Starburst Palm Testing

[soy327]

Top, I have been following your testing threads and doing some candles of my own. My problem is I have made 3 candles in the last week pouring at different temps, I think that my bag of starburst is feather maybe mismarked. I have poured and wick tested 3 candles, and made these in the last week none out of all 6 look like starburst. Heated the wax to 205-210 poured at 190 - 205. What do you think from the crystalization:confused:

Edited May 3, 2010 by soy327

[topofmurrayhill]

It sure doesn't look like starburst. But it doesn't really look like feather either. I haven't poured my glass glow yet, but that's what the pattern reminds me of based on the pictures I've seen.

[soy327]

It is definately not glass glow

[topofmurrayhill]

We seem to have run out of possiblities then. If it's feather, it sure doesn't look like my feather pillars. It looks the furthest thing from starburst. You can actually recognize starburst from looking at the wax because the beads are more yellowish than the others. To me it kind of resembles the glass glow example on the CandleScience website. Are you sure glass glow wouldn't look like that if you poured it into metal molds?

Edited May 3, 2010 by topofmurrayhill

[topofmurrayhill]

End of burn 10 for CDN 18. This burn was 3 hours long instead of 4.

[debratant]

Interesting picture of the air pocket. Thanks for showing that.

Soy...I saw your pics last night and the first thought that came to mind

was it looks like glass glow. Where did you get your wax?

[Debbie73]

My starburst and feather palm are both tiny little beads and the glass glow is flakey and dusty, when it is poured. I get all of mine from Candle Science, but assume they are like this no matter where they come from.

Looking at the pictures, it is hard to tell. I would think if it were glass glow you would have had a hard time getting it out of the mold, since glass glow is a container wax. Where did you buy it from? Maybe get in touch with the supplier and tell them what the problem is, possibly send a picture.

[topofmurrayhill]

I have just a few loose ends to tie up before I can post my writeups on the CandleScience & IGI pillar palms. Mainly I need to get some good tests using starburst with HTP and flat braid wicks. I'd hopefully like to see those work and get some approximate sizes.

So here are some testers for HTP 126 and 1212. Those are the sizes that worked in feather, but it's very obvious that starburst is a different story. The 1212 almost blew out the side on the very first burn. Not sure if I've ever gotten that before. The 126 seem to be burning a lot faster than it did in feather also.

I'll keep the 126 going even though I have some doubts about it. The 1212 is going to get remelted and turned into an HTP 105 tester. We'll continue this tomorrow.

Photos are 1 hour and 4 hours. They did get a lot smaller at the end but started off with pretty tall flames.

Edited May 4, 2010 by topofmurrayhill

[topofmurrayhill]

So here are some flat braid testers--the other loose end I need to tie up. My previous 36 ply tester was the one made with 10% feather palm as an additive. That one burned fast and blew out big-time even though 36 ply worked in feather palm. An interesting thing I found along the way is that there were no voids in that candle when I split it open.

Both stearic acid and feather palm seem to be good additives for starburst, but I think 10% feather is more than was needed. These new flat braid testers have only 4% feather by wax weight. They look almost like straight starburst, but they got a very complete surface crystallization (which helps to keep them from sweating) and they were very easy to unmold because they shrank away from the sides.

The new testers are 30 ply and 36 ply. I wasn’t expecting a big change from the last 36 ply tester, but I thought I might trim the wick before each burn. I wouldn’t normally do that, but I’m trying it out of curiosity because there are so few size options in this range of flat braid. The difference between 30 ply and 36 ply is so big that it’s very possible for one to be much too small and the other much too large. In fact, check out the difference at the end of burn 1. The photos are at 1 hour and 4 hours.

[topofmurrayhill]

Wrapping up the CDN 18 test here. This is the end of burn 11 and the end of burn 12. I could easily get a few more burns out of it, but I didn't cut the wick short on this one and I don't wan't it to leak out the bottom. I think we learned enough from it.

[topofmurrayhill]

Here's the end of burn 2 for the flat braid testers. I said I would trim the 36 ply but didn't. Guess I just don't like that approach. It may still be burning too hot like it did the first time and I think my suspicion about these sizes being too small and too large might be right. Going forward, the way I'd prefer to explore how flat braid might be useful with starburst would be to try longer burn sessions for the 30 ply and shorter ones for the 36 ply. This burn, however, was 4 hours for both of them.

[topofmurrayhill]

And here's burn 3 for 36 and 30 ply. Just another 4-hour burn. The 36 ply is working better than the previous time I tried it, so I let it go for the full time.

[topofmurrayhill]

This is the end of the first 4-hour burn for the new HTP 105 tester that replaces the way-big HTP 1212 tester. One burn to catch up with HTP 126, and from here on I'll test the 105 and 126 side by side.

It's looking kinda small, like it did in feather palm. It seems that HTP 126 may be the sole best option for both waxes. From there you have a big step down to 105 or a big step up to 1212.

[topofmurrayhill]

Burn 4 for the flat braid testers. I burned the 36 ply for only 3 hours and 30 ply for the full 4.

[topofmurrayhill]

End of burn 2 for HTP 105 and HTP 126.

[topofmurrayhill]

During burn 5 of the flat braid testers, I was only able to burn the 36 ply for 2 hours before I got worried about a blowout. The 30 ply burned the full 4 hours and is looking a little weak. My interpretation so far is still too big and too small.

[topofmurrayhill]

End of burn 3 for the HTP testers.

Another big size gap here between HTP 105 and 126. When it comes to flat braid and HTP, it seems the wicking you need for a 3 inch pillar may not fall in a convenient place in the size range. There aren't a lot of options for getting the wicking just right.

Not sure if this is another possible case of too small and too big. The 105 is looking a little weak and the 126 melted out pretty wide in 4 hours.

[topofmurrayhill]

Burn 6 for flat braid. I only burned the 36 ply for 3 hours. The 30 ply burned for 4 hours.

I'm starting to have some faith the 30 ply will manage to get the job done, but I do want to burn them both down successfully along with both the HTP testers. Besides finding workable sizes for these two wick types, I'm using these as additional tests to see how much effect air pockets have on the burn. That's another thing I need in order to finish my writeup for starburst palm.

[lrbd]

I am very anxious to read your write up . I have been trying to follow but it will be good to see what you conclude . Thanks for all the time you have spent on this

Laura

[topofmurrayhill]

Burn 4 for the HTP testers.

I went off to do other stuff and the HTP 126 was already blown out when I checked in on the candles at 2 3/4 hours. The HTP 105 burned for the whole 4 hours.

Edited May 7, 2010 by topofmurrayhill

[topofmurrayhill]

30 ply and 36 ply, end of burn 7.

Once the flames start to flicker around and the tops open up, I always find these palm pillars to be a lot less fussy. After all the drama with the 36 ply, this time I was able to burn them both for 4 hours with no worries. The 36 is still too big though, unless you want to design for shorter burns and maybe more complete consumption.

[soy327]

It is definately not glass glow

:laugh2::laugh2:The joke is on me it is GG sorry Top, You were right. It was a mistake at the supplier.

Now I'm curious in all these threads with palm pillars, have you tried the RRD's I read on (I think) Candlewic they have that NST2 treatment am I right?

[topofmurrayhill]

Now I'm curious in all these threads with palm pillars, have you tried the RRD's I read on (I think) Candlewic they have that NST2 treatment am I right?

RRD is the only type of wick that's routinely sold with the NST2 treatment in the USA, but the introduction of CSN makes that mostly irrelevant because CSN offers the best overall compatibility and burn qualities in palm candles. It has an appropriate chemical treatment, a more useful selection of sizes, and it's clean-burning and self-trimming in all the waxes.

I've tried RRD NST2 as well as NST2-treated LX that I special-ordered from Wedo, but they couldn't touch CSN. RRD needs manual trimming and it tends to mushroom in starburst and feather. It doesn't mushroom much in tortoise shell, the most difficult of the palms to burn, but it tends to have tall flames and wide melt pools, which is the last thing you need with tortoise shell pillars.

I did find that RRD could burn a little better than CSN in tortoise shell with a difficult fragrance oil, but you are a lot better off just using a more compatible fragrance oil.

[topofmurrayhill]

Burn 8 for the flat braid testers and burn 5 for HTP 105.

I thought the 36 ply was gonna be okay for the whole test session, but I walked away for a while and it was blown out by the time I came back to take pictures. Just too dang big. The 30 ply is managing, but I'm convinced a little bigger would be better. HTP 105 is still looking like the little wick that maybe can.

The bottom line when it comes to Classic flat braid and HTP is that you have hardly any size options for 3-inch starburst pillars. The wicks are way far apart in this part of the size range, and you're pretty lucky if one of the possibilities is just right.

[topofmurrayhill]

End of 9 for 30 ply and end of burn 6 for HTP 105.

At this rate I guess 30 ply is gonna have a pretty long total burn time, but it will probably leave more wax than I want. HTP 105 is looking feeble at this point.