? I am really looking for a simple mixer-upper.

I have to give you ladies credit, you have a wealth of knowledge that I can't even pretend to understand.

And...prairieannie, I am sorry but I though in the past that I may have referred to you as prairieJeannie...oops...pardon!

Thanks so very much for your help.

Fern-Marie

LOLOL, Prairieannie, Prairiejeanie..whatever! I didn't see it, and would have laughed had I noticed! It's okay I don't think you can get much simpler than melt and pour soap. The gallons of liquid are quite easy too..I think the biggest caution with those is adding too much FO..they tend to get watery, and then a thickening agent is needed.

[Fern-Marie]

That's what I want!! Thanks a bunch!!

PSYCHE!

Now, have you any idea of where I can buy a good jug of the stuff? I like bubbles. Whose is good?

You are super, thank you so much. I feel at ease. Phew! thought I was in waaayy over my head.

Fern-Marie

[CranberryGirl]

Thanks for the breakdown!

That has helped alot!!!!! I think I am starting to understand it a bit better now!

Tara

[RobinInOR]

And just as a comparison, here's the ingredient list for Dove, that bar that so many of our customers say they can't live without

Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate, Stearic Acid, Sodium Tallowate, Water, Sodium Isethionate, Coconut Acid, Sodium Stearate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Sodium Cocoate or Sodium Palm Kernelate, Fragrance, Sodium Chloride, Titanium Dioxide, Tetrasodium EDTA, Trisodium Etidronate, BHT, Sodium Dodecyl Benzene Sulfonate

Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate - Jordapon Prilled Surfactant. Mild & creamy

Stearic Acid - a fatty acid, makes soap hard

Sodium Tallowate - saponified tallow

Water -

Sodium Isethionate - detergent

Coconut Acid - not sure about this, some kind of cleanser?

Sodium Stearate - fatty acid - saponified stearic acid

Cocamidopropyl Betaine - detergent

Sodium Cocoate or Sodium Palm Kernelate - saponified coconut oil or palm kernal oil - for the lather

Sodium Chloride - salt

Titanium Dioxide - white colorant

Tetrasodium EDTA -reacts with metals, lessens soap scum, a chelator

BHT - antioxidant

Sodium Dodecyl Benzene Sulfonate - surfactant?

A detergent is a cleanser like soap, but not made with fatty acids. A surfactant is a general term meaning a compound that is active at a boundary layer - it reduces surface tension. I guess soap and detergents could be classified as surfactants in general terms.

[Gypsyjen]

Hmmm...so, which part of that ingredient list constitutes the 90-some-odd-percent "moisturizing cream" they always advertise?