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CandleScience will no longer carry Palm waxes


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While I respect Candlescience's stance and their sincerity, I think this is "greenwashing" at its finest. The oil used to make palm waxes is a minute fraction of what is produced for sale to global markets for a vast array of products from soap to napalm! Deforestation and destruction of habitat the world over has always occurred because of economic growth of large-scale vegetative products! Soy is no different. Nor is corn. Nor is coconut oil. Nor is petroleum-based oil & wax... Is Candlescience going to stop selling soy wax and paraffin, too, because of the environmental impact of THOSE products? In fact, the CARBON footprint of candlemaking, period, is quite large, while one is measuring, especially when compared to solar, LED and CFE lighting alternatives... Are they going to stop selling candle stuff because of that? Should we all stop making our hydrocarbon-based products? Puh-LEEZE! :rolleyes2

Worldwide overpopulation of humans is the problem. There are too many of us and we all need to make some kind of living so we can eat. We destroy farmland and forests here to build suburbs. Is it surprising that in Indonesia, just as in the US, the almighty dollar dictates land use? Is it surprising that Indonesians want to be able to feed and uplift their people with whatever economics products they can sell on the global market? Palm oil, sustainable or not, funds many important programs in Malaysia & Indonesia. Our government is funding economic development in Columbia by resettling disarmed paramilitary people on palm oil plantations. Even the EU is not going to affect Malaysian palm oil exports.

Does it occur to anyone that this relatively sudden microscopic focus on the evils of palm oil cultivation may be a diversionary tactic to ensure that other types of oil which are less healthful and equally as damaging to the environment (soy, rapeseed & cottonseed come quickly to mind) can prevent palm oil from cutting into their stranglehold on the global market?

A 2009 study by scientists at Malaysian Science University concluded that palm oil, compared to other vegetable oils, is a healthy source of edible oil and at the same time, available in quantities that can satisfy global demand for biodiesel. Oil palm planting and palm oil consumption circumvents the food vs. fuel debate because it has the capacity to fulfill both demands simultaneously.[37] By 2050, a British scientist estimates global demand for edible oils will probably be around 240 million tonnes, nearly twice 2008 consumption. Most of the additional oil may be palm oil, which has the lowest production cost of the major oils, but soybean oil production will probably also increase.
(from a relatively well-documented and balanced article at Wikipedia).

I wonder if folks even know how "sustainability" is defined...

http://advancedbiofuelsusa.info/truly-sustainable-renewable-future

People can boycott palm products made from oil that cannot be certified as "sustainable" (kinda like boycotting soybean oil that is GMO - 93% of American-grown soybean crops and 77% worldwide). They can boycott the certified oil by the RSPO, claiming corruption. They can do so fully believng that they are striking a blow against the evil empire, but I don't believe that. I think environmentalists are being used on this issue (and many others) by those with a far less honorable and altruistic agenda - money & power. I am unconvinced that the real impetus behind this concern is based solely on environmental concerns - I'd be willing to bet it has a LOT more to do with economic and political interests than genuine concern about orangutans and rain forests. Just MHO...

Here're a few interesting links with less popular opinions on the evils of palm oil...

http://www.americanpalmoil.com/environmental.html

Speaking of orangs...

http://www.americanpalmoil.com/pdf/enviromental/Press%20Statement%20-%20Orang%20Utan-BBC.pdf

http://www.americanpalmoil.com/publications/CSPI_misleading_consumer.pdf

Comments about the RSPO Certification process...

http://www.americanpalmoil.com/pdf/enviromental/RSPOMerelyaCertificationProcess.pdf

Regarding efforts toward "sustainability"... an article reprinted from "The Global Oils & Fats Business Magazine", Vol. 3, Issue 2, 2006

http://www.americanpalmoil.com/pdf/enviromental/Walk%20the%20Talk%20for%20Sustainability.pdf

I'm sorry Candlescience won't be selling palm wax any more, but I'm gonna keep on making palm wax candles and using palm oil products. Others can all jump onto the "green" bandwagon if they wish. I smell organic bulldoody... which is identical in its fragrance to normal corporate greedhead bulldoody... Sometimes the "green" platform is the exact same color as money... Sometimes the same green color is indicative of nausea... Using kitties and bears and orangs to tweak the hearts of folks does NOT constitute nor substitute for FACTS.

I hope palm wax candlemakers will read ALL SIDES of this complex issue before simply taking the word of the Cause du Jour folks...

Edited by Stella1952
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I am not going to try to second guess why a supplier would cease carrying a product that is in demand. I can only assume that economic factors may be a contributing factor, as a business must make money to be successful. I have a feeling that the recent bad batch of GG palm wax may have something to do with it (notice the GG is listed as out of stock). But whatever the reason, it is just another issue we will have to deal with. I have not been getting my wax there since the batching issues (Aztec is the best deal I have found so far), so it will not affect me. I still plan to make Palm candles. I think anything we do has some effect on the environment, we just have to try and limit it as we can. This has never been, and never will be, a perfect world.

Cheers,

Steve

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Just curious- what ulterior agenda do you believe candlescience would have for ceasing to carry a lucrative product?
I respect Candlescience's stance and their sincerity

I am not saying that concerns about palm oil production are complete BS, but I think the "concerns" are fueled by protectionist interests of big soy, canola, et al. If you get the Greenies all riled up, throw in some pics of homeless baby orangs, etc., you have a Movement. A few "true" points on either side are NOT the complete picture. I think there is plenty of evidence that the palm oil market is under attack and the corporate interests who seek to limit palm's continued growth in the oil market are not above manipulating, deceiving and exaggerating to cause a global outcry against palm oil interests. Since environmentalism is so hip these days (I liked it better before it became cool), it's easy to get those who simply follow to jump on the bandwagon without considering what the real agenda might be... Why not read up on the subject from all sides of the issue and decide what YOU think? ;)

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Palm oil in general is not the only reason for deforestation in Indonesia. The demand for tropical timber and also the mining industry not to mention natural disasters which Indonesia has had too many recently all contribute to the deforestation. The candle industry uses such a small amount of palm compared to food and soap industry. Indonesia is full of corruption. They call it KKN Korupsi Kolusi dan Nepotisme (Corruption Collusion and Nepotism) and that will take forever to change. No amount of western jumping up and down or 1 candle supplier boycoting is going to change that in a hurry. JMO. Sorry if it offends

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Each to their own......Candlescience is free to do as it wishes and voice their reasons.

I personally find a couple of their comments very difficult to believe, which makes me personally think they are trying to gain popularity for their 'environmental' stance. I am sure there are many that will read it and believe it is gospel, as is the case with most controversial issues. Each to their own.

Sourcing palm can be a hassle for suppliers - getting a good quality wax that is supplied in the required quantities is not always easy. Maybe their recent issues with GG have influenced their decision to move out of the market.

The cynic in me could consider linking the two - using the environmental angle to gain some credit for deciding to no longer stock a product that was difficult to supply might be a better PR exercise than just deciding not to stock it anymore.

We will never know one way or the other......But if they have done this because they truly believe in the cause then good on them for putting their own financial gain 2nd to their beliefs and ethics. Whilst we may have similar or differing opinions and views on the subject, you cannot discount their strength if they have indeed done this for their beliefs in the cause.

Bart70

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I just started testing wicked palm candles and have been liking csn wicks. I wonder if they will discontinue those as well. I hope not as that will make most of my testing of that I have done null and void now:sad2:. Oh well, life of candle making

While I don't like the fact of disforestation, there are ways to help. For every tree they cut down for whatever reason... (lumber, oil, wax) plant a new tree. Yes it takes a long time for a tree to grow to the point where it can be used again for whatever reason (again, lumber, oil, wax) it is better than leaving the ground plain. A newly planted tree still provides shade on hot sunny days (maybe not for a large animal or a person, but even the smallest bug needs shade) and it take CO2 and turns it to Oxegan. But then again, that is only my opinion:)

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I just started testing wicked palm candles and have been liking csn wicks. I wonder if they will discontinue those as well. I hope not as that will make most of my testing of that I have done null and void now:sad2:. Oh well, life of candle making

I just sent them an email regarding the CSNs. If I hear back from them I will let you know the answer.

I just got done spending a ton of money doing all this testing and now this. Are you frickin' kidding me?! :mad:

Hopefully none of the other suppliers jump on the bandwagon.

Edited by pcbrook
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I think this is too coincidental that they've made this decision. I believe it is related to a financial decision to cut their losses and no longer carry a product the is potentially unreliable for it quality (GG) and incurred a significant loss due to customer dissatisfaction.

Bottom line = $$$

If they got this information in June and took a little time for research, why wasn't it announced in August or September? If the GG issues was the last straw...then say that. I could respect a decision that was fueled by a loss in labor, shipping, and product reimbursement costs as the deciding factor. I find it odd that they would suddenly decide to discontinue the product due to one article. The dark side of the palm industry has been in the media for a while now. Is the sustainable palm industry complete BS? Perhaps...but cite environmental concerns as one factor...don't blame it solely on that. It would be more believable to say the GG distributor can't guarantee quality product and this cost us a lot of money, so we're discontinuing it. Period.

Edited by evergreen
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I just sent them an email regarding the CSNs. If I hear back from them I will let you know the answer.

I just got an answer to my question about the CSN wicks.

**We have no plans to stop carrying the CSN wicks now. They work well in some of the soy waxes, too.**

So at least that is a good thing.

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I'm not planning on changing my wax either as I have spent a great deal of time and money working with GG. So I guess I will just have to find another supplier.

There are environmental issues connected with the production of soy and parrafin too so why discontinue all palm waxes? I'm not entirely convinced that what CS is saying on their website is their entire story. But they can run their biz anyway they want so I will just have to get my GG elsewhere.:sad2:

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Aztec's glass Glow page...

http://www.candlemaking.com/store/Glassglow-Container-Palm-Wax---Case-R2322-P2326C42.aspx

Others...

Peak Candle Supplies, sponsor of this site.

http://www.peakcandle.com/category/Waxes/Palm-Wax.aspx

C. J. Robinson, makers of RobNat... call for distributors

http://www.cjrobinson.com/pages/PLCndlsSoywax.html

Morris Wax - call for availability for IGI R2322A (GlassGlow)

http://www.morriswax.com/Products.html

The Candlemaker's Store

http://www.thecandlemakersstore.com/category/waxesgels.palm_wax/

Midwest Candle Supply

http://www.creativeilluminations.com/category_108.php

Edited by Stella1952
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LOL

Isnt that what we are looking at. Perhaps we could get 1/2 container of feather and 1/2 glass glow. At least we could also sell the excess to people here on the East Coast as bloody NCS does not seem able to keep anything in stock!

You want to go halves in a container of 30,000 jars with me also :)

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Right in the middle of our busy season!! UGH!! I have already committed to wholesale clients for palm candles! This is not good.

OK - time to look at Stella's list (THANK YOU!!)

BTW - I did notice that Natures Garden carries container Palm wax and a pillar palm wax (www.naturesgardencandles.com) I have not yet asked if these are Glass Glow/Feather palm...but just thought I would add that to the list for anyone who uses other supplies from NG.

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Worldwide overpopulation of humans is the problem. There are too many of us and we all need to make some kind of living so we can eat. We destroy farmland and forests here to build suburbs.

I agree in a lot of what you said about pulling products from the market. Time & again there is a push to go green for what appear to be great reasons, only later you find out the unintended consequences (ie banning ddt & skyrocketing increase in deaths due to malaria worldwide, esp. Africa. and now the worldwide epidemic of bed bugs.)

Population isn't rising in every country. See Japan and many countries in Europe. I read this recently... http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/2010/03/the-overpopulation-myth/ Titled, "The Overpopulation myth" I don't know the political leanings of Prospect Magazine, I just thought it was an interesting article.

Quoted from the article,

The big story here is that rich or poor, socialist or capitalist, Muslim or Catholic, secular or devout, with or without tough government birth control policies in place, most countries tell the same tale of a reproductive revolution.

That doesn’t mean population growth has ceased. The world’s population is still rising by 70m a year. This is because there is a time lag: the huge numbers of young women born during the earlier baby boom may only have had two children each. That is still a lot of children. But within a generation, the world’s population will almost certainly be stable, and is very likely to be falling by mid-century. In the US they are calling my new book “The Coming Population Crash.”

The author of the article blames the world's problems on over consumption, not over population.

On your point regarding deforestation: although records were not kept prior to 1927 or so, it is estimated that there are the same amount or more acres of forests now than in 1920. This is due to better farming techniques and the development of better fertilizers and pesticides. This is one of the little factoids I remember from wood workings classes I took a while back. Along with dendrochronology. One of my favorite words.

Edited by MissMori
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