Molded Taper Problems, Silicone Mold

[radellaf]

Trying to use a new 1/2" taper mold made out of silicone from scorpinn on eBay. I'm getting nice shapes of course, but the finish, OMG...

The top one is IGI 1274 with 9% (5tbl) stearic 190 pour. The next one down (orange) I added 0.5% 175mp microcrystalline and 210 pour. I'm not 100% sure about the next one, but I think I just added 5% more stearic to the mix and down to 200.

One all the way on the bottom is the last, and best result, from experiments with Vybar 103 poured at 190. Straight wax was awful and so was 0.5% (1tsp) vybar. So I tried 1.5% and no better. This one adds 5% stearic to the 1.5% vybar. There are still pits all over the surface, but at least there aren't a wide variety of rough textures and spots where the wax looks like it tore off.

Any ideas? Seems like I'm doing something grossly wrong. 1274 with 10% stearic works delightfully dipped or in metal molds. I don't get a perfect finish in my polyurethane 7/8" mold, but it's nothing like this.

I have gloss poly, 195 micro, beeswax, and FT wax to try. Or some IGI pillar blend, but I thought that was basically just 1274-ish with some vybar and maybe micro.

[ChrisR]

I mostly use beeswax for my tapers, add mold release to the wax and spray my molds good with a silicone mold release and have never had a problem like you're having. I occasionally use pillar wax with no problems unless the molds need cleaning, then I may get some pit marks. Do you spray your molds with a silicone mold release?

[radellaf]

Well, I'm not having any trouble getting them out of the mold, or any bits left stuck on the walls. I do have a can of Price Driscoll E20-3 silicone mold release, though. I'll try it, what's to lose...

[simplybeelightful]

I use 100% beeswax for my tapers, rarely spray the molds with silicone and RARELY have any problems.

[radellaf]

I'll tried the silicone spray with the 1.5% vybar 5% stearic and got this result, which is so bad that it's almost comic.

The smoothness of finish is actually OK on the stearic-only candles, but I'd like a plain, opaque look, or at least translucent without all the bubbles and mottling (there's no FO!). 0.5% vybar (no stearic) wasn't opaque enough.

Maybe 15-20% stearic? Or, that amount of beeswax instead should make them pretty opaque.

The pic:

[ChrisR]

Holy smokes that's awful! I have no clue why you are getting that. I have never had that problem with my silicone molds. You've got me stumped. Try an all beeswax taper just to see what happens, maybe it's your molds........dunno!

[simplybeelightful]

I think your problem is from the silicone spray. I think what is happening is that you are getting bubbles on the sides of the mold from the silicone spray.

Try not spraying and see what happens. Or, in the alternative, don't use so much spray or let the mold sit for a while after spraying to let the bubbles pop.

Like I said before, I only occasionally spray my molds. To release your candle, give the mold just a little twist before trying to remove the candle.

[radellaf]

The silicone spray, at least with that wax formula, did seem to hose things up. None of my other pours used any spray, and gently twisting the mold has always been enough to loosen the candles.

I tried it with a 20% beeswax (balance 1274) and a ridiculously high pour temp of 235F. Without the black dye, I could see with a flashlight that there were thousands of tiny bubbles. Probably from air trapped during pouring? At least starting at 235, the wax stayed liquid for a minute and I tapped the mold enough to loosen a lot of the bubbles. Result photo at the bottom.

I'll next try to do a single candle, pouring at 190F down the side of the mold (like pouring beer). I can't see how I'd do that to all four chambers, but I can at least see if it helps.

Any of you done these smaller 1/2" tapers?

I have had similar problems with my urethane 7/8"x6" mold, but nothing like this, and wonder if the diameter is making it harder. I also have a metal 7/8"x12" taper mold, and that gives me no more surface problems than my normal aluminum pillar candle molds.

BTW, this is what the mold looks like:

and here's the Ebay Listing. BTW, to be clear, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with this mold. The inside of the chambers are smooth. I'm just having a hard time with bubbles in the wax. The 6" urethane mold from elsewhere, though, I think does have an interior finish problem. Main clue? The surface of different candles show a similar pattern. Here, I see nothing in common between them. It's always a "unique and special pattern of bubbles, characteristic of the rustic handmade tradition in which these fine candles are crafted." <cough>

Edited May 27, 2010 by radellaf

[ChrisR]

My molds are from Mann Lake Ltd and I've never had a bad finish with my beeswax, bayberry/beeswax or pillar wax. My beeswax I pour about 140-150, have you tried a cooler pour?

[radellaf]

Results of 190F pours of, pure beeswax, scented 1274 with 2% stearic (leftover from a pillar), and then adding about 1% 195mp micro to that in order to kill the mottling.

Only a few pits/bubbles on the paraffin, but lots of what I presume are jump lines. They're diagonal since the mold was tilted when I poured. There's a small strip of perfect finish on the "side" where the wax poured down. I guess that washed off the bubbles in that spot. The jump lines on my initial 9% stearic candles are why I kept trying hotter pour temps.

The beeswax looks fine. No pits. Not mirror smooth but I wasn't expecting that. I didn't pour the beeswax carefully, either.

[simplybeelightful]

The beeswax looks fine. No pits. Not mirror smooth but I wasn't expecting that. I didn't pour the beeswax carefully, either.

Ah, wonderful beeswax, is there any question why I love working with it? I too have never had any problem pouring my beeswax tapers. My wax melter is set about 180 and I don't even check my pouring temp., just pour, unmold, and have nice perfect candles.

[radellaf]

I've been doing further experiments, including trying to replicate the nice wood-like look of the 2% FO 2% stearic 190F pour candles, but I couldn't get the new ones to look as nice. The "jump lines" are OK, bubbles less so, but the real killer is areas where a thin flake of wax comes off the candle.

50% beeswax (dyed purple) worked pretty well, but had a small one of those flakes at the top. Could it be the dye? (16 drops pp is kinda high). Pure beeswax is too tacky for my taste, but 75% might be good. Or, I've had lousy luck with straight palm wax tapers, but perhaps it would blend 50% with beeswax and burn well.

Can you use stearic with beeswax?

For that matter, what about stearic _and_ vybar? I'm thinking 9% stearic (5tbs) to 0.5% vybar (1/2 tsp, roughly).

Best result so far was with 1/2% 190F micro and 5% stearic, poured at 220F, and tapping the mold vigorously. Probably the additives aren't critical, just having the wax stay liquid long enough to let the bubbles loose.

I did try a different paraffin, IGI's pillar blend, but results were essentially the same.

Next try? Getting out the Wahl plug-in massager and using that to vibrate the mold. Kinda ridiculous, but it might do it.

I wonder what the chinese factory that makes all the little chime/spell candles uses... extrusion is my guess.

[radellaf]

Just heard back from the mold

maker and:

"

Try warming the mold. Silcone is a great insulator and warming the

mold can give the bubbles time to dissapate. We were casting some "clear"

wax and had bubble problems and it helped a great deal. The downside is

that it takes longer for the wax to set up."

Not exactly sure how you warm "a great insulator" conveniently. Usually with aluminum I use a blowtorch. With glass, hot water. Could try a hair dryer?

Anyway, I'll try it.

Last run was 5% stearin 2%FO, heated to 240 and poured straight down (not along the side). That produced an excellent result with very few bubbles. Naturally, took 3 or so top offs vs 1 or 2 to compensate for the increased shrinkage.

[candlesprite7]

I think these looks kinda neat, a bit like lava rock or something...LOL

The pic: