NewInTheBiz Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Also, can we use food flavoring instead of FO? Is water soluble better to use in a diffuser? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewInTheBiz Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 Also, are EO's oil or water soluble? Are do tey come in both?Do EO's generally have more scent throw?Sorry about all the questions. I am just starting out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) Think about this... you are basically asking if OILS are water soluble and the answer too that is always no. Fragrance OILS are not water soluble because they are OILS. The same holds true for EOs (essential oils). These are oil-based substances. To get them to mix with water, they would have to have an emulsifier added to them. Anything wax based (candles, tarts, etc.) requires oil-based fragrance materials because waxes are oil-based. For water-containing products, an emulsifier is used to disburse the FO or EO.can we use food flavoring instead of FOOnly for flavored products, such as lip balms. Not for scenting. Is water soluble better to use in a diffuser?That depends on the kind of diffuser. If, for example, you are using reed diffusers, you would use FO with something like DPG or a carrier oil.Do EO's generally have more scent throw?I am assuming you are asking how EOs and FOs compare to one another... That depends on the concentration, but in general, no. EOs are made from plant materials and are far more fragile than are FOs, which are engineered fragrance chemicals for use in candlemaking, bath & body or other similar product manufacturing. My best advice is for you to read, read, read. It helps, when you ask questions, to give us some idea of what you are doing because it makes a difference in the answer, ie. are you interested in making candles, tarts, soap, cosmetics, or what? Have fun & HTH : ) Edited October 31, 2011 by Stella1952 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewInTheBiz Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 Thanks for the feedback Stella but there are some points that need fine-tuning. I think you are wrong when you say "always no" to oils being water soluble. DEP, PG, and glycerin, for example, are water soluble oils. So is ethanol, which is often used as a carrier or solvent in fragrance and flavoring.In another thread, I indicated that I wanted to know what solvents FO's are based on and was told that it is proprietary and that no manufacture would tell me. That is one reason I would like to use flavoring as manufacturers are required by the FDA to tell you. Usually flavoring is based on one or more of the following solvents: PG, glycerin, soy oil, ethanol, and/or water. Soy oil would not be water soluble but the others are.I want to use FO's (or flavoring) in ultrasonic diffusers. Why do you suggest flavoring for lip balm but not scenting. Many of the molecules used in flavoring are the same as those used in FO's. It is just not FDA approved. In fact, some perfumists use favoring in their formulations. I would like to use flavoring as the manufacturers are more transparent as to what the flavoring contains. Flavoring must never contain DPG but they could be diluted with DPG for use as a fragrance. Is there any reason flavoring could not be used as fragrance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 DEP, PG, and glycerin, for example, are water soluble oils. So is ethanol, which is often used as a carrier or solvent in fragrance and flavoring.Those are not oils. Please brush up on your chemistry. Oils (lipids) are not soluble in water. Google "are oils soluble in water" and see what you come up with...I wanted to know what solvents FO's are based on and was told that it is proprietary and that no manufacture would tell me.All fragrance manufacturers are required to have MSDS on their products.Why do you suggest flavoring for lip balm but not scentingBecause people lick their lips. How their lips smell is of less concern, although people do like a fresh fragrance in lip balm also. Flavoring is for the gustatory sense and scenting is for the olfactory sense - they ARE different senses. Because flavorings are formulated for flavoring, they may contain chemicals that would not be effective or desirable in a fragrance oil. Just because something is manufactured to cosmetic, food or edible standards does not mean it would make a better air fragrance! I think there may be a cost differential also...I want to use FO's (or flavoring) in ultrasonic diffusersThere are pure flavoring exrtacts on the baking aisle of the grocery store. Test it and see what happens... and please post your results so we can all learn with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewInTheBiz Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 Those are not oils. Please brush up on your chemistry. Oils (lipids) are not soluble in water."Oil" is a misnomer. As used in the flavor and fragrance industry, "oil" does not necessarily mean "lipids." Many so called fragrance oils and flavoring oils use alcohols, PG, DPG, etc. as their base liquid or carrier for the various molecules that make up the scent. Many of these formulations do not use lipids and are not oil soluble. There are pure flavoring exrtacts on the baking aisle of the grocery store. Test it and see what happens... and please post your results so we can all learn with you. While I do not buy these from grocery stores, I have tested some flavoring as scents in diffusers. Some have strong scent throw, others very little. Spearmint, peppermint have excellent scent throw. I am still testing them. Has anyone else tested flavoring as a scent or fragrance?Today, I put some EO in water for use in a diffuser and it looked like an oil slick. I would think that a water soluble food flavoring would be kinder on a diffuser and easier for the consumer to clean than an oil soluble scent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTayl Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I've talked directly with fragrance houses about getting water miscible fragrances so I can more easily mix fragrance with clear hair products. Those fragrances sold as water miscible are mixed with a surfactant, or other 'proprietary' substance to make the fragrance oil miscible. Some EO's are naturally water miscible.If you're into experimenting, you would do well to find the ingredients that will make your FO water miscible if that's what you're after. It will save you $ in the short and long run. Without knowing the formulation in the proprietary blends of each manufacturer's particular FO range this will be a case by case experiment. The CoA and MSDS for each fragrance you purchase may help narrow the variables somewhat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Here's a source I just rediscovered in my bookmarks that may be of help to you in your quest...http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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