MissMori Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Does anyone use coconut oil at a very high percentage? I've read in several threads that a little coconut oil (1 to 3 tsp. ppw) helps with frosting. Has anyone tried a high percentage, say 25% or more or total wax weight? Would there be a potential problem with this mix being too flammable and potentially dangerous?Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) I have made them with 80% CO and 20% other ingredients. The candles I made & tested were very pleasing, although the wicing was slightly different (seems like I could have wicked up one size as there was a tiny bit of hangup at the end). The candle did not frost but I did not put it through the frosting hell-test (FO & dye known to promote heavy frosting). I have not noticed that CO is any better than USA at combating frosting at the "normal" dosages.The best thing to do is conduct your own experiments and keep GOOD notes. Have fun! Edited February 24, 2011 by Stella1952 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissMori Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 Hi Stella,The reason I'm asking is because I've been testing "coconut" wax, which is a blend of soy, bee and coconut. I'm thinking, "why not blend my own soy/coconut wax?" When you say you've used 80% coconut oil and 20% other ingredients, do you mean 80% of your finished candle was coconut oil? The other 20% was other waxes, fragrance, dye, additives? If yes, did you fear burning this candle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 see below... :embarasse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 (edited) When you say you've used 80% coconut oil and 20% other ingredients, do you mean 80% of your finished candle was coconut oil? The other 20% was other waxes, fragrance, dye, additives?:embarasse Oops - sorry! I hadda brain fart - scratch that 80%. I just hunted up the test card & notes. It was equal parts of 76° CO, C3 and another ingredient, with 1 oz. PP FO. I didn't add any dye. I was so pleased with the burn, the next time I had planned to up the CO to 80% (using 76° and 92° in two separate batches) and reduce the amount of C3. The throw was a tiny bit disappointing, but I noted that I needed to wick up one size because of a little bit of hangup. It threw well, but not as well as the C3 I use. I don't think I'll have any trouble adjusting for that. I used a CDN wick, BTW. So far, the remnants at the bottom of the candle are not frosting. I made it last October or November - forgot to date the card :rolleyes2.If yes, did you fear burning this candle?Why would I? It isn't gonna blow up or anything! Remember: people burn 100% oil candles, so worrying about the high oil content being more or less flammable is needless. Besides - we are experimenting, not making candles for sale! The worst thing that could happen is that the formula would suck. My main concern was the low MP of the CO I used (76°F) because of the climate where I live (think Hades) so I paid attention to using other ingredients to try to raise the MP a little. If one used the 92°F coconut oil, the results might be even better. I was toying with the same basic idea as you had, but haven't gotten back to test further. I am waiting until summer rolls around. That's the best time for me to test low MP waxes to see if they'll hold up. I was also concerned about the hardness of the wax, but it was only a tiny bit harder than C3.Next time, my plan is to get extreme with the CO amount (gonna try 80% and 90%) and diminish the other ingredients equally (except the FO amount). It would not surprise me if that amount is too much. If it is, I'll bump up the other ingredients 5% at a time until I am happy with the results.There is a product for which I am searching for this endeavor but have not been able to find - coconut shortening. It is sold overseas, but I haven't been able to locate it in the US... If anyone knows where I could get my hands on some, I'd sure appreciate a lead...Have fun with it, MM! Use common sense and good testing procedures and you'll do fine. Edited February 25, 2011 by Stella1952 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillowBoo Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 2 Tbsp per pound improves the scent throw in my candles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soy327 Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Stella, MM I love experiments. MM keep us posted please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissMori Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 Here's what got me motivated... I'm liking the coconut wax I've been testing, don't like the price.Coconut wax is essentially soy wax, coconut wax and beeswax. So, why not try to mix my own. What's the difference between a wax and an oil? I've read that waxes are essentially oils that are hard/harder at room temperature. So, perhaps a mix of soy wax, coconut oil and maybe steric acid, beeswax or a number of other additives will work.Thus far 5% of total wax weight is not working. Too much hang up, not enough throw. I'm going to give it another go this weekend (if the natives behave.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorelei Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Please keep us posted I'm interested in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissMori Posted March 9, 2011 Author Share Posted March 9, 2011 I finally got a chance to make another candle... did I mention I have 2 boys (3 and 5?)I used 75% c3 and 25% 76 degree coconut oil... cut to the chase... didn't work. I also used uv absorb, USA, 1 orchid dye chip... didn't work. After cooling, it was spongy and fo was weeping out. I stirred, stirred, stirred to get everything mixed thoroughly, poured at 110 degrees. Thinking either of adding some bees wax or steric. Still thinking... will update.Any suggestions? Thinking, hmmm.... is there such a thing as an emulsifier that makes 2 oils/fats mix together better and not have one come out of solution as the mix cools. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonsie Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I used 10% USA, 10% CO, and 80% 464 with standard amount of UV, heavy liquid dye, and 6% FO. Frosted like crazy and had wet spots, but burned well with my wooden wick and didn't have any pitting after burn. No residual wax clinging to the side of the jar as it burned. It would make for a nice blend in a tin, but for a glass container... not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillowBoo Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 you have to throw some pariffin in there for the best mix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bella Rose Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Sorry Willow but I do not agree.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillowBoo Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 you want to try one of my candles? Glad to send you one! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissMori Posted March 9, 2011 Author Share Posted March 9, 2011 This may be a bit OT, but what exactly is in USA? I use it, but have never gotten a good answer as to what is actually in it. If anyone knows, I'd sure appreciate an answer.Also... must have used up all my beeswax, because it wasn't in it's place when I went to go look for it. So I decided to get some at Michael's.. I know, don't tell me.. but $17.99 per pound? Are you #&*ing kidding me? I'm ordering today online. My next experiment will have to wait a bit... but I'm not giving up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bella Rose Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 you want to try one of my candles? Glad to send you one!No, thank you anyway - I do believe, and I speak from experience, that it is possible to create a perfect SOY candle -appearance and throw....without the use of paraffin as an additive.Not everyone likes the idea of having paraffin in their Soy candles - I for one, do not. Personal preference here I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleasureridgecandles Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I agree with you Bella. Parrafin, I'm not touching it. Don't like it, don't want it and people in this area want soy not a soy blend. But yes it is a personal preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soy327 Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Willowboo, I'd love to try one of your candles. Maybe I could figure out why mine are cracking up to 50/50 now and I took your advice about pouring cooler.Not trying to hijack this thread, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soy327 Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 (edited) MissMori, here is a link I never tried this but it says it's for soyhttp://www.thecandlemakersstore.com/product/ADUSOYA/Universal-Soy-Wax-Additive.htmlI also found this:http://candlemarketingsweeti.com/blog/2010/02/candle-additives-universal-soy-additive/I'm at work and didn't have time to read it but I will later. Edited March 9, 2011 by soy327 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorelei Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Would love to hear from those of you that have tried the USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillowBoo Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 soy327 - pm me with address. Another thing...did you try different FO's or did you just use one FO with all the problems? Sometimes a particular FO can do strange things. Cabernet drives me nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soy327 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I'll PM you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 (edited) This may be a bit OT, but what exactly is in USA? I use it, but have never gotten a good answer as to what is actually in it. If anyone knows, I'd sure appreciate an answer.Read here: http://www.craftserver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67406 Sorry Willow but I do not agree.... Neither do I, Bella Rose. With a little effort and craftsmanship, one can create a soy candle that minimizes the natural polymorphic properties of soy wax without the use of paraffin. That's the goal I set for my candles and it's the one I achieve most of the time. I'm not sure exactly what someone else might consider the "perfect" soy candle, but I'm proud of the ones I make and think they look and function very well. As for adding paraffin:Some folks just don't want to use paraffin in their candles. I inferred that the OP had an interest in creating a veggie wax candle composed mainly of soy and coconut oils (waxes)... Discussing the use of other oils (coconut oil) and vegetable-derived additives (USA) was the thrust of this topic. Adding paraffin certainly solves a couple of common soy wax complaints, but then, IMHO, it's no longer a soy or veggie wax candle - it is a parasoy blend. Would love to hear from those of you that have tried the USA Lorilei, by using the Google site search tool or the search tool for this forum (instructions here, post #2, you can find MANY comments from those who use USA.Having said that, I use USA in all my container soy candles - 1 tablespoonful per pound of wax. I have tested it in NatureWax C3 against coconut oil (in varying doses) and like how it works better or I wouldn't use it 'cause coconut oil is far easier to find and purchase. HTH Edited March 10, 2011 by Stella1952 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck_35550 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 (edited) If this is just some fun lab stuff I guess that's ok but for me it's the bottom line. My wax plus shipping is running about 9 cents an ounce and I can't afford to run that cost up any higher. Used to be that soy wax was really cheap and you could make a soy candle for a fraction of the cost than that of paraffin. Today, all the waxes are expensive and almost all of them are a blend of either vegetable or paraffins. I use a blended wax of 70/30 (soy/paraffin) and I'm proud of it. No customer has ever asked for an all soy candle. I guess Alabamians are just ignorant but all they ever want is a candle that smells good and burns decently in an attractive container. Good luck on obtaining a blend of expensive waxes and hitting a gold mine. No matter which way you go, there's stuff in your wax that you don't know and never will know what it might be. IMHOSteve Edited March 10, 2011 by chuck_35550 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stella1952 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 (edited) I use a blended wax of 70/30 (soy/paraffin) and I'm proud of it. No customer has ever asked for an all soy candle.And you should be, Chuck. I applaud your success and satisfaction with what you are doing. But others have customers who DO want an all soy or veggie wax (as some reported), which is why the OP started this thread: to discuss using coconut oil to make a coco-soy candle. In her words:The reason I'm asking is because I've been testing "coconut" wax, which is a blend of soy, bee and coconut. I'm thinking, "why not blend my own soy/coconut wax?" This discussion is not about soy vs. paraffin; it's purely about the interest of some chandlers to formulate wax blends that use no paraffin. The thread got off-track with this comment:you have to throw some pariffin in there for the best mix...which had nothing to do with the topic under discussion, which was making ones own coconut wax blendis there such a thing as an emulsifier that makes 2 oils/fats mix together better and not have one come out of solution as the mix cools.MissMori, sorry I missed this earlier in the thread. Yes. Soy lecithin is an emulsifier and is used in many soy blends, such as NatureWax C3 (dunno about others). Comes in liquid and powder form. Problem is that it tends to burn easily at high temps, so one has to be careful not to overdo it. It's a balancing act. On another note, I have located a company in the US who supposedly carries coconut shortening (which is hydrogenated with nitrogen). Am trying to run down a supplier. Let us hear about how your experiments are going when you have time. Edited March 10, 2011 by Stella1952 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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