Catch Up on 2nd Burn With CD10

[sisters3]

Hi there, quick question. Should I accept this?

GB464, 8oz jelly jar, Chocolate Chip FO from CS, and first time with CD10

The HT was super BUT I did not get even close to a pretty nice melt pool until 3 hours and even then it was NOT the entire way, some hang up on jar sides. Then on burn #2 this morning had really nice melt pool that even took care of the hung up wax on jar sides.

Would you...or Should I accept this as a successful burn test? This is my first use of the CD10 wick, I normally use ECO 10 and decided to test the CD's because I thought that the ECO 10 was a tad too much.

Any thoughts? Thanks so much!!

[lilcountrymama]

You don't need a fmp on the first burn sometimes not even the second as long as it eventually catches up I would be more concerned about the middle of the jar that's when things start to go wrong

[leenabug]

IF it were me, i would be fine with that test burn. Even with that, by the time you get to the halfway point of the candle, the cd-10 might seems still a little to big. Some even use a cd-8 in their 8oz jj. However, Im like you, I use the cd-10 the most with 464 in an 8oz jj. I recently tried some eco-8 in the same scents, same jar, same wax and it drowned out on the first test burn, but then by the 3rd or 4th test burn, it was "catching up". However, I did NOT consider it a successfull test burn because at no point is a drowned out wick gonna be accepted by a customer. They dont have a problem with hang up as long as its gone by the time they get to the bottom of the jar, but a drowning wick = non useable candle to most people.

[sisters3]

OK great, thanks so much, I WILL consider this a success. The same happend to me with testing an ECO 8, drowned out really fast, hence the CD10 test.

lilcountrymama....good point, I will focus on the middle of the jar

Thanks again friends!

[lilcountrymama]

Let us know how it goes

[rjdaines]

Sounds near perfect to me, keep burning it and I think you may be surprised how well it ends up. As said above, you may even think that last 1/3 is too hot.

[moonshine]

I also use 464 but with the 8 ounce square mason jar, I primarily test with the cd10 and the htp 105- and I am finding in some of tests the cd10 gets very hot towards the end but the cd8 is not enough, drowns out. I like the cds much better than the htps, I find htp sometimes gives off a weird smell and the the hot throw is not as good- even though the burn is sometimes better- the htp 104's are never enough either

For me the 10 has been the winner for the majority but I am retesting alot of the scents now in the cdn 10 to see if it makes a difference at all

Let us know how it goes for you at the end- I would love to hear your results as I am always testing and questioning wick decisions!

[Stella1952]

Sounds like the Sisters are on a roll!! Do watch for the container becoming too hot toward the end, but so far, so good. How's the hot throw?

8 ounce square mason jar

That size and the JJ above are both ones that often sit squarely in the middle between an 8 and a 10. Try CDNs and see if that makes a difference. Your container is bound to heat up more at the end because of its shape - it holds in the heat more... A round, straight sided container would be less of a PITA in this respect.

[sisters3]

Hello all!! Well 3/4 way through the candle and its perfect and the HT is super!! I am so thankful for finding you all, I was sure that I had failed when I saw how long the first burn to MP took. YOU WERE RIGHT!! I will let you know how the jar heat is, should be done on the next burn?? Looks like I will stick with the CD10 with my 8oz jj for now, although I won't just assume other FOs, I will always test. If you have not tried the Chocolate Chip from CS you must..its great!!

[lilcountrymama]

That's awesome glad to hear its working out and no mushrooms either?

[sisters3]

That's awesome glad to hear its working out and no mushrooms either?

Just a bit of a mushroom, not bad at all. I am REALLY happy with this combination. It makes me happy because I love working with the GB464. Finished burning and the jar is just warm. I could pick it up and hold it.

I consider the candle done now, left a bit less than 1/4" wax at the bottom, don't you think?

[rjdaines]

Here is the general safety rule for when to stop burning a candle: Don't burn a candle all the way down. Extinguish the flame if it comes too close to the holder or container. For a margin of safety, discontinue burning a candle when 2 inches of wax remains or ½ inch if in a container.

http://www.candles.org/safety_rules.html

[sisters3]

Here is the general safety rule for when to stop burning a candle: Don't burn a candle all the way down. Extinguish the flame if it comes too close to the holder or container. For a margin of safety, discontinue burning a candle when 2 inches of wax remains or ½ inch if in a container.

http://www.candles.org/safety_rules.html

Great information, thank you!

[Stella1952]

I consider the candle done now, left a bit less than 1/4" wax at the bottom, don't you think?

To clarify, when we say "burn it all the way down" (or "the bitter end") we mean "burn the candle until the wick self extinguishes at the top of the wick tab." A container candle should self-extinguish at about 1/2" remaining wax. If yours went to 1/4" and you could still have burned it more, you may need to look at two things for safety reasons: 1) the height of the wick tab (wicktabs come in various neck heights) and 2) how you are adhering your wicktab to the bottom of your container. Even a wicktab with a tall neck height will continue burning if it can suck liquid wax from UNDERNEATH the tab. When testing, this isn't critical, but when you are making candles to sell or give away, you should use an adhesive that seals the bottom of the wick tab so that it cannot suck fuel (liquid wax) from underneath, which defeats the self-extinguishing properties of a tab of any height. An adhesive that softens or lets go at high end of candle temps is a safety hazard. I use Permatex High-Temp silicon gasket maker (red), available from auto parts stores everywhere. It's rated for 700°F. One has to wick ahead of time at least a few hours (overnight is best), but I find this slight inconvenience is well-worth the added safety. The stuff is a bear to remove, so I don't use it for testing (I pretty much know to extinguish a candle at 1/2"...) - only for products for sale or gifting.

[lilcountrymama]

I just tryed the cd 10 in a 8 oz jj and I'm getting flickering everything else is ok but definatly have some flickering of the flame did you experience that

[Stella1952]

Did you trim to 1/4" before burning? What FO are you using?

[EricofAZ]

I have to agree. The first and second burn are fine. No need to have a FMP on the first burn, even though customers expect it. Do make sure the first burn has a good throw. Catching up during the subsequent burns is just right. What is really important is how the burn goes at the end. Usually, that gets hot.

I tend to touch the jar at various stages. About a half hour into any burn, the upper part of the jar is the hottest. After that, the rest of the glass acts as a heat sink and the temp on the glass surface reduces a bit. The only time it is a real issue is the last "bitter end" when the heat is at the bottom, the glass is holding in the heat, and the surface that the container is on may become sensitive to the heat.

If your first burn was wall to wall in 10 minutes with a torch flame, you could bet that the end would be disastrous.

I think you're off to a good start.

[sisters3]

Wow...what great information!! Thank you so much!!!

I could have kept the candle burning, I am going to burn it more and see what happens. Stella, I do use wick tabs and NEVER thought of how they could soak up wax. I left about 1/4" unmelted wax in the bottom of the jar, I guess I really should burn again to be sure what happens??

lilcountrymama, No I didn't have any flicker I did have that with the ECO 10s that I use

[moonshine]

Sounds like the Sisters are on a roll!! Do watch for the container becoming too hot toward the end, but so far, so good. How's the hot throw?

That size and the JJ above are both ones that often sit squarely in the middle between an 8 and a 10. Try CDNs and see if that makes a difference. Your container is bound to heat up more at the end because of its shape - it holds in the heat more... A round, straight sided container would be less of a PITA in this respect.

The CDN in the 8 ounce square mason jar with 464 and CS Macintosh Apple so far is doing great- This jar is a PITA but I LOVE it and it totally fits the country look I want...I keep looking at other jars but just cannot leave the square mason so I hope the CDN's are going to be the ticket! Thanks for the recommendation on this wick and where to find them without buying thousands at a time in a previous post-now I can keep on re-testing and spend more $$$....LOL!

[lilcountrymama]

I'm trying it with the Pomegrante cider and I always keep the wick trimmed to proper length I don't have flickering with the ecos but I do with the cd 10 now so odd we have reverse reactions weird

[Stella1952]

I guess I really should burn again to be sure what happens??

Your results should be pretty accurate except that the container may have gotten a little hotter between 1/2" and 1/4" than it would had you extinguished at 1/2". If you are satisfied, move on to the powerburn test. Trim the wick to 1/4" light it and let 'er rip. Burn for LONG periods of time - all the way if you can. Don't trim the wick in between. This is a torture test designed to see how the candle will perform if most burning instructions are ignored. If the candle makes it through okay without excessive sooting or heating up of the container, you've got a winner.

I always keep the wick trimmed to proper length. I don't have flickering with the ecos but I do with the cd 10

When you say "proper length," I hope you mean 1/4". You should be trimming it before each burn and not during the burn, just in case you did not know this. If you did not experience this with CDs when testing other FOs, then I'd be inclined to think the FO is causing the problem. Does it continually flicker or does it settle down? If you don't like the CDs and find the ECOs work better for you, then use them. Edited October 6, 2011 by Stella1952

[lilcountrymama]

Yes proper length is 1/4 and of course I cut it before every burn. I take all the proper steps in my testing. I have not used cd 10's in this jar before I have used them in the apothecary jars and I had flickering in them as well with the cds. Idk if it could be that there three years old as well but I couldn't see a wick going bad. The flickering is on and off every few mins and then returns to being steady. I do not place my jars by fans, vents, or drafts so that is completely ruled out. Another problem is I moved from a one floor ranch and when I burned my candles I could smell them in the living room, hallway, kitchen, and dinning room. I now live in a two floor house and when I burn my candles in the living room I can only smell them going into the dining room, up the stairs, and on the second floor. Exactly why I decided to try the cds again because I thought maybe the ecos weren't throwing properly but could it be the way the air moves in my home I'm really getting thrown off since I moved here.

Edited October 7, 2011 by lilcountrymama

[Stella1952]

Wick flickering is usually caused by impurities in the candle - either from the wax or the FO used. Dust can be a problem as well. Some folks have reported problems with EOs because their formulation is not always consistent. The same can hold true of FOs due to age or the particular batch or supplier... When wax is melted over a double boiler, moisture can get into the wax from steam which also can cause flickering.

My best suggestion is to take a look at all these variables and see which one is causing the difficulty. The first thing I would do is make a tester without any FO to see if the wick flickers in it... If you are melting your wax over a double boiler, try another method of melting the wax and see if that helps.

[lilcountrymama]

Thank you for that I really didn't have any idea or thought about it. I've always used the double boiler method and its becoming quite the pita. I have read about presto pots but have never really looked into to them or taken the time to find where to get one. Guess ill have to test a little more thoroughly from now on.to find out what the problem is. What are your thoughts about how my candles are throwing is that an air flow problem?

[Stella1952]

Well, it could be a number of things... the condensation problem was one I found in a quick forum search at the top of the second page, the OP solved the problem herself by realizing the water issue... She corrected that and the flickering stopped....

Regarding the HT - if the wax is adulterated in some way, and the wick is flickering, you sure aren't getting much efficiency or consistent heating from the flame, so if I were troubleshooting these problems, I would fix the flicker first. Once the flickering is fixed, if the HT is still off, look at wick type/size, FO quality, etc.

I don't know anything about candles in two story houses - I live in a little 1 story double shotgun house. It seems like a stretch to me to think that one candle in a jelly jar downstairs would scent up the entire house - and that would surely depend on the size of the house, wouldn't it? It's possible to be able to smell it, I guess, but it seems like it'd be kinda faint having to travel up the stairs, around corners, into different rooms, etc.

You might wanna start another thread to discuss scenting a two story house... I have no realtime experience with that situation, but if others who live in multiple story homes noticed a thread like that with a good subject title, they might chime in.