Palm Wax has no scent throw.

[ADent1]

I am about to LOSE MY MIND!!! Everyone has said that palm wax has an awesome scent throw..originally I used soy wax and found that there wasn't enough time in the day to get that stuff right lol. Anyway, a couple of weeks ago I started using palm wax from peak candles. I was so excited! Now that I am finally pouring they have absolutely NO scent. They have a cold scent throw, but no hot scent throw whatsoever. I feel like I'm working with soy all over again! I am pouring at a little under 200 degrees...mixing the fragrances in the wax for 2 minutes, using a wick that peak candles suggested for palm wax. I need help!! I have a craft show next week and I am getting no where making candles that can't even be sold

[Lorelei]

I think that you will get somewhere but I don't know if it will be next week before your show. You need to test each fragrance exactly the same with the wax and the wicks, burn at intervals, and you'll need a cure time. I don't know how you can accomplish this before your show and have excellent quality candles with great throw and candles that are safe. I only make palm/soy candles but I know my palm tarts still need a cure time too. Maybe if you will tell a few more details like amount of fragrance, what jars, what fragrances which palm wax, size/type of wick, how long they have cured....maybe we can help.

[Stella1952]

This belongs in the veggie wax forum.

When you repost there, please tell us which palm wax you are using, what wick, what diameter container (if any) or what diameter pillar, what FO and how much you added.

I have a craft show next week and I am getting no where making candles that can't even be sold

You should not be even thinking of selling any candles you cannot test thoroughly. It takes more than "a couple of weeks" to learn a new wax, perform due diligence in testing and then pour & package for sale. Forget having these ready by next weekend.

originally I used soy wax and found that there wasn't enough time in the day to get that stuff right lol

Odd. Many of us have had great success with soy wax. Since you did not see that through and now are having trouble with palm wax, I surely hope you do not try to sell your candles to the general public!

Edited October 24, 2011 by Stella1952

[ADent1]

I have heard nothing about soy except that it eats fragrance and is hard to figure out. Clearly, I am not going to sell these if they don't even have a scent throw lol. I'm not trying to give myself a bad name..I am using RRD wicks, so far I have used pumpkin spice, blueberry muffin, creme brulee, sugar cookie, and cinnamon bun just to name a few. I let the candles cure for 24 hrs and did a test, no scent. I did another test after curing for 3 days, no scent. And I just tried one today that I made over a week ago, and there is still no scent throw. Their cold scent throw is amazing though! For the most part I am using votive molds for my testsers..any suggestions would be great. Thanks

[ADent1]

Also, I am using feather palm wax for pillars and votives. Which I previously stated I had bought from peak candles. I am also using 1 oz of fragrance per lb of wax.

Edited October 24, 2011 by ADent1

[EricofAZ]

ADent1, I am concerned that you are using a very hot burning wax and its not working right for you and you plan to sell. Do you have insurance? You can get it affordably and there are some folks on the business forum that can direct you.

As for testing, I agree with Stella, we can help you if you post all the info and then test a bit after we share with you. We're not looking for your formulas, we have our own, a lot actually, so our help really is based on knowing all the details.

[sjconner]

I am testing palm pillars and have started selling palm tarts. I discovered that my palm tarts needed at least a 48 hour cure time and pillars did much better after at least a week cure time. Because votives have a small melt pool, you may not get tons of scent from them (especially in large room). Don't forget chandler's nose.

Susan

[sporadic]

You need to cure them for AT LEAST a week before testing the hot throw.

[sisters3]

Adent1, sorry that you are having trouble and with a show coming up. I will say that it took me almost a full year to get close to satisfaction working with soy, I use GB464 and love it. I had a similar problem and it was my fault. Here was the issue. I was weighing my wax in solid form (lbs) and measuring my FO in liquid measure (ozs) When I did the CORRECT math and equation, weighing EVERYTHING in oz, I was actually using a fragrence load of just over 5%, really, really weak. I now am VERY PRECISE with my math and use a 10% load for the most part.

I don't know much about palm wax, but maybe take a CLOSE LOOK at your math and measuring techniques? Just a suggestion. Hope you get it figured out, I know very well how frustrating it can be, like I said it took me almost a year of testing before I found a good technique, and I STILL have to tweak from time to time.

[Beth]

Adent1, sorry that you are having trouble and with a show coming up. I will say that it took me almost a full year to get close to satisfaction working with soy, I use GB464 and love it. I had a similar problem and it was my fault. Here was the issue. I was weighing my wax in solid form (lbs) and measuring my FO in liquid measure (ozs) When I did the CORRECT math and equation, weighing EVERYTHING in oz, I was actually using a fragrence load of just over 5%, really, really weak. I now am VERY PRECISE with my math and use a 10% load for the most part.

I don't know much about palm wax, but maybe take a CLOSE LOOK at your math and measuring techniques? Just a suggestion. Hope you get it figured out, I know very well how frustrating it can be, like I said it took me almost a year of testing before I found a good technique, and I STILL have to tweak from time to time.

Major headache today; not fully functioning here... can you explain that again? About how you measure now as opposed to before, because it's not computing in my brain..lol

[sisters3]

Major headache today; not fully functioning here... can you explain that again? About how you measure now as opposed to before, because it's not computing in my brain..lol

Haha, gives me a headache everytime. Well I was using a liquid measure for the FO (like a shot glass) and a tare scale for my wax (in lbs) and never converting the wax to oz to figure out scent load, when I finally did do the math I found that using 1 oz (liquid measure) to 1lb wax was a very low scent load (about 6%) which in my GB464 was very weak. So now I convert the wax lbs to oz AND I weigh my scent oil on my tare scale. All after I have done the math for each batch, like this:

(___) of containers x (____) capacity per container= X / 20 = (____) lbs of wax needed or (_____oz) then

(____) oz of wax x 10% = (____) oz of FO needed per batach (weight no volume)

Did I just make your headache worse?

Edited to say, there was quite a discrepancy when I actually WEIGHED my FO

Edited October 25, 2011 by sisters3
clarity

[IwantItgreen]

Here's a little trick I use. This equals out to be about a 7 - 7.5% FO load: For every Ounceof wax add 2 grams of FO. ie for 7.5 oz of wax, you add 15 grams of FO; for 16 oz of wax you add 32 grams of FO, etc. (there are 28 grams/oz, so you see that you are a little over the 6% FO load.)

[Stella1952]

The OP hasn't posted the pertinent data about their candles, so we can't know what issues are affecting the throw of their candles.

a very low scent load (about 6%) which in my GB464 was very weak

People should always remember that a successful candle is a SYSTEM. All the parts and the way they are manufactured work together. Hot throw is NOT simply dependent on the amount of FO used. With soy candles, more is NOT better. Often, by adjusting other components of the system, the same HT can be achieved without using more FO, which is an expensive ingredient that causes problems with polymorphism. The more oil that is added to soy wax, the more difficult it is to burn. Soy wax is already comparatively more difficult to burn than paraffin, so it makes sense to adjust other components of the system instead so one add the least amount of FO one can to achieve the desired results.

using 1 oz (liquid measure) to 1lb wax

One of the first rules of good formulating anything, from cake mix to candles to concrete, is to WEIGH the ingredients. Seasoned candlemakers know this and often forget to mention it because it is such a basic rule. Volume is an inaccurate way to measure. Volume refers to the amount of SPACE a substance takes up; weight refers to its mass. Weight is absolute (at sea level under normal atmospheric pressure at a constant temperature) whereas volume is not. Different FOs weigh different amounts, so if one uses volume as their measure, they may actually be using more or less in terms of weight. Another way of understanding this is to imagine the space a pound of feathers takes up versus a pound of lead. This is why cereal, potato chips, etc. are sold by weight and not by volume. The container may appear to be less than full but the weight of product it contains is the same as when you shake it up. Savvy bakers weigh their ingredients because the volume differs if the ingredient is packed (which reduces the air space between the particles). A consistent product cannot be achieved by using volume as the measure. HTH Edited October 26, 2011 by Stella1952

[sisters3]

Oh I agree 100% Stella, great points, I don't think I articulated properly what I was trying to say. My MAJOR issue with a particular FO was that due to improper weighing techniques I greatly underscented. I personally start testing a new FO at 8%, and adjust if I have wicking, HT, or other issues. I am keeping my containers consistent and my wicks. I'm a big tester and I need a consistent "jumping off point" I mean I was just sharing one POSSIBLE issue that it might have been and tried to say that a blunder like mine, in any wax, will have consequences.

Edited October 26, 2011 by sisters3

[Stella1952]

I was just sharing one POSSIBLE issue that it might have been

I'm glad you brought it up because we have a number of wet-behind-the-ears newbies at this time and I don't recall going over the "weight vs. volume" measurement issue recently... It's VERY important if one wants to achieve consistent quality in their candles. Experienced candle makers forget to discuss very basic issues of candle making sometimes... (guilty).

[Jillsthings]

My first couple batches were before I realized how to properly weigh everything, and they turned out terrible. I went and got a small kitchen scale and now the candles are turning out great! I usually use around 8.5% FO load.

ETA: I also found this site, which was very helpful in figuring it all out.

Edited October 26, 2011 by Jillsthings
Add a link

[sisters3]

I'm glad you brought it up because we have a number of wet-behind-the-ears newbies at this time and I don't recall going over the "weight vs. volume" measurement issue recently... It's VERY important if one wants to achieve consistent quality in their candles. Experienced candle makers forget to discuss very basic issues of candle making sometimes... (guilty).

Oh boy, is that ever the truth, I will NEVER forget the day I went BACK to the drawing board yet again and saw what I was doing wrong with my measuring technique. I've never been a "math head" but boy candle making has really put that part of my brain back on track. I think that is one of the things that I love about the process.....the science of it all....well, and the feeling I get with a successful recipe

Edited to say that I really feel bad for the OP because of her upcoming show, I would be in a panic. Good luck to her, hope she lets us know how she makes out.

Edited October 27, 2011 by sisters3

[Stella1952]

I made lots of spread sheets to figure out all this stuff. I seldom use them now. I don't make small batches any more. I use 16 oz. of wax + 1 oz. of FO (1 oz per pound)... whatever that works out to in percentage, I don't much care.

OK OK, I'll stop being curmudgeonly - my handy dandy online calculator says this works out to 5.88235294117647% (1 oz. is 5.88% of 17 ounces - gotta remember the total amount of "wax stuff" is 17 oz. and not 16 oz.). So, not quite 6%.

I want a candle that burns safely & efficiently, is not overly prone to frosting, has a pleasing appearance and has a pleasing scent throw. I don't vary what I do to suit a "particular" FO. The stuff either works with my system, or it goes on the "reject" shelf. There're too many products that DO work very well at that percentage.

[jeanie353]

I have heard nothing about soy except that it eats fragrance and is hard to figure out. Clearly, I am not going to sell these if they don't even have a scent throw lol. I'm not trying to give myself a bad name..I am using RRD wicks, so far I have used pumpkin spice, blueberry muffin, creme brulee, sugar cookie, and cinnamon bun just to name a few. I let the candles cure for 24 hrs and did a test, no scent. I did another test after curing for 3 days, no scent. And I just tried one today that I made over a week ago, and there is still no scent throw. Their cold scent throw is amazing though! For the most part I am using votive molds for my testsers..any suggestions would be great. Thanks

Sometimes a wick burns too hot even without giving too large MP and causes fragrance to burn off. Personally, I don't use RRD wicks since I find they torch. Others may chime in on success with them.