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Palm Kernal Oil


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Has anyone tried adding palm kernal oil to their candles? I have some left over from soapmaking and was thinking of adding this instead of coconut oil.

Do you think palm kernal oil would have some advantages over the coconut oil?

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Top, What would be the advantage? With Palm Kernal oil. I have been blending coconut wax in with my soy wax (not the cocnut oil) what would you say the difference is between the CW and CO? It's going good and I am finding the 415/CW so far I like best. Just getting the wicking down. :laugh2::laugh2:That's another story.

Linda

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I was just thinking that in your shoes I would be inclined to try it, because I'm always looking to discover something -- so that's why I was being encouraging about it. However, there's no telling what the advantage would be. There might be none at all.

We don't really know what it is about coconut oil that's potentially advantageous when used as an additive in soy candles. It has certain triglycerides that don't occur in soy wax at all. Lauric and myristic are saturated fatty acids that are shorter than the palmitic and stearic that you find in soy. We take advantage of those to make bubbly soap. It also has some even shorter fatty acids that are liquid at room temperature.

PKO (not regular palm oil) is the only other common oil that has exactly those qualities. The only difference that is that it has less of the short liquidy triglycerides and more stearic glycerides, which makes it a harder oil.

I guess the only thing you could predict about the effect is that it will be similar but different. :)

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I don't know what the exact differences would be, but it would be a totally different thing because those are utterly different oils. Hardly any similarity at all.

The palm oil that might be used as a raw material to make Crisco isn't even palm oil anymore once you get it. My understanding of the current production process is that it would be trans-esterified with a much softer oil containing a lot of polyunsaturated fatty acids. That would solidify the whole thing without creating trans-fats like hydrogenation would.

JMO, but I wouldn't use Crisco for anything. The fatty acid profile is published from time to time, but you can never be sure because they change the ingredients and production process from time to time, sometimes radically. The product might seem consistent for cooking purposes but not necessarily for other applications.

I think that too much of it is polyunsaturated, which isn't good for making soap. From the literature I've seen, that doesn't seem to be a good thing for candlemaking either.

Adding palm to soy is an interesting subject, but there are various options for how to approach it and I haven't had time to figure out how the commercial blends might be made.

Edited by topofmurrayhill
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Hi all, this is interesting. I have made several 30/70 soy/palm for a friend that just loves them, I put the oder eliminator fragrance (She smokes and swears by it). Its been a while since winter has just really set in here and now she is burning the 2nd one I made. It burned quit nice. I spent Thanksgiving over there and she had it burning. I right down recipe cards with the persons name so I don't forget how to make it, what wick etc. I'm sure I will be making more after the 1st of the New year. They still have a nice crystal pattern, even with the soy added, and I haven't used color in hers.

I'm wondering if the palm steric would be the same as PKO? And how would it differ from the GG palm wax. Doesn't that just make the candle harder? :confused: I've used beeswax for a slower burn. Never used anything else but the GG.:yay:

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I'm wondering if the palm steric would be the same as PKO? And how would it differ from the GG palm wax.

Palm oil and palm kernel oil are completely different, although they come from the same fruit.

Palm oil can be separated into harder and softer oils, which are called fractions. It can also be processed to derive chemicals such as palm stearic.

Palm wax is a blend of palm oil fractions and derivatives, which can be varied to produce waxes with different properties.

Edited by topofmurrayhill
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Hi all, this is interesting. I have made several 30/70 soy/palm for a friend that just loves them, I put the oder eliminator fragrance (She smokes and swears by it). Its been a while since winter has just really set in here and now she is burning the 2nd one I made. It burned quit nice. I spent Thanksgiving over there and she had it burning. I right down recipe cards with the persons name so I don't forget how to make it, what wick etc. I'm sure I will be making more after the 1st of the New year. They still have a nice crystal pattern, even with the soy added, and I haven't used color in hers.

I'm wondering if the palm steric would be the same as PKO? And how would it differ from the GG palm wax. Doesn't that just make the candle harder? :confused: I've used beeswax for a slower burn. Never used anything else but the GG.:yay:

So you used Glass Glow at 70% and plain Soy at 30% and still got a crystal effect? I think I'll give it a try. Did you use the same wick as you do with the GG?

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I'm wondering if the palm steric would be the same as PKO? And how would it differ from the GG palm wax. Doesn't that just make the candle harder?

Palm stearic acid is not the same thing as palm oil of any kind. One is an oil; the other is stearic acid derived from palm oil. Stearic acid does increase hardness, increases rate of contraction and in some cases enhances scent throw. It should not be used with Glass Glow because that would defeat the container properties of GG (ie. sticking to the container).

When mixing palm wax and soy wax, first one has to ask oneself are you trying to make more stable soy wax or are you trying to make softer palm wax... If the latter, then the crystal preservation would be important. If the former, the softer properties of soy wax should be protected. It matters whether container blends are used or pillar blends. Before just mixing for the sake of mixing, it's good to have an idea of WHY you are mixing stuff together. Are you mixing for grins or are you mixing to improve some characteristic of the base wax?

Mixing container palm wax with soy wax has nothing to do with mixing palm kernel oil with soy. We are talking about a very small amount of palm oil used as an additive to stabilize the crystal formation in the soy wax, not mixing different waxes in large percentages. That's a whole 'nother topic.

Pixie, palm oil seems to do a better job than coconut oil in my tests. I did not use palm kernel oil, which is different from regular palm oil and the stuff that I used. I have read that palm oil has a more stable crystal formation than does soybean oil, which is how it helps with stablizing the crystal formation in soy wax. As to how that happens chemically is beyond my pay grade. Start with 1 teaspoonful PP and see what you think... it ain't gonna blow up, ya know. :D

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Sharon, I used LX wicks They did good.:yay:

Stella, It was for grins:yay:Cocktail hour somebody said why don't you mix the two, so I did, actually it turned out great. Haven't made one since last spring good thing for recipe cards:yay:

Now, tell me about the palm oil, I only do containers, unless I'm making tarts and votives out of the starburst or feather palm. Are you talking about putting it in the GG or soy.? Sorry I'm tired tonight. Can you go into more detail.

Linda:)

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I tried pko and it sooted like crazy and made wicking tough. Palm worked quite well at very small amounts (1/2 tsp pp) in my 70/30 soy/paraffin blend. I don't use additives unless my wax has problems due to the quality of the soy. Hard, brittle wax usually needs some help by adding petrolatum (I think that's what its called, real sticky gummy stuff) and if the soy is real soft then add coconut or palm. HTH

Steve

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I tried pko and it sooted like crazy and made wicking tough.

That's an interesting result. How much did you use? People have been adding coconut oil in very small amounts. Considering their similarities, I wouldn't expect that comparable amounts of PKO would do anything that dramatic.

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Now, tell me about the palm oil, I only do containers, unless I'm making tarts and votives out of the starburst or feather palm. Are you talking about putting it in the GG or soy.?

I assume the OP was talking about soy as I have never known anyone to use it in palm wax... We use CO in soy as an additive to help stabilize the crystal structure of it. People add palm wax or paraffin to it for the same reason...

There's a lot of info on palm and other interesting oils used as additives out there on the web... I have read reports of folks using palm, olive, canola, coconut, cottonseed, castor bean (caster oil) and soybean oils, but no really good test designs and followup reports. Have also read a little that suggests emulsifiers, such as lecithin, are good. Tocopherol is rumoured to have good effects, although I wonder if it is because of the antioxidative properties or the carrier oil... I haven't tried fish oil yet.... Might be interesting so long as it didn't make the candle smell like catfish... I also wonder if anyone has tried old-fashioned lard...

Then there are all those interesting & unusual soaping oils & butters one could test...:whoohoo:

There's never a good oleochemist around when ya need one... :waiting:

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So far I am testing the soy waxes I get from peak, they have a good selection and I can pick it up, No Shipping:laugh2::laugh2:I have been testing for about 6 weeks (Although I have been making candles for 1 yr)and am finding the info about the USA and CO to be the best for me. It's really cold here and I am finding it challenging:shocked2: Making some good combo's with the info all of you have given and spending hours searching the soy wax info.

Thanks to all of you for being here:yay:and spending your time helping.

Edited by soy327
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I tried 1/2 tsp and 1 tsp pp in a 70/30 blend (soy/paraffin). Used cdn wicks and burned for about 3 hours. The wax set up very hard but adhered well to the wall of the container. I only tried several wicks (cdn and zincs) but was not pleased with the heavy sooting and the uneven burn. Maybe the pko is slightly denser than the palm oil. I never thought about lard but I did try beef tallow (ugh).

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Maybe the pko is slightly denser than the palm oil.

PKO actually has no similarity to palm oil. It's extremely similar to coconut oil though. Below is how their fatty acid profiles compare, on the average.

Coconut Oil 76

9% caprylic

6% capric

46% lauric

17% myristic

8% palmitic

3% stearic

6% oleic

2% linoleic

Palm Kernel Oil

4% caprylic

3% capric

46% lauric

16% myristic

8% palmitic

3% stearic

13% oleic

2% linoleic

Palm Kernel Flakes

4% caprylic

3% capric

46% lauric

16% myristic

8% palmitic

13% stearic

5% oleic

0% linoleic

Palm Oil

1% myristic

45% palmitic

6% stearic

40% oleic

8% linoleic

Edited by topofmurrayhill
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