Can someone clarify this?

[Ravens]

I've read pages and pages about adding FO to the melted wax, read a lot about what many think is the best temperature range, etc. etc.

Today I was reading candle making info on a supplier site (one of the "biggies"), and they suggest to add the FO just before pouring, or else the fragrance may evaporate somewhat. Ok, got that.

But... (1) I read that if the temp isn't high enough the FO will not incorporate. And (2) what about waxes like the GB415? Most expert chandlers suggest pouring it around 100 degrees, when it's slushy; so should I add the FO around 100 degrees? Wouldn't such low temp interefere with the FO/wax bonding?

Thought of asking this supplier, but then decided to check with you first and get your opinions. Thanks!:smiley2:

[topofmurrayhill]

Trust me, nobody can clarify this.

Everyone has their way of adding FO and all different techniques seem to work, at least for some people. You have to try and see what works for you.

Here are the only facts I can offer you about this:

Adding FO at a higher temperature versus a low temperature makes absolutely no difference as far as affecting the strength of the FO. It doesn't "burn off" or anything like that.

It's very very rare to meet an FO that doesn't mix with soy wax. When it mixes in visually, it's incorporated, whether at high or low temperature. There's no additional invisible process that happens.

The treatment that soy wax gets during cooling and before pouring can have a lot of different effects on how it sets up. In that respect, adding the FO at the last minute is liable to have some kind of effect on your results - probably from the sudden cooling. That technique may work for you, or maybe you'll prefer to do it a different way.

Edited December 3, 2009 by topofmurrayhill

[Ravens]

Thank you! And here I was, mistakenly thinking that many, many FO would not mix properly in soy and would end up not throwing!

So in practice I could add the FO below 150 and still make strong scented tarts?

You know, with some waxes I'll add an FO, let the tarts cure, and then no HT - so disappointing! Or else they have a good CT and no HT. Then I'll use a different wax, same FO, same amounts, and it works. What a mystery....

I hope my post will not cause other members to argue too much amongst themselves! :tiptoe:

[candlesprite7]

Just have to remember that some FO's "throw" better in some waxes than others.

You're doing fine, that's what testing is all about. You'll figure out what works best for you.

Keep it up!

[Stella1952]

add the FO just before pouringor else the fragrance may evaporate somewhat

What does "just before pouring" mean? That conjures up images of some folks adding FO and cooking it for awhile while others dump in the FO, and pour seconds later or something... If I prewarm the FO, I add it to the wax at a few degrees above my desired pouring temp. If I don't prewarm the FO, I add it to wax that is hotter than my pouring temp and stir until the pouring temp is achieved... Either way, I'm adding it "just before pouring"... You'd really have to cook it for a while for the FO to evaporate noticably...

if the temp isn't high enough the FO will not incorporate

What does "incorporate" mean? If the FO is well-stirred into the wax and it does not visibly separate, it's as incorporated as it's gonna get. People pour soy wax from around 185°F-115°F... I haven't noticed more low-temp pourers reporting problems with hot throw than mid or high-temp pourers...

Personally, I think some urban candlemaking legends have developed and persisted even though they have been disproved many times over...

Each wax throws a little differently - some FOs excel in our favorite wax while others leave us cold. Some waxes have more trouble with HT in general than do others... All FOs are not created equal - just because a FO has the same name from 10 different suppliers does NOT mean that those 10 FOs will all smell & throw the same even when used in the same wax!! Suppliers do not all get their FOs from the same distributors/manufacturers. Some suppliers add dilutants to the FOs; some don't.

With tarts, melting the wax at different temps may produce different HT results.

As candlesprite said, keep testing and you will find what works best for YOU. Keeping good notes is the single most valuable thing you can do! After a while, you can look back at your notes and may notice certain patterns & trends that will lead you to the best combinations & procedures for YOUR products.

[Ravens]

A big "Thank you" to all of you! I'll go back to playing with my waxes. Trying to find one that will throw a new FO I bought last week; it's called "Voodoo Love" and I got it from Candlewic. I put one ounce in a blend of JW6800 and Ecosoya PB. It smells so good and "different" OOB, so I tried it last night, but it's too light, plus the tarts look too soft.

Will try mixing it with straight CBL 129, and then with 415, and a third batch with KY parasoy for tarts. Gee, and I thought testing was only for candles!!! What an eye-opener this expensive hobby is!

[Stella1952]

OOOO - VooDoo love! Heck yeah! That's a good thrower for me in both C3 & palm waxes! It needs a few days to cure, but has a very pleasing, heavy scent.

I just use my regular waxes for tarts - either soy votive wax or C3 (a little soft) or pillar palm wax. I don't find that I need to mix waxes to get good results.

[Ravens]

Stella, I have C-3 and both feather and glass glow palm; think I'll heat up the feather palm wax to around 200 degrees, then add the FO around 180 and pour. What do you think? Or should I try the GG? No, never mind the glass glow palm, just remembered the last time I tried it, it came out of the molds all crumbled...:rolleyes2

[soy327]

Hi Ravens, I use the feather and starburst for tarts and votives. I heat it to 200 pour it in a oven warmed pyrex measuring cup (about 200 degrees) put in my color, then the FO, stir for 2 min and pour. It comes out beautiful.:yay:clean up is a breeze with hot water and soap. Palm wax can be very hard to wash out of anything.

Have you used the 415? If so how do you like it? and do you pour at a lower temp or higher temp?

Linda:)

[Ravens]

I've used the GB 415 several times, for many FO. It works very well for most of them. I heat it to approx. 170 degrees, add the dye, shut off the source of heat (I use a Presto pot) and add the FO around 150 degrees. I wait until it's close to 100 degree before I pour it. Sometimes, though, even pouring at 100 degrees does not help with the top (not smooth). But I'm not using it to make candles, so a smooth top isn't that important to me.:smiley2:

[soy327]

I use the preato pot also. I heat to 180, no color, pour into measuring cup, add FO, cool to 140 and pour. I smooth out the top with heat gun lightly. I don't care anymore about a smooth top, the scent throw and clean burn mean more to me now. I used to think it needed to look really nice and smooth on the top but I can't get that from 100% soy. Unless someone has a trick they want to share, the CT and HT is great. Thanks for the reply.

Linda

[chuck_35550]

I add color and stir about 2 minutes. Add fo and stir about 2 minutes. Pour at the temp that your wax likes best (mine is 185-190 degrees in warmed jars). I stir my wax after pouring one or two candles, just to make sure that my fo is evenly distributed. Top hit the nail on the head when he said no one can give you a clear answer to your question. I don't believe that the wax and fo incorporates on a molecular level but rather they just temporarily blend together (so stir that wax). HTH.

Steve

[Ravens]

Steve, that temp is high:shocked2:

Do a lot of waxes need to be poured at 190 degrees? What would happen if you poured your wax at a lower temp, like 150, for example? Just trying to learn here........ and there sure is a lot to learn!

[Stella1952]

I'll heat up the feather palm wax to around 200 degrees, then add the FO around 180

Palm wax likes to be poured at a higher temp than soy wax - a lot higher! If you add cold FO to palm wax at 180°F, it can drop the temp below the point where great crystals form. I'd suggest adding the FO at 195°-200°F (if you do not prewarm the FO, which is a real good idea during wintertime) - chances are, it'll drop the temp to about 185°F which is a good temp to pour palm wax. Much cooler than that and it won't crystallize much... Keep the little tarts warm, too - they cool off so quickly - especially at this time of year!

Glass Glow is NOT meant for molds, as you found out! It's meant to stick like glue to containers! If you do splash some on your clothes, etc., just scrape off what you can with a butter knife (non-serrated blade), then iron it out between newspaper sections. You may need to treat the spot with Grease Relief or Shout to remove any oil stain that remains. Neither soy nor palm wax is water soluble (the MSDS says so!) - a good grease-cutting detergent will help emulsify it and hot water will melt it, but the stuff does NOT mix with water. Ya don't want it down your pipes when it resolidifies! May not be as bad as paraffin, but it still isn't a good idea to wash much of it down the drain.