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LuminousBoutique

Facepalm.

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A few weeks ago I posted about a new business opening up in my town which offers "scent your own" services... I decided to go in last night and take a look around... and I was stunned. NONE of their products are labeled with ingredients.. not a ONE. I mean, they say "olive oil soap" (which he says he bought from some guy in Chicago.. wow, thats specific!) but doesnt have any ingredient on it... their lotions, scrubs, nothing. Nothing labeled at ALL. Just name and weight. WHAT?!

I told him, after he hounded me for 5 minutes to try out, and buy his products that I am a soap maker and just browsing. So then... he wants to do business with me. I let him know I make soy candles, CP soap, liquid soap, bath bombs.. so on and so forth... but the things he already carries but his come from a bucket and he adds FO... mine are all made from scratch. He says "he cant figure out how to make the soap.." Oh my lord.

I cant do business with someone who thinks its OK not to label the products, and cant "figure out" how to make B&B products that he is SELLING! Hes telling customers that it is handmade... when I see the buckets of FBB, liquid soap, and body butter from Chem store right behind the counter! I dont think thats fair to the customer, good business, or safe.

I am not trying to be a jerk about it, because I could use another account.. couldnt we all? But I can not in good concious sell that man a bunch of logs of soap (he wants to private label them and in small print put "made by...") knowing he wont bother to INCI label them, can I? No. And it angers me beyond belief because it could be a good store with just a little effort and KNOWLEDGE. He has a line of candles there but couldnt tell me what kind of wax they were "I dont know, they are wax..." yes. clearly. WHAT KIND? Soy? ParaSoy? Parrafin? Palm? He had no clue. Not a clue. And they werent labeled... so...

This is going to sound horrible, but I feel like it needs to be reported that he is not only breaking the law but is severely ignorant about his own products. He doesnt know how any of it is made, what the ingredients are... its downright dangerous. Problem is, who do you report him to? Its such bad business. I know I'm venting but I left there so red in the face and angry. The one thing I am happy about is that I was very concerned that the location of the store (just one block from the farmers market) would take customers away... but I think they will ask the same questions I did and when they realize he doesnt know the answers, they will hopefully not purchase anything from him.

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Well technically, they don't have to label the ingredients in soap in the US right now. They do, though, have to list on a label the weight. There was a business we know of that used to get soap logs and she would put them out for people to cut off their own slice etc., but the FDA showed up one day and said uh uh she couldn't sell it like that, missing the label weight.

If it's any other bath product, yea, it needs the ingredients labeling.

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the soaps he has kinda shoved in the corner... and he only has a couple, but he wats me to bring in all of mine and do 20-30 bars for him.

But his other products... scrubs, butters, liquid soaps, salts, perfumes... none are labeled. I just couldnt believe it. I told him he needed to label them and he just smirked at me and kinda moved on... I wonder if he knows but is just doesnt care.

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I think he knows and doesn't care.

I'm working for a pretty big italian company, making candles for them, and you'd be surprised how many things I explained to them and they just don't care.

So if big people do it, why not the little fish who wants his cute little shop?

BTW I'm considering dropping my customer in these days. At least it's luck this time my name didn't go on finished products.

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My question is, why would someone open a business that they don't care to know about? Doesn't he realize he looks idiotic by not taking an interest and knowing specifics about his stock? This business doesn't sound like it will be around long. Then you can move in with a huge "New owner, new attitude" banner hanging out front. :cheesy2:

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My question is, why would someone open a business that they don't care to know about? Doesn't he realize he looks idiotic by not taking an interest and knowing specifics about his stock? This business doesn't sound like it will be around long. Then you can move in with a huge "New owner, new attitude" banner hanging out front. :cheesy2:

Problem is that most of the general public is ignorant (not in an offensive meaning) about many aspects.

Not only in candle and BB products, it's the same with technology, if you aren't prepared anyone can tell you senseless things and you just don't know.

So these people sell. Open shops.

Just for an example, I bought a book on candlemaking here in italy, wrote buy who knows anyway someone who is italian, and they tell you to use shoelaces as wicks. And not a word on materials. Just "melt the paraffin". So I have a hard time making people understand what is a good candle, and what is not.

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A shop opened up here a few years ago that didn't have labels on bath & body also. I tried to gently inform the lady, trying to prevent her from getting in trouble with FDA rules. She got very snotty and said that she knew all about the ruling; but her customers preferred no labels. Oh well, I tried. Btw...her soy candles...absolutely no CT and very inconsistent color from one jar to another. I feel so sorry for her customers. I quit my old business in 2004 and the shop went in in about 2007. I am back; but not going to go big enough this time to push her crap out I'm afraid.

Trudi

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The sad fact is most of the public is not going realize any of these infractions. If he runs the rest of the business without boundries it won't be there long. Do you really want your name associated with this business even if it's in small print?

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Do you really want your name associated with this business even if it's in small print?

I agree. You work too hard trying to do a good job and make good products to fool around with a fool like him. He won't be there long...

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I think you guys are right. He says hes been doing shows for 8 years but I dont believe it, he knows nothing and my husband, who is never judgmental of anything, said "that shop is a wreck." I really dont want my name associated with it.

Thank you guys for always having such great advice and being so supportive! What would I do without this board? I'd just be that crazy lady that wont stop talking about soap and candles to strangers... this way I'm just that crazy lady who wont get off the internet. :laugh2:

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the soaps he has kinda shoved in the corner... and he only has a couple, but he wats me to bring in all of mine and do 20-30 bars for him.

But his other products... scrubs, butters, liquid soaps, salts, perfumes... none are labeled. I just couldnt believe it. I told him he needed to label them and he just smirked at me and kinda moved on... I wonder if he knows but is just doesnt care.

Well one call to the FDA and he'll care.

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I remember when you first posted about this shop opening up. I told you then that you should give it some time to see how the shop does. Sounds like his ignorance and noncaring attitude are going to bite his arse one day.

There may be a lot of customers that don't care about the ingredients but I am sure there will be a number of them that do. I have been selling for 4 years now and I know for a fact that there are customers that are picky about the ingredients in their soap and bath products.

When you mentioned he didn't even know what kind of wax his candles are I had to laugh. There are definitely folks out there that are conscious of the types of wax and their characteristics as to ask questions about the candles to find out what he is selling.

He may get away with not properly labeling his products but he is definitely gonna shoot himself in the foot not knowing enough about his products to discuss them.

Eventually word will get around. He will then have to make a choice to learn more, hire someone who does know, or lose customers.

You can at least report him to the BBB. Also, if his business involves customers 'making' or 'customizing' their own products shouldn't he have MSDS sheets on stuff?!! I guess you know the answer to that. I'm sure the FDA would be interested in that.

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Here's what goes through my mind in reading this story:

I feel for the person(s) buying his products and gets a really nasty infection in their eyes or elsewhere. Spends time and money curing it and really has no idea how they contracted it.

Report him now! You will feel really bad if someone gets really sick and you didn't do anything about it. Well, I would.

Cosmetic industry laws are created because of people just like him. By allowing these people to "do what they want" will create more laws for you honest people.

IMO

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I'm going to call... I found a bunch of info on the FDA website and I know most of these things allow anonymous reporting. You guys are right, I would be so sad if I heard of someone getting hurt from his negligence, and his arrogance gives me no confidence in his ability to change his ways. Calling first thing in the AM. I'm glad I didnt give him any of my information now.. I debated in my mind giving him a business card and sample out of my purse (lol yes I carry samples, I'm so lame.) but because of his attitude I refrained. Now I'm happy I did, considering I actually mentioned the labeling problems to him... I dont need him contacting me when/if he gets investigated.

http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm095859.htm

I'm going to start by contacting the complaint coordinator in my state and see where that gets me. Maybe they wont be concerned at all, but I hope they are. And I will let you guys know what they say... it will be interested to see how they react to it, or what they advise me to do.

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I know this has been weighing heavy on you - on the one hand, no one likes to make trouble for someone, but on the other hand, this guy is hazardous - not only to his customers, but every person in the business 'cause it gives all small businesspeople a black eye when someone like this gets away with circumventing the law and makes half-assed products. Best of luck! :)

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You're doing the right thing, as Stella pointed out this is one of the things that gives us bad names, besides being dangerous for customers.

I have some competitor (well they make ugly stuff, but..), making potentially dangerous candles, and no one to report to. So I have to live with it, seeing someone selling more than what I sell, and knowing candles can be hazardous (dried leaves, real coffee beans, real legumes, off-centered wicks).

I wish I could do something, I can't. But you can so go ahead!

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Not to mention if someone has a reaction or gets ill and tries to sue him......we all know he probably also doesn't have insurance either! This guy and this story just sends chills up my back. I'd report him and not think twice! It's people like him that end up costing the rest of us more money for insurance, etc.

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A few weeks ago I posted about a new business opening up in my town which offers "scent your own" services... I decided to go in last night and take a look around... and I was stunned. NONE of their products are labeled with ingredients.. not a ONE. I mean, they say "olive oil soap" (which he says he bought from some guy in Chicago.. wow, thats specific!) but doesnt have any ingredient on it... their lotions, scrubs, nothing. Nothing labeled at ALL. Just name and weight. WHAT?!

I told him, after he hounded me for 5 minutes to try out, and buy his products that I am a soap maker and just browsing. So then... he wants to do business with me. I let him know I make soy candles, CP soap, liquid soap, bath bombs.. so on and so forth... but the things he already carries but his come from a bucket and he adds FO... mine are all made from scratch. He says "he cant figure out how to make the soap.." Oh my lord.

I cant do business with someone who thinks its OK not to label the products, and cant "figure out" how to make B&B products that he is SELLING! Hes telling customers that it is handmade... when I see the buckets of FBB, liquid soap, and body butter from Chem store right behind the counter! I dont think thats fair to the customer, good business, or safe.

I am not trying to be a jerk about it, because I could use another account.. couldnt we all? But I can not in good concious sell that man a bunch of logs of soap (he wants to private label them and in small print put "made by...") knowing he wont bother to INCI label them, can I? No. And it angers me beyond belief because it could be a good store with just a little effort and KNOWLEDGE. He has a line of candles there but couldnt tell me what kind of wax they were "I dont know, they are wax..." yes. clearly. WHAT KIND? Soy? ParaSoy? Parrafin? Palm? He had no clue. Not a clue. And they werent labeled... so...

This is going to sound horrible, but I feel like it needs to be reported that he is not only breaking the law but is severely ignorant about his own products. He doesnt know how any of it is made, what the ingredients are... its downright dangerous. Problem is, who do you report him to? Its such bad business. I know I'm venting but I left there so red in the face and angry. The one thing I am happy about is that I was very concerned that the location of the store (just one block from the farmers market) would take customers away... but I think they will ask the same questions I did and when they realize he doesnt know the answers, they will hopefully not purchase anything from him.

I say, leave him alone. This is his livelihood and I would not want to be responsible for having some one lose their income. Their are a lot of people who buy base products and label as their own. Sorry but maybe you should get a job as an inspector then you can report him. Geesseee

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Sharon- its not that I disapprove of him buying bases and using them.. its that he is not labeling ANYTHING in his shop. Customers could have allergies to ingredients and they would never know, because the ingredients aren't listed. His products simply say, for example, "lip balm, grapefruit". No wt, nothing. And... when you ask him "whats in this" he has no clue. He is selling candles and he doesn't even know what kind of wax they are.

Its completely irresponsible. It has nothing to do with the bases, except that he has no clue whats IN them. I think bases can be a really nice tool for us... but only if we are educated about what those bases actually contain and we can express that to our customers if they ask. The fact that he KNOWS his products need to be labeled, yet doesnt bother, shows just how much he "cares" about his livelihood. If someone sues him because they end up with a terrible infection or allergic reaction, it would likely be far more devastating to his business than being reported for not properly labeling his cosmetics.

Reporting him wont guarantee he will lose the business, they will likely just warn him to shape up- and I dont see anything wrong with that. Its his job in the first place to get it right. I called and emailed, but havent received a response yet. So we'll see if the FDA guy here even cares. He might not.. if thats the case, oh well. If he does care, and checks up on it- the business owner is only getting whats coming to him for breaking the law. I find it incredibly unfair that he be allowed to operate in a cheap and dangerous way while the rest of us follow the rules.

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Sharon- its not that I disapprove of him buying bases and using them.. its that he is not labeling ANYTHING in his shop. Customers could have allergies to ingredients and they would never know, because the ingredients aren't listed. His products simply say, for example, "lip balm, grapefruit". No wt, nothing. And... when you ask him "whats in this" he has no clue. He is selling candles and he doesn't even know what kind of wax they are.

Its completely irresponsible. It has nothing to do with the bases, except that he has no clue whats IN them. I think bases can be a really nice tool for us... but only if we are educated about what those bases actually contain and we can express that to our customers if they ask. The fact that he KNOWS his products need to be labeled, yet doesnt bother, shows just how much he "cares" about his livelihood. If someone sues him because they end up with a terrible infection or allergic reaction, it would likely be far more devastating to his business than being reported for not properly labeling his cosmetics.

Reporting him wont guarantee he will lose the business, they will likely just warn him to shape up- and I dont see anything wrong with that. Its his job in the first place to get it right. I called and emailed, but havent received a response yet. So we'll see if the FDA guy here even cares. He might not.. if thats the case, oh well. If he does care, and checks up on it- the business owner is only getting whats coming to him for breaking the law. I find it incredibly unfair that he be allowed to operate in a cheap and dangerous way while the rest of us follow the rules.

I still would not have called. I just can't say that I'm so right or informed about what I do that I could have reported anyone. You obviously feel more confident than I do. JMHO

I do report the guy in back for treating his dogs like shit. Does any body care???? hell no....

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I would have called it in. This guy needs a wake up call. He should consider himself lucky if the FDA does contact him and advise him. He could really be in trouble with our litigious society and lose his biz. Better to be warned than lose your biz.

And what about his customers? Don't they have the right to know whats in their products?!!! Holey moley-- this guy doesn't even know what type wax is in his candles let alone his other products ingredients. He really, really, needs a wake up call! Literally!!

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