Feather Palm Testing

[lrbd]

I suspect that CSN 12 may still be the way to go in the end./QUOTE]

I am on a 3rd burn with one now

[topofmurrayhill]

Here's burn 5 for Classic 30-ply and CSN 9. The first photo is 1 hour. The second photo is 3 hours, at which point the 30-ply had a very small flame and I decided to remove it from testing. Just not enough wick to get an interesting result. The last photo is CSN 9 at the end of the 4-hour burn.

[topofmurrayhill]

A nice solid burn 3 for CDN 14.

[lrbd]

Hows it going Top ? I am curious cause the 14 was way too large for me .

Edited April 6, 2010 by lrbd

[topofmurrayhill]

Hows it going Top ? I am curious cause the 14 was way too large for me .

I've noticed a few things about wicking feather palm that I can share with you, but I can't say they apply to starburst until I try it.

For the first several burns, you have a hole in the top of the pillar and a lot of wax hung up above the wick. That's the stage during which you're most likely to have a blowout. Even a smallish wick can form a melt pool wide enough to go through the side at that point.

Eventually the top opens up and looks more like a drinking glass. That's the point at which you're pretty much home free. Depending on the length you've chosen for your test burns, there should be a wick size that works best for getting to that point, while sizes both larger and smaller might blow out.

The idea of wicking to tunnel down the center is a totally different approach. That really requires an undersized wick, at least 2 and easily 3 sizes smaller than the best wick for a shell-consuming burn. In the case of CSN, which burns very efficiently in palm, even size 9 won't do that. I presume you'd need size 7, though I haven't gone down that far yet. In contrast, I tentatively have a 3-inch pillar tested to take CSN 12.

Edited April 6, 2010 by topofmurrayhill

[lrbd]

I tentatively have a 3-inch pillar tested to take CSN 12/QUOTE]

Thank you . So far that is the one I am liking too. I have two that I am testing with CSN 12 now as well. Do you think you will find a difference in the feather vs starburst?

[topofmurrayhill]

Thank you . So far that is the one I am liking too. I have two that I am testing with CSN 12 now as well. Do you think you will find a difference in the feather vs starburst?

The two waxes I've been working with could hardly be more different from one another, so I guess the third could be different too. In the pictures you folks have posted, the starburst burn does look a lot more like feather than like tortoise.

[topofmurrayhill]

Beginning and end of burn 4 for CDN 14. A slightly slower burn this time and the melt pool got a little wide.

Beginning and end of burn 7 for CSN 9. Decent shell-consuming performance from the same wick I can use for a votive. However, I think it will leave a taller wax shell than a larger wick.

Edited April 6, 2010 by topofmurrayhill

[lrbd]

I am on Burn 8 with my csn12 and the shell is starting to melt. I am pretty sure I am giving up on getting a shell without having to do anything. The CSN9 and even the CSN11 seemed to small for me. However I need to try again with your advice on not trimming the wick. The tester(CSN12) I am burning now I followed your advice and never trimmed.

[topofmurrayhill]

Here we have burn 5 for CDN 14 and burn 8 for CSN 9.

In recent burns, the CSN 9 tester has been in the "volcano" stage. I've never had a palm pillar blow out once the shell is getting consumed and that "lava" is running down the inside. You can burn them for long periods without worries at that point, because the melt pools remain more constrained.

The CDN 14 hasn't reached that point yet and seems to be taking a long time. When they are still just hollow tubes like that, the melt pools can get big and I often worry about blowouts.

Earlier today I mentioned that I haven't yet had a tester burn down to an air pocket, but the CDN 14 found one today. It was basically a non-event.

This will be the last burn for the CSN 9. I've pretty much got the idea. It works fine but leaves a lot more unmelted shell behind than CSN 12.

Edited April 7, 2010 by topofmurrayhill

[topofmurrayhill]

This is why using a semi-compatible wick like CDN in palm wax requires such a large size. In this photo, the part of the wick glowing red (and even a little more) is basically just a cinder. At most, 2/3 of the wick is actually intact and working normally.

When you use compatible wicking that resists the acids in palm wax, the size that works in palm is similar to the size that works in paraffin. In contrast, CDNs that work in palm pillars would be serious torches in paraffin pillars.

The way that CDNs deteriorate in palm wax also creates a distortion related to candle diameter. The narrower the candle, the faster the wax level falls, and the closer to their true size the wicks burn. Therefore, a CDN size that burns like a votive wick in a palm pillar would burn like a pillar wick in a palm votive.

[topofmurrayhill]

Size distortion or no, here's CDN 14 at the end of burn 6. It has started to nibble away at the top of the shell and seems to be pretty much working out. I haven't trimmed any of the CDN wicks except before the first lighting. After that they more than trim themselves.

[homecomfort]

Hi Top,

First of all THANK YOU for bringing us along with you on such a great palm wax testing project! I have cases of palm wax that I started testing years ago, got frustrated with the burn (constantly off-center), and have yet to pick it up again. Also, in the little bit of testing I did, I kept getting air pockets in the feather wax and had to poke relief holes literally every 10-15 minutes during the cooling process. There's no doubt though, the finished products are very unique and have stellar hot and cold throw for a pillar candle. At some point I'm sure I'll give the ol' wax another shot.

So, I have a question...did you twist any of your wicks by chance or did you just leave them straight as they arrive from the supplier?

TIA

[topofmurrayhill]

So, I have a question...did you twist any of your wicks by chance or did you just leave them straight as they arrive from the supplier?

I never twist wicks. I use them as God and Man intended.

[topofmurrayhill]

These photos are the end of burn 7 and the end of burn 8 for CSN 14. This wick has worked out pretty well. It's cleaned up the inside of the shell nicely and tends to consume the edges slowly and evenly. I'm only burning 4 hours at a time, but once feather pillars are at this stage, you can burn them for long periods.

[topofmurrayhill]

Burn 9 for CDN 14.

Thanks to Tribalvixen for suggesting this size, or I might not have wicked up. It does a nice job of cleaning up the inside of the pillar and burns for a long time. I could go at least one more burn before starting to think about wax leaking out the bottom (I didn't cut the wick short), whereas I think I stopped most of them at 9 burns.

Nevertheless, I've got the idea and will end this test.

[topofmurrayhill]

Like Heinz CDN, Atkins & Pearce wicking seems to be partially compatible with palm wax. It resists the acidity of the wax well enough that larger wick sizes can work well. These large sizes burn hot when you first light them, then they start to sputter and settle down as the wax fries the tip of the wick.

I'm using feather palm to cover a lot of bases in testing wick compatibility. I've explored Atkins & Pearce products to the extent of successfully wicking a 3-inch feather palm pillar with 36-ply Classic, and unsuccessfully trying to do so with HTP 105. However, I thought HTP deserved a little more attention.

We only have three choices above 105 and I'm starting with 1212 and 1312. These are supposed to be the next size up in performance. However, as you can tell from the yield numbers, they are much thicker than the HTP 126. My first observation is that these little ropes are very unwieldy for wicking a mold securely with metal tape, and probably would have trouble threading through a wick pin hole as well.

[topofmurrayhill]

Sorry, but the 1312 is mislabeled as 1213 in the photos. I just noticed.

These are the first two 4-hour burns.

[1] Start of burn 1. The flames are initially quite large even though the wicks have been trimmed to 1/4 inch. It's characteristic of the partially-compatible wicks that they burn according to their true size when you first light them, then they fade during the first hour.

[2] End of burn 1. The flames have settled down but the melt pools are on the large side for the first burn.

[3] Burn 2 after 3 hours. The 1312 was getting close to blowing out, so I extinguished it. This one is out of the running.

[4] End of burn 2. The 1212 has a large melt pool but hung in to the end.

[topofmurrayhill]

Here is the end of burn 3 and the end of burn 4 for HTP 1212. Looks good to me.

[topofmurrayhill]

End of burn 5. Pretty much a done deal that HTP 1212 works.

[topofmurrayhill]

Burn 6 for HTP 1212, with photos at 1 hour and 4 hours. Now clearly a successful wick.

[topofmurrayhill]

End of burn 7 for HTP 1212.

Before wrapping up the feather palm series, I think I'll melt down the testers for HTP 1212 (good) and HTP 1312 (too big) and make one for HTP 126. Might as well cover that base.

What makes me curious is the difference in construction between the 126 and the 4-digit HTPs. The 1212 and 1213 are designed differently and are thick little ropes, while the 126 is the next one up from HTP 105 by the yield numbers. However, in Atkins & Pearce testing the 126 has a higher burn rate than the other two, which causes a lot of confusion. I think what really happens may just depend on what wax you put them into.

[topofmurrayhill]

Two views of the HTP 1212 tester at the end of burn 8 (4 hours).

[topofmurrayhill]

The final HTP tester for pillar wicking is HTP 126. Photos are from the beginning and end of a 4 hour burn. The wick was trimmed at 1/4" before lighting. As with all the partially palm-compatible wicks, the initial flame is large until the wick has had some time to fizzle down. I haven't been calculating burn rates, but the burn seems slower and the initial melt pool smaller than what I got with HTP 1212 & 1312. In this wax at least, the 126 appears to work as the smaller wick.

[topofmurrayhill]

End of burn 2 for HTP 126.