wicking advice and my test burn - images included

[Stella1952]

I don't know where you got that info, but none of the patent literature (including Murphy's for Cargill) suggests that C3 or any other soy wax product contains lecithin. Monoglycerides and suchlike are the additives of choice for candle wax. That's why we add them rather than lecithin to plain soy.

Check post #22 in this thread for where I got the idea about lecithin being an ingredient of NatureWax C3.

I find a lot of what you've been writing very confusing. If they only sell soy stuff, then their Universal Additive is the correct stuff. That's what soy suppliers have always called it. USA is an acronym that was made up here on CraftServer.

Whether the acronym was coined at CT or not is immaterial. JBN sold it as USA as do the couple of other sources I have used for it. Simply because a supplier handles ONLY soy doesn't mean they may not have gotten the *other stuff* used for paraffin... It was my understanding that UA and USA are different substances... Are you saying they are the same thing?

It's not even ideal to have candles that will light up like torches if you don't trim them to 1/4" before lighting, but that at least has become generally acceptable. Having to trim wicks to 1/8" is just unrealistic.

Then what IS "ideal," Top? When making recommendations to customers, etc. we have to start SOMEWHERE... Should we just tell folks to trim their wicks to whatever length they wish or should we suggest they trim them to a certain length for best results, based upon our personal experiences with veggie waxes? 'Cause that's exactly what I stated - my recommendation for the length I have found to give me the best results... between 1/8"-1/4"... Whether you find that unrealistic or not, it works real well for me. If that length doesn't work for you when burning your veggie wax candles, what length have you found that works better?

I make only soy & palm wax candles; however I do not consider myself any kind of an "expert" in veggie waxes. My amateur comments were directed toward trying to help nadiap (the OP) with her testing. They are my observations, opinions and random thoughts based on my adventures with veggie waxes and may differ from those of others, including you, Top. I would rather try to help her figure out what's happening with her candles than argue and reexplain my remarks to you!:rolleyes2

Have no idea what that gunky stuff is made of - maybe you guys can clue me in - it's an accumulation of something - the CO..... particles from the wick itself maybe? sooty stuff - though no soot inside jar ?

I can't see if the same stuff is in the bottom of the purple candle... was it there, too? If so, that would make me tend to think it might have been stuff from the copha...

At least now I know that the CO I used, doesn't work and I won't be using it again - so another lesson learned.

Please don't confuse the copha with coconut oil - they ARE different materials and it might be worthwhile for you to test some *real* coconut oil rather than the coconut butter copha stuff... The CO many of us use comes in a bottle as it's only semisolid at room temp 72°F. When the temp is higher than that, it pours like a clear liquid oil. Perhaps if you cannot find it at a grocery store locally, you could order some from a soapmaking supplier...

I have a new set of testers ready to rest tomorrow. Received some Stearic Acid and used that as an additive and will test with a CND8 and a HTP104 instead...Not sure if people would like to see the results of my next test, I may be filling up the board with a lot of rubbish :-) but I will if anyone is interested.

Oh yes, please post test pics! Like others, I am finding this fascinating!!!

[topofmurrayhill]

Whether the acronym was coined at CT or not is immaterial. JBN sold it as USA as do the couple of other sources I have used for it. Simply because a supplier handles ONLY soy doesn't mean they may not have gotten the *other stuff* used for paraffin

Suppliers don't buy Universal Additive. The additives you are concerned about are two completely different substances with different names, purchased by the suppliers from completely different sources. If you are buying Universal Additive from a soy suppliers, you're getting the right stuff. There's no possibility of a mixup.

Then what IS "ideal," Top? When making recommendations to customers, etc. we have to start SOMEWHERE... Should we just tell folks to trim their wicks to whatever length they wish

You tell them to trim to 1/4" to conform with the instructions that have appeared on virtually all candles always. There's a reason there are devices out there that automatically trim wicks to that length.

If your "experience with veggie waxes" indicates that conventional instructions for candle burning should be revised, I would suggest going back to the drawing board. I have certainly found that an extra-short wick trim is a handy shortcut for getting certain candle designs to burn well, but I'd certainly not sell those.

When you ask what is ideal, that would obviously be for the wick not to require trimming before being lit. After all, many people don't follow directions or think much about how to burn candles and won't trim the wick at all. Many people here make stuff that will burn crappy for those people. Designing candles that require the wick to be trimmed even shorter for a good burn is pushing this problem to the extreme.

They are my observations, opinions and random thoughts based on my adventures with veggie waxes and may differ from those of others, including you, Top. I would rather try to help her figure out what's happening with her candles than argue and reexplain my remarks to you!:rolleyes2

If I see remarks that seem wrong, bad, or muddled then I'll point them out. Sorry if that's inconvenient, but you don't have to explain yourself to me. Explain to everyone if you want to. I just think what's most helpful here is advice that's clear, simple and factual.

[Circle]

Ok, final results are in and I'm abandoning the rest of the test :-)

After 4th burn - image speaks for itself.

After todays 5th burn after 4hrs...

Stella - I have been trimming the wicks before the start of the burn btw :-) What you see is the results after the burn.

Have no idea what that gunky stuff is made of - maybe you guys can clue me in - it's an accumulation of something - the CO..... particles from the wick itself maybe? sooty stuff - though no soot inside jar ?

The CDN burned the jar the cleanest, but much too fast and leaves that residue. Though the jar itself wasn't too hot to the touch - a fraction warmer than the 93.

The 93 didn't do a good job in the middle stages - started off ok, but fizzled - as you can see leaving the hangup on the sides and didn't clean itself higher up either.

I have a new set of testers ready to rest tomorrow. Received some Stearic Acid and used that as an additive and will test with a CND8 and a HTP104 instead.

Not sure if people would like to see the results of my next test, I may be filling up the board with a lot of rubbish :-) but I will if anyone is interested.

PS: Top - I've tested a variety of different wicks in these rotten containers, and am willing to try anything - whether it's mixing the waxes I have, or adding an additive of some type to get them to work. At least now I know that the CO I used, doesn't work and I won't be using it again - so another lesson learned.

I doubt (from my limited experience admittedly, whether I would have had different results had I not added FO with these containers.

There must be a way to wick them correctly, cause I've seen many being sold locally (market stalls etc), or else, they are selling stuff that hasn't really be tested... and many with the FOs I used in this test ... ah well, I'm doing something wrong - and that's where the continual testing will sort out I guess.

Note: Though this was a disaster - I'm happy to say that I have some feathered palm wax pillars & votives completed that look terrific. I'll post those up in a new thread - I'm quite proud of them <lol>

I think you should try wick 2 sizes down. I believe that you should never have a melt pool that is too large, if not at all for the first few burns. As long as the candle burns nicely and there is not much wax left at he bottom, the jar stays cool enough, then it is pretty idiot proof but at the same time gives you a good candle.